Questions & Mysteries Did Zoro lose against Enel
- Thread starter Tai long
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This is my last or 2nd to last comment we are starting to talk about the same topics this few posts tbh.
First when i read your comment you seem to misunderstand my understanding of Zoro's promise.
I explained to you before but i will explain again i think Zoro was talking about swordsman fights because he wants to become the WSS not WSM. So he didnt break his promise with losing to Enel. Zoro's loss to Enel wasnt a cheap trick by Enel too he genuinely lost to him.
Gaunlet thing is nonsense because with that logic so many fights would be for nothing and it starts with Luffy's most recent defeat.
Luffy is tired and damaged but its still a defeat. It will be the same with Kaido too.
Luffy aint only got damaged from Kaido. You forgetting Apoo, Ulti, Queen and others. He was damaged already when he was fighting Kaido.
His loss counts Gauntlet thing isnt changing anything for him.
Also regarding King; he can be damaged in his flame form but its very very hard. Even if its pis he is still damaged before the Zoro fight.
Also after AdvCoC Zoro would have cut King at some point too. King is clearly damaged even if you like it or not but Oda draw it this way.
First when i read your comment you seem to misunderstand my understanding of Zoro's promise.
I explained to you before but i will explain again i think Zoro was talking about swordsman fights because he wants to become the WSS not WSM. So he didnt break his promise with losing to Enel. Zoro's loss to Enel wasnt a cheap trick by Enel too he genuinely lost to him.
Gaunlet thing is nonsense because with that logic so many fights would be for nothing and it starts with Luffy's most recent defeat.
Luffy is tired and damaged but its still a defeat. It will be the same with Kaido too.
Luffy aint only got damaged from Kaido. You forgetting Apoo, Ulti, Queen and others. He was damaged already when he was fighting Kaido.
His loss counts Gauntlet thing isnt changing anything for him.
Also regarding King; he can be damaged in his flame form but its very very hard. Even if its pis he is still damaged before the Zoro fight.
Also after AdvCoC Zoro would have cut King at some point too. King is clearly damaged even if you like it or not but Oda draw it this way.
And I told you Enel three shots him at worst... or one shots him with higher volt anyway. You're way too fucking butthurt over it.
"Complain to the author" what? Why is that always your excuse? Zoro lost against Mihawk - but I'm slowly grasping why you're the blacksheep among the Zoro fandom. Btw, you only chose author's words when it's convinent, huh? When Nami says "Everyone are defeated", it's suddenly "B-but gauntlet!" but when it comes to Zoro's loss count, the author's words in chapter 1037 suddenly matter?
"Complain to the author" what? Why is that always your excuse? Zoro lost against Mihawk - but I'm slowly grasping why you're the blacksheep among the Zoro fandom. Btw, you only chose author's words when it's convinent, huh? When Nami says "Everyone are defeated", it's suddenly "B-but gauntlet!" but when it comes to Zoro's loss count, the author's words in chapter 1037 suddenly matter?
Off Topic but this thread reminded me of something (need another thread I guess)
During the first half of Grand Line, Luffy victories against major opponents are just plot convenience.
Infact, Luffy never surpassed his major opponents during this time until he learnt haki.
Luffy vs Croc - Luffy never surpassed croc until he learnt haki.
He lost twice. Was able to defeat croc because of blood.
What if there is no blood dripping all over his body? What if he has no water nearby? And, even if he has water then water gets dried up pretty quickly.
He never surpassed croc until he learnt haki during TS.
Luffy vs Enel - yes he won and has elemental advantage but did he really surpassed enel in strength until TS? Nope
Both croc and enel should have been introduced after haki.
Luffy vs Lucci - Ya I think this is the only major fight which actually gives impression of Luffy surpassing his opponent.
Luffy vs Moriah - Goes without saying
During the first half of Grand Line, Luffy victories against major opponents are just plot convenience.
Infact, Luffy never surpassed his major opponents during this time until he learnt haki.
Luffy vs Croc - Luffy never surpassed croc until he learnt haki.
He lost twice. Was able to defeat croc because of blood.
What if there is no blood dripping all over his body? What if he has no water nearby? And, even if he has water then water gets dried up pretty quickly.
He never surpassed croc until he learnt haki during TS.
Luffy vs Enel - yes he won and has elemental advantage but did he really surpassed enel in strength until TS? Nope
Both croc and enel should have been introduced after haki.
Luffy vs Lucci - Ya I think this is the only major fight which actually gives impression of Luffy surpassing his opponent.
Luffy vs Moriah - Goes without saying
We will see about who gets the credit for Kaido. 
Zoro's promise isnt about swordsmen, your whole understanding is wrong...
Gauntlet isnt a nonsense. You are simply making mere clashes into major fights.
Clash with Ulti is not a major fight like vs Braham or vs Ohm.
You cant debunk me with nonsense.
Zoro's promise isnt about swordsmen, your whole understanding is wrong...
Gauntlet isnt a nonsense. You are simply making mere clashes into major fights.
Clash with Ulti is not a major fight like vs Braham or vs Ohm.
You cant debunk me with nonsense.
Each time the Villain had to fight through many Gauntlets and MC came to challenge him yet again and many times LOST.
The problem is not that you think Zoro didn't lose. Its that Oda double standards and contradiction in this setup. He will allow the Protagonist to suffer many defeats and not define them as losses and most of the antagonist only need to be defeated once with PIS.
The Gauntlet defense argument is baseless and also don't make sense just like people claiming this promise only applies to Swordsman.
The best argument said here regarding this in defense of These "Defeats" is that Zoro would have lost regardless if his condition was good or not. Its over kill for him to fight Enel at that time. Its like facing Mihawk because how out matched he was it didn't matter Zoro's condition or when facing Kizaru despite his condition it wouldn't matter even if Zoro was healthy facing Kizaru at that time. This is best defense argument. Zoro stood 0 chance at those times.
Like I've been saying Oda's inconsistency, favoritism and double standards, when it comes to not counting losses as losses for protagonist and for the antagonist he has to resort to PIS for their single defeats after having fought many gauntlets.
Oda is a terrible Battle manga writer and has no sense of power levels and scaling and abilities and how to use them. This is the problem.
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This is my last comment about this topic.
Zoro lost to a swordsman Mihawk. After his loss he swore to never loss again and he wants to become WSS. It makes sense that he gives his promise to never losing against swordsman.
Also it also matches with his comment to Cabaji too.
Getting damaged before the fight doesnt mean that you didnt lost. Luffy was nerfed with Kaido no matter what. He took damage from different opponents before that fight. And he still lost.
When Luffy fall from Onigashima we were saying that he lost.
When Zoro beats King even if he is damaged before we said that King is lost.
And i am saying even if Enel beats Zoro even if he is damaged before he is lost.
Zoro lost to a swordsman Mihawk. After his loss he swore to never loss again and he wants to become WSS. It makes sense that he gives his promise to never losing against swordsman.
Also it also matches with his comment to Cabaji too.
Getting damaged before the fight doesnt mean that you didnt lost. Luffy was nerfed with Kaido no matter what. He took damage from different opponents before that fight. And he still lost.
When Luffy fall from Onigashima we were saying that he lost.
When Zoro beats King even if he is damaged before we said that King is lost.
And i am saying even if Enel beats Zoro even if he is damaged before he is lost.
And Zoro one shots Enel... Pointless either way.
Gauntlet didnt break Zoro's promise, author has confirmed it.
If you disagree, you have to complain to the author, because it was he who said so.
I argued the same thing before the author confirmed it so wrong again, Sen-chan.
Nami saying that everyone is defeated doesnt change the fact that Zoro ran a gauntlet.
You are literally jumping all over the place unable to form an argument...
Nobody except Luffybros gets a bright idea that Luffy is stronger than those villains in the past just because plot dragged his ass to victory. No, I know that Zoro was defeated but he didnt lose in a way that breaks his promise of never losing again. Beating an exhausted man cannot be held against him and the author certainly agrees with that.
What is baseless? That Zoro fought Braham, challenge of Iron, Ohm, Nola, Wyper, fell from sky and finally reached Enel? That's factual.
Of course it doesnt apply to swordsmen only because Zoro fight non-swordsmen as well.
Whether Zoro would have won or not, in good condition is besides the point, what matters is how he lost - after a gauntlet.
Rooftop is the best example, Zoro was defeated without losing to anyone. That defeat cannot be held against him.
Since Zoro lost to Mihawk, he has fought many people who arent not swordsmen and loss is not an option.
As I said, your whole understanding is wrong. Zoro would never think it is ok to lose to non-swordsmen.
I didnt say he didnt lose, he lost many time but not in a way that it breaks his promise because it was due to cheap shots, gauntlets and what not... When you run a gauntlet, you will eventually lose, inevitably. Kaido is proof of that, he cant fight endlessly despite being stronger than anyone he faces. Luffy is irrelevant, he is on his 4th round vs Kaido...
Having papercuts isnt saving you from losing fair and square. Zoro had major fights in Skypiea before Enel.
Luffy had no major fight before Kaido. Your examples are worthless.
Zoro back at Enel already had several major fights and was already exhausted from those.
Getting defeated by Enel after a gauntlet didnt break his promise of never losing, Oda confirmed it.
Gauntlet didnt break Zoro's promise, author has confirmed it.
If you disagree, you have to complain to the author, because it was he who said so.
I argued the same thing before the author confirmed it so wrong again, Sen-chan.
Nami saying that everyone is defeated doesnt change the fact that Zoro ran a gauntlet.
You are literally jumping all over the place unable to form an argument...
Nobody except Luffybros gets a bright idea that Luffy is stronger than those villains in the past just because plot dragged his ass to victory. No, I know that Zoro was defeated but he didnt lose in a way that breaks his promise of never losing again. Beating an exhausted man cannot be held against him and the author certainly agrees with that.
What is baseless? That Zoro fought Braham, challenge of Iron, Ohm, Nola, Wyper, fell from sky and finally reached Enel? That's factual.
Of course it doesnt apply to swordsmen only because Zoro fight non-swordsmen as well.
Whether Zoro would have won or not, in good condition is besides the point, what matters is how he lost - after a gauntlet.
Rooftop is the best example, Zoro was defeated without losing to anyone. That defeat cannot be held against him.
This is my last comment about this topic.
Zoro lost to a swordsman Mihawk. After his loss he swore to never loss again and he wants to become WSS. It makes sense that he gives his promise to never losing against swordsman.
Also it also matches with his comment to Cabaji too.
Getting damaged before the fight doesnt mean that you didnt lost. Luffy was nerfed with Kaido no matter what. He took damage from different opponents before that fight. And he still lost.
When Luffy fall from Onigashima we were saying that he lost.
When Zoro beats King even if he is damaged before we said that King is lost.
And i am saying even if Enel beats Zoro even if he is damaged before he is lost.
Zoro lost to a swordsman Mihawk. After his loss he swore to never loss again and he wants to become WSS. It makes sense that he gives his promise to never losing against swordsman.
Also it also matches with his comment to Cabaji too.
Getting damaged before the fight doesnt mean that you didnt lost. Luffy was nerfed with Kaido no matter what. He took damage from different opponents before that fight. And he still lost.
When Luffy fall from Onigashima we were saying that he lost.
When Zoro beats King even if he is damaged before we said that King is lost.
And i am saying even if Enel beats Zoro even if he is damaged before he is lost.
As I said, your whole understanding is wrong. Zoro would never think it is ok to lose to non-swordsmen.
I didnt say he didnt lose, he lost many time but not in a way that it breaks his promise because it was due to cheap shots, gauntlets and what not... When you run a gauntlet, you will eventually lose, inevitably. Kaido is proof of that, he cant fight endlessly despite being stronger than anyone he faces. Luffy is irrelevant, he is on his 4th round vs Kaido...
Having papercuts isnt saving you from losing fair and square. Zoro had major fights in Skypiea before Enel.
Luffy had no major fight before Kaido. Your examples are worthless.
Zoro back at Enel already had several major fights and was already exhausted from those.
Getting defeated by Enel after a gauntlet didnt break his promise of never losing, Oda confirmed it.
Zoro never lost a fight. It was clearly said in the King vs Zoro fight (which was not a sword fight).
Now if you want to consider that he did lose against Enel be my guest, but it is not canon
Now if you want to consider that he did lose against Enel be my guest, but it is not canon
You can lie to yourself and state that Zoro’s vow only includes swordsman….idrc. But to say he never lost against Enel is a pure lie.
Zoro really found a part time job as a footstool
Zoro apparently one shots, gauntlet didn't break anything, I apparently don't understand what the author is on about, blablabla.
You cannot form any substantial argument of Zoro apparently taking more than three lightning attacks. If so, just do it. Stop writing wall of texts, just provide solid arguments, no "muh gauntlet" - also, Zoro wasn't as heavily weakened as you claim, otherwise Oda would have highlighted it. Thus, it's irrelevant.
You cannot form any substantial argument of Zoro apparently taking more than three lightning attacks. If so, just do it. Stop writing wall of texts, just provide solid arguments, no "muh gauntlet" - also, Zoro wasn't as heavily weakened as you claim, otherwise Oda would have highlighted it. Thus, it's irrelevant.
Okay I can agree to this, since its not that you are denying Zoro lost but the way he did.
What I disagree with is the Gauntlet argument though.
You say this but its contradictory.... You mention the gauntlet exhausting him and worsens his condition but say that his condition doesn't matter in that same statement.... So what is it?
If his condition worsens due to previous encounters and zoro losses because maybe his not 100% then if he losses its not a lose?
Because all of Zoro's fights are with him having handicaps or having been previously injured.
What I disagree with is the Gauntlet argument though.
You say this but its contradictory.... You mention the gauntlet exhausting him and worsens his condition but say that his condition doesn't matter in that same statement.... So what is it?
If his condition worsens due to previous encounters and zoro losses because maybe his not 100% then if he losses its not a lose?
Because all of Zoro's fights are with him having handicaps or having been previously injured.