General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
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True, but you have your own ways of annoying them as well. All there is in this thread is either reports of them or you
You both participate in the madness and I will not punish just one if I run into it
You both participate in the madness and I will not punish just one if I run into it
I have a strong opinion that's for sure and I'm diligent to reply to everything, also. But If people can't stop themself to be toxic because I don't agree with them or that I don't want to give up on the argumentation, that's not on me and I would appreciate you to understand that. Thank you.
By saying that Momo should grow up by himself you are implicitly saying that Yamato should leave momo to grow by himself, therefore denying the exact point about a relationship between as a son/tutor.
No, I'm mentionning that:
1. Luffy is not Roger. And the parralelism between Roger and the strawhats is highly convoluted
2. That Oden made a mistake by going with him
I quoted you already. You have clearly stated that Momo should be able to grow by himself, ergo : being a grown up. And that's what I'm criticizing because it's not only wrong on a storytelling basis, it's wrong on a fondamental basis, and Oda would actually makea mistake by letting Momo without the proper guidance and trainer.
This is an expression pal. For goda's sake..
I won't reply to those inventions about me wanting to provoque anyone into ban, anymore. This is going nowhere.
Not in a big way but it would. That panel of Carrot is a setup/contextualization panel.. Whatever Carrot does, if we don't get that, there would be something missing. Oda don't waste panels.
We also left the best doctor on Drum
We also left the best cook on the baratie
We also left the best swordman on the baratie
We also left the best gunner.. wait.. we haven't met him yet
etc.
There are people better than the strawhat in most of the post.. the thing is, it doesn't matter as the strawhat and their post are only here to shine in a very specific situation.
No, I'm mentionning that:
1. Luffy is not Roger. And the parralelism between Roger and the strawhats is highly convoluted
2. That Oden made a mistake by going with him
I quoted you already. You have clearly stated that Momo should be able to grow by himself, ergo : being a grown up. And that's what I'm criticizing because it's not only wrong on a storytelling basis, it's wrong on a fondamental basis, and Oda would actually makea mistake by letting Momo without the proper guidance and trainer.
This is an expression pal. For goda's sake..
I won't reply to those inventions about me wanting to provoque anyone into ban, anymore. This is going nowhere.
Not in a big way but it would. That panel of Carrot is a setup/contextualization panel.. Whatever Carrot does, if we don't get that, there would be something missing. Oda don't waste panels.
We also left the best doctor on Drum
We also left the best cook on the baratie
We also left the best swordman on the baratie
We also left the best gunner.. wait.. we haven't met him yet
etc.
There are people better than the strawhat in most of the post.. the thing is, it doesn't matter as the strawhat and their post are only here to shine in a very specific situation.
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So, I didn’t say anything about disagreeing Yamato/Momo as father/son relationship, but then accused me saying I don’t agree just because I said Momo needs to grow up by himself
and also because I said “Momo should grow up by himself” = “Momo is a grown up”
Everybody with common logic will understand that the way I said Momo needs to grow up means that he’s mentally not a grown up. Therefore, he needs to be a grown up not just physically, but mentally.
And accussing others (me) twisting words & gaslighting instead of reflecting himself…
Denying Yamato joining with headcanons that she will stay & won’t join doesn’t change the fact that Carrot ain’t joining by the way
and also because I said “Momo should grow up by himself” = “Momo is a grown up”
Everybody with common logic will understand that the way I said Momo needs to grow up means that he’s mentally not a grown up. Therefore, he needs to be a grown up not just physically, but mentally.
And accussing others (me) twisting words & gaslighting instead of reflecting himself…
Denying Yamato joining with headcanons that she will stay & won’t join doesn’t change the fact that Carrot ain’t joining by the way
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So, with what I said “Momo should grow up by himself” = “Momo is a grown up”
Everybody with common logic will understand that the way I said Momo needs to grow up means that he’s mentally not a grown up. Therefore, he needs to be a grown up not just physically, but mentally.
And accussing others twisting words instead of reflecting himself…
Denying Yamato joining with headcanons that she will stay doesn’t change the fact that Carrot ain’t joining by the way
Everybody with common logic will understand that the way I said Momo needs to grow up means that he’s mentally not a grown up. Therefore, he needs to be a grown up not just physically, but mentally.
And accussing others twisting words instead of reflecting himself…
Denying Yamato joining with headcanons that she will stay doesn’t change the fact that Carrot ain’t joining by the way
At one moment.. If I keep nourrishing your toxicity, it will only create fire. And you clearly have a very strange appreciation of how kids should be taken care of, and frankly, this is kind of sickening to me as someone who is militing to make people understand that "taking care of personnal problem on your own and refusing to ask for help" is a very problematic and toxic vision of life.
I won't nourrish you on that matter any more.
Next topic.
@Rootbeer @JoSeungHun7335
This is what I'm talking about
He repeats the same thing over and over, its called analysis
But then calls other people out for repeating something because he didn't understand
He says Momo is asking Yamato to guide him like a father through subtext when has never done any such thing, but when Yamato LITERALLY asked Luffy to join his crew... he says its a Is red herring to setup Carrot
Everyone of the people we recruited for those positions have goals to improve in those fields to become the best so it make sense that they aren't the best
Is it Carrot's dream to become the best lookout in the world?
This is what I'm talking about
He repeats the same thing over and over, its called analysis
But then calls other people out for repeating something because he didn't understand
He says Momo is asking Yamato to guide him like a father through subtext when has never done any such thing, but when Yamato LITERALLY asked Luffy to join his crew... he says its a Is red herring to setup Carrot
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Everyone of the people we recruited for those positions have goals to improve in those fields to become the best so it make sense that they aren't the best
Is it Carrot's dream to become the best lookout in the world?
Yup chapter 1041 proves that Momo is asking Yamato for guidance.
The difference with the other thing, is that Yamato never asked Luffy to join him. She stated & I have already explained that 1000 times:
> Because of the nature of the statement (a false logic, we don't get on boats because we know someone's brother) this statement is corrupted .. and therefore becomes a Subversion dialogue: A dialogue leading to a false expectation.
But i'm fighting the wind here.. I feel like I will have to repeat that again.. and again.. and again.. and I'm not even sure that I won't have to repeat it once Carrot join and Yamato don't...
Not all of them. Jinbe does not care about being the best helmsman in the world.
The difference with the other thing, is that Yamato never asked Luffy to join him. She stated & I have already explained that 1000 times:
> Because of the nature of the statement (a false logic, we don't get on boats because we know someone's brother) this statement is corrupted .. and therefore becomes a Subversion dialogue: A dialogue leading to a false expectation.
But i'm fighting the wind here.. I feel like I will have to repeat that again.. and again.. and again.. and I'm not even sure that I won't have to repeat it once Carrot join and Yamato don't...
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Not all of them. Jinbe does not care about being the best helmsman in the world.
Momo asked an opinion of someone, he's an 8 year old child who watched his father die and less than 2 months later has to decide the fate of his entire country
Of course he would ask the opinion of the only other person who read Oden journal
And as for Yamato asking to join the crew, luffy literally said "I dont trust you yet" but never said no
And now that Luffy does, once the end of the arc comes and Yamato asks... there is no reason to say no, that coupled with the fact that Yamato has stated directly to her father than she still wants to leave with Luffy after she had already had her interaction with Momo means her desire to join has not and will not change
But One Piece hides everything and thats too obvious, so I guess its not enough subtext for you
Of course he would ask the opinion of the only other person who read Oden journal
And as for Yamato asking to join the crew, luffy literally said "I dont trust you yet" but never said no
And now that Luffy does, once the end of the arc comes and Yamato asks... there is no reason to say no, that coupled with the fact that Yamato has stated directly to her father than she still wants to leave with Luffy after she had already had her interaction with Momo means her desire to join has not and will not change
But One Piece hides everything and thats too obvious, so I guess its not enough subtext for you
This is not just the "opinion" of someone. Momo is asking here a real question to the person who is the most qualified to answer and guide him.
Of course, but that's not my point. Even if Luffy said "yes" I would be sceptic after that statement, because of the very reason that the statement is corrupted by a false logic. Transforming it in what I call a subversion dialogue. Something that is stated, but won't happen.
I have said that already too, but if Yamato has to ask Luffy, it would be on completely different term and for a completely different reason. Because of the exact nature of the previous statement.
Right now their is no evidence of that happening anytime soon or Yamato seeing LUffy as someone else than just a "exceptionnal character".
On the contrary. When an author like Oda make his character make such obvious statement (and multiple times) I always have a red flag swinging. Because that type of narration is exactly what Oda is used too (he has done that multiple time in whole cake):
- stating that something will happen blatently only to subvert the expectations of the reader after that.
Subverting expectation is litterally Oda's thing. Do you really think that he would be so obvious about such an important event ???
Of course, but that's not my point. Even if Luffy said "yes" I would be sceptic after that statement, because of the very reason that the statement is corrupted by a false logic. Transforming it in what I call a subversion dialogue. Something that is stated, but won't happen.
I have said that already too, but if Yamato has to ask Luffy, it would be on completely different term and for a completely different reason. Because of the exact nature of the previous statement.
Right now their is no evidence of that happening anytime soon or Yamato seeing LUffy as someone else than just a "exceptionnal character".
On the contrary. When an author like Oda make his character make such obvious statement (and multiple times) I always have a red flag swinging. Because that type of narration is exactly what Oda is used too (he has done that multiple time in whole cake):
- stating that something will happen blatently only to subvert the expectations of the reader after that.
Subverting expectation is litterally Oda's thing. Do you really think that he would be so obvious about such an important event ???
The ironic part of this whole discussion is that Momo agrees with this "toxic mentality" of him facing his problems on his own. He has the same issue as Usopp where he has the ability but lets his cowardice take over. Every time Usopp has to deal with being afraid, he grows the courage to beat it thanks to no one being there for him to hide behind. Don't see how it's rocket science to say that Momo is following the same principle.
Luffy's quote below is an obvious direct attack on Momo saying he's worried about who might come through the borders. Yamato staying to fix that fear for him only validates the cowardice that the narrative goes against. She might as well push back Onigashima too.
Luffy's quote below is an obvious direct attack on Momo saying he's worried about who might come through the borders. Yamato staying to fix that fear for him only validates the cowardice that the narrative goes against. She might as well push back Onigashima too.
He said that chapter 1041 is where Momo asks for guidance. Well, yeah Momo asked her for an answer (not guidance), but it’s never been stated that he asked her guidance like a father figure she is. Trust me, he will say that we need to look at the subtext to fit his headcanons. It’s always been like this that he keeps twisting logic to force his own headcanons as a coping mechanism.
Isn’t it obvious though? Anything that against Carrot joining, he will try so hard to debunk them.
But anything that against Yamato joining, he will immediately agree them
Do you see how his double standards work?
Using his logic like that, if he agrees that Yamato will not join then subtext-ly speaking he agrees that Yamato will join. Let’s use his logic against him.
And I 100% can assure you he will either deny this, or say that I’m twisting words. Worst case scenario, he will use his victim card to protect himself like he always use as I quote him:
The more they have their back against the wall, the harder they bite.
and surely he barks harder than he bites. He can cope however he wants, but he can’t change the fact that Carrot isn’t joining.
Isn’t it obvious though? Anything that against Carrot joining, he will try so hard to debunk them.
But anything that against Yamato joining, he will immediately agree them
Do you see how his double standards work?
Using his logic like that, if he agrees that Yamato will not join then subtext-ly speaking he agrees that Yamato will join. Let’s use his logic against him.
And I 100% can assure you he will either deny this, or say that I’m twisting words. Worst case scenario, he will use his victim card to protect himself like he always use as I quote him:
The more they have their back against the wall, the harder they bite.
and surely he barks harder than he bites. He can cope however he wants, but he can’t change the fact that Carrot isn’t joining.
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The dream was to be like Oden by traveling the seas then coming back to be on Wano's side in this battle against Kaido. Being there for Wano is a part of the dream. The dream however has not gone to Yamato's initial plan.
Oda stated through Kaido that the Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Okuchi-no-Makami is a Guardian Deity of Wano. Doesn't matter that Kaido is the main villain.
These similarities and connections still apply with Yamato and Momo. Why would Oda create these interactions and parallels between the 2 of them? What is the payoff?
8 year old Yamato claims the title "Oden". This is after hearing about Oden from those around and witnessing Oden's memorable death.
8 year old Yamato wonders if they can become a samurai which connects to Wano.
After reading/hearing Oden's Travels, 8 year old Yamato stated they will fight on the side of Wano AFTER going out to sea and becoming stronger. Essentially doing what Oden did travel wise then in returning to Wano being there for the prophesied 20 years from then battle...which is now in story.
The 26 year old Yamato who met Ace should still want to travel to sea, grow stronger, THEN comeback for the prophesied battle in Wano.
But Yamato never got to go out to sea BEFORE the battle as planned by their 8 year old self. The exclamations were made before Yamato knew Momonosuke and the retainers were truly alive. Yamato planned to come back to Wano after taking on Oden's Will (Identity) to participate in the battle in their stead.
So my questions are:
Oda stated through Kaido that the Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Okuchi-no-Makami is a Guardian Deity of Wano. Doesn't matter that Kaido is the main villain.
These similarities and connections still apply with Yamato and Momo. Why would Oda create these interactions and parallels between the 2 of them? What is the payoff?
8 year old Yamato wonders if they can become a samurai which connects to Wano.
The 26 year old Yamato who met Ace should still want to travel to sea, grow stronger, THEN comeback for the prophesied battle in Wano.
But Yamato never got to go out to sea BEFORE the battle as planned by their 8 year old self. The exclamations were made before Yamato knew Momonosuke and the retainers were truly alive. Yamato planned to come back to Wano after taking on Oden's Will (Identity) to participate in the battle in their stead.
So my questions are:
- What was 8 year old Yamato's plan to do after the battle was won? Would Yamato stay in Wano (become a samurai) or leave Wano to travel again? If to travel again, then for what reason(s)?
- What is the female equivalent of Yamao (Yama Bro) which is male? A possible reason why Luffy has yet to refer to Yamato by their actual name could be for a joke setup. I see arguments stating Luffy called Chopper "Reindeer" but did Chopper correct Luffy before the recruitment was official? No, I don't recall that he did so it isn't a fair comparison when Luffy was ignorant of Chopper's name unlike being told directly by Yamato and still choosing to refer to Yamato by a nickname.
- Is anyone from Wano or someone who would arguably stay to protect/guard Wano stronger than Yamato? I surmise no. Yamato would bolster Wano's defenses tremendously being the strongest samurai. If Wano is to be open borders it must be able to protect itself better than it has in the past. The more manpower the better. Zunesha is great for outside the borders but what about inside the borders? Momonosuke Kozuki is not ready. The current retainers were not enough. Wano needs to upgrade their personnel.
- Where are Ogres from? Who created the Skull Dome on Onigashima? This may be a Wano connection which would explain Kaido's stance on keeping Wano under control. This also would mean that Yamato's ancestral home has in fact been Wano all along.
Momo has no choice but to face his fears right now, and he will do a good job about it. But you can't expect a mentally 8 to be like Usopp, it's just not right.
It's not because Luffy says it, that it is right. There is no cowardise in Momo questionning himself, only a very twisted person would think that. We are not in the case of Usopp were Momo runs from his responsibilities. He accepts them plainly, he is just questionning the descision, because he has no guidance. (well.. until now)
That's asking for guidance.
It is implied.
If you really don't see the obvious.. I don't really have a way to make you see it.. so...
Next.
Wrong, there are things that the Carrot fanbase I don't agree with anymore. Like the name for example.
Carrot is not irrelevant is Wano. She is just not present in the story very much. But her moments are still there ;)
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There is an actual point in this.
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