For everyone commenting that it IS in fact strength-related, I agree and I did address that in the last two paragraphs of the OP. However, people pointed out to me that my original title was very different from what I was actually trying to say in the thread. I changed it to more accurately reflect what I meant to say
Speculations Why "Wings" does not mean Zoro = Sanji in strength
- Thread starter Franosuke
- Start date
That is pure headcanon coming from a sanji and luffy fan.
Zoro advcoc is putting him into the category with Luffy do you get that?
Are you blind to what Kaido said? Only an handfull of the strongest can use this power?
I dont get if poeple are still coping about what Kaido said or if they cant accept Zoro is King with advcoc and future WSS
The gab between Luffy&Zoro is very small or nonexistent but the gab between Zoro&Sanji are galaxy.
Adv CoC + Goal is what make Luffy&Zoro in the same category where Zoro&sanji rivality is like shanks vs buggy
Sanji unlock coa in this faking fight, he has no willpower to be at the top nor coc or advcoc.
He didnt clash against 2 yonko, he didnt make a captain speechless (law when saw Asura), he didnt take the strongest attack in One Piece. He didnt scare an other Yonko, He didnt receive praises directly from a Yonko.
I get you cant accept that Zoro got that many feat and advcoc like Luffy but hey that is what the manga is telling us.
Keep coping guys.
Zoro advcoc is putting him into the category with Luffy do you get that?
Are you blind to what Kaido said? Only an handfull of the strongest can use this power?
I dont get if poeple are still coping about what Kaido said or if they cant accept Zoro is King with advcoc and future WSS
The gab between Luffy&Zoro is very small or nonexistent but the gab between Zoro&Sanji are galaxy.
Adv CoC + Goal is what make Luffy&Zoro in the same category where Zoro&sanji rivality is like shanks vs buggy
Sanji unlock coa in this faking fight, he has no willpower to be at the top nor coc or advcoc.
He didnt clash against 2 yonko, he didnt make a captain speechless (law when saw Asura), he didnt take the strongest attack in One Piece. He didnt scare an other Yonko, He didnt receive praises directly from a Yonko.
I get you cant accept that Zoro got that many feat and advcoc like Luffy but hey that is what the manga is telling us.
Keep coping guys.
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There is a great gab in strenght between Zoro&Sanji - currently Zoro is having a power that only the MVP could unlock in this arc.
That same power was praised and hype directly by a top tier character which made clear that if you dont have it, you are not part of that club.
I dont care whatever excuse they need to say to downplay Zoro, his goal/willpower were all over the story galaxy far away from Sanji.
Willpower is what make pirate reach the top, if people dont get that after 1000chapter they ll never get it.
Luffy&Zoro in term of strength they are far away from the other strawhat whatever they like it or not
That same power was praised and hype directly by a top tier character which made clear that if you dont have it, you are not part of that club.
I dont care whatever excuse they need to say to downplay Zoro, his goal/willpower were all over the story galaxy far away from Sanji.
Willpower is what make pirate reach the top, if people dont get that after 1000chapter they ll never get it.
Luffy&Zoro in term of strength they are far away from the other strawhat whatever they like it or not
’Wings’ is just a metaphor for how Zoro and Sanji are Luffys right and left hand men. How are people actually trying to powerscale based on this. Just like how humans don’t have equally strong arms and legs, “wings” don‘t need to be equally strong. Ones the clear number 2 and ones the clear number 3
No one said that Zoro and Sanji are perfectly equal in strength. Zoro is always stronger than Sanji. Just like how Luffy is stronger than Zoro. It's just not some kind of low diff mid diff bullshit. If you're saying that Zoro can mid diff Sanji or lower then you must also accept that Luffy can mid diff Zoro or lower. If you say Luffy can high diff Zoro then Zoro can high diff Sanji, etc.
The problem is not about the Wings being equals, it's about how people saying Wings doesn't mean anything and thinks that Zoro is different entity and that Sanji should not breathe the same air as Zoro, while throughout the story, both of them stand shoulder to shoulder and support each others backs. Unfortunately, some people don't want that.
The problem is not about the Wings being equals, it's about how people saying Wings doesn't mean anything and thinks that Zoro is different entity and that Sanji should not breathe the same air as Zoro, while throughout the story, both of them stand shoulder to shoulder and support each others backs. Unfortunately, some people don't want that.
The good joke to say that I'm a fan of Sanji you don't even know me you say that I'm a fan of Sanji it's still amazing to say that.
I stand by what I say Sanji against Zoro it's hard to say that the minimum or the maximum in both cases.
Sanji doesn't push Zoro in extreme diff but in hard diff that's for sure.
That's all I said point. Always when we say in a neutral way that Sanji is not so far from Zoro's level.
The strongest detractors of Sanji you feel assaulted.
Where i said Luffy mid diff in my post ?
I said Zoro wins against Sanji in hard diff it's all
Luffy beats Zoro in hard diff simple.
I never said Luffy mid diff Zoro
Sometimes i have impression that is not always the case
Finally someone neutral who speaks the truth.
No one is saying that Zoro and Sanji say are equal.
But most people (often Zoro fans who are tiring to everyone on this forum) want to make it look like the gap between Sanji and Zoro is the same gap that we see between Jinbei and Who'Who when it is not the case.
I stand by what I say Sanji against Zoro it's hard to say that the minimum or the maximum in both cases.
Sanji doesn't push Zoro in extreme diff but in hard diff that's for sure.
That's all I said point. Always when we say in a neutral way that Sanji is not so far from Zoro's level.
The strongest detractors of Sanji you feel assaulted.
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What's the gap between Zoro and Luffy, then?
If you say mid diff
If you say mid diff
I said Zoro wins against Sanji in hard diff it's all
Luffy beats Zoro in hard diff simple.
I never said Luffy mid diff Zoro
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Sometimes i have impression that is not always the case
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Finally someone neutral who speaks the truth.
No one is saying that Zoro and Sanji say are equal.
But most people (often Zoro fans who are tiring to everyone on this forum) want to make it look like the gap between Sanji and Zoro is the same gap that we see between Jinbei and Who'Who when it is not the case.
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I can accept your opinion but the manga is telling something different,
The adv coc stuff is what it made clear that there are clear power that make a character a top tier or not.
The fact that in this arc Zoro&Luffy are getting the same PU which is necessary to fight into the next league with Yonkos made to me clear that you can't just say that all story was always luffy>Zoro>Sanji because is not like that.
If new information will come in the future in which prove that Sanji has something equally strong ad adv coc or adv coc himself, I will reconsider my position.
I wanna make clear that adv coc is a game changer because all previous luffy power were to shallow (didnt work on Kaido) so that include adv coo, g4 different forms, adv coa (internal destruction thing).
This goes also for Zoro, which could damage Kaido but King has a better defense than Kaido dragon scale so he need something better and adv coc attack are on a different league than what Zoro show on the rooftop.
Sanji doesnt have this kind of power, he has nothing that make possible to him for even try to fight in this category that why I am saying that the classic Lufy>Zoro>Sanji is obsolete. The new one is making Luffy>Zoro>>>Sanji. Feat and portrayed are also not with Sanji. I would accept if Sanji had a extended clash with a top tier pirate to think differently but that not the case.
Sanji in his own arc (around 80 more chapters) didnt clash with any YC nor did fight like Brook Big Mom. Oda went with the route of cooking the cake.
Zoro role in Wano is not cooking a cake, he stated that he went to Onigashima to cut to pieces Kaido. Do you see the difference?
That all, you can keep your argument that it was always like Luffy>Zoro>Sanji and I will tell you that is not true based on what the strongest creature in the world is saying. Kaido want the strongest in his crew. He respect strong individual so what is saying about new power is extremely important if you want to powerscale.
The adv coc stuff is what it made clear that there are clear power that make a character a top tier or not.
The fact that in this arc Zoro&Luffy are getting the same PU which is necessary to fight into the next league with Yonkos made to me clear that you can't just say that all story was always luffy>Zoro>Sanji because is not like that.
If new information will come in the future in which prove that Sanji has something equally strong ad adv coc or adv coc himself, I will reconsider my position.
I wanna make clear that adv coc is a game changer because all previous luffy power were to shallow (didnt work on Kaido) so that include adv coo, g4 different forms, adv coa (internal destruction thing).
This goes also for Zoro, which could damage Kaido but King has a better defense than Kaido dragon scale so he need something better and adv coc attack are on a different league than what Zoro show on the rooftop.
Sanji doesnt have this kind of power, he has nothing that make possible to him for even try to fight in this category that why I am saying that the classic Lufy>Zoro>Sanji is obsolete. The new one is making Luffy>Zoro>>>Sanji. Feat and portrayed are also not with Sanji. I would accept if Sanji had a extended clash with a top tier pirate to think differently but that not the case.
Sanji in his own arc (around 80 more chapters) didnt clash with any YC nor did fight like Brook Big Mom. Oda went with the route of cooking the cake.
Zoro role in Wano is not cooking a cake, he stated that he went to Onigashima to cut to pieces Kaido. Do you see the difference?
That all, you can keep your argument that it was always like Luffy>Zoro>Sanji and I will tell you that is not true based on what the strongest creature in the world is saying. Kaido want the strongest in his crew. He respect strong individual so what is saying about new power is extremely important if you want to powerscale.
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that's much better
Why is it presumtuous though? We are just using what the story is protraying as potential evidence, the Sanji Zoro dynimic has been a thing way before the wings was a thing, just like the Luffy Zoro dynimic, so to me it speaks more on SANJI and how good he is imo takes nothing away from Zoro, other than that i csn agree Zoro beats Sanji but to me it's am extreme diff fight.
Also i just wanna say the Black Maria moment was not a bad look for Sanji, Oda even rewarded Sanji for that moment with the wings stuff, also simply put how Robin felt about that moment>how the fanbase felt, also Jimbei potentially replacing Sanji shouldn't have been a serious argument because this shit happened before 2 times so idk how people were still suprised, and to your last point Sanji is the straw hat that shined the most regardless of his feats or lack there of because his character is the thing that matters the most, WCI should be enough to prove it but Wano has reinforced that fact even further. I know it was not the point pf your thread but i disagree heavily with those 3 points.
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Also i just wanna say the Black Maria moment was not a bad look for Sanji, Oda even rewarded Sanji for that moment with the wings stuff, also simply put how Robin felt about that moment>how the fanbase felt, also Jimbei potentially replacing Sanji shouldn't have been a serious argument because this shit happened before 2 times so idk how people were still suprised, and to your last point Sanji is the straw hat that shined the most regardless of his feats or lack there of because his character is the thing that matters the most, WCI should be enough to prove it but Wano has reinforced that fact even further. I know it was not the point pf your thread but i disagree heavily with those 3 points.
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If Zoro was better, then Sanji wouldnt be compared to him and put on equal status. Simple.
Its either a strength indicator or heiarchy indicator.
My opinion....its a heiarchy indicator.
How is it insulting for Sanji lmao. Being the cook and being as strong as or stronger than the fighter....is impressive. Not insulting.
Its either a strength indicator or heiarchy indicator.
My opinion....its a heiarchy indicator.
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How is it insulting for Sanji lmao. Being the cook and being as strong as or stronger than the fighter....is impressive. Not insulting.
Since Onemanga and Mangatraders era, many Sanji fans believe that Zoro has higher strength than Sanji, but still believe in Zoro=Sanji (as in combat)? Why?
Back in the day, like a decade ago, a lot of people believe that Sanji can beat Zoro. Because realistically, Sanji can just kick Zoro upwards again and again, and just drop him to death. This disc happened after the fishman island arc. However this kind of thing never happen in shounen-verse, so a lot of people disapprove of this scenario.
Thus, once again, back and forth between their fans. I'm just talking about history/old days btw. NTA about this thread topic.
Back in the day, like a decade ago, a lot of people believe that Sanji can beat Zoro. Because realistically, Sanji can just kick Zoro upwards again and again, and just drop him to death. This disc happened after the fishman island arc. However this kind of thing never happen in shounen-verse, so a lot of people disapprove of this scenario.
Thus, once again, back and forth between their fans. I'm just talking about history/old days btw. NTA about this thread topic.