Speculations Why "Wings" does not mean Zoro = Sanji in strength

#61
I agree I want to had this too:
This is the only instance in all One Piece that we have this kind of connection draw by Oda.
If people are willing to use wings to show which hierarchy there is in the straw-hat pirate well I will tell them that Oda is seeing Luffy&Zoro exactly like Roger&Raeligh.
which is not false
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After that stupid livestream thread involving the head writer for the...*sigh*....live action one piece series, I feel the need to properly examine the whole "wings" narrative and why it doesn't refer to Zoro and Sanji being equal in strength.

All the way back in Volume 73 SBS, Oda used the same Japanese kanji to refer to Zoro and Sanji as Luffy's "wings" as Robin did in chapter 1020. You can see this explanation here:


Most English versions of this SBS do not directly include the word "wings" in their description, but rather they say that Zoro and Sanji are "both valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back." The context of the SBS question matters a lot in this case. The reader presented a compilation of every time Zoro and Sanji referred to each other, noting that Zoro has never called Sanji by his name and lamenting the fact that the two of them don't get along. In response, Oda is basically trying to encourage the reader to focus on what they have in common rather than their differences. Here is the full sentence:

"While they may not get along well, they are both valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back, so let's forgive them for their squabbling."

Think about this: why would Oda respond to a question complaining about Zoro and Sanji's personal relationship by power-scaling? "Yeah, they may argue a lot, but they're equally strong!" versus "Yeah, they may argue a lot, but they are both just as fundamental to making Luffy the Pirate King!" Which sounds like a more logical response given the context of the question?

Furthermore, let's examine the context of Robin's specific statement in the current situation instead of Oda's words from long ago. Why did Oda choose to insert this line here?
  • Sanji just experienced one of the lowest moments of the series.
    • He was humiliated by Black Maria, forcing him to swallow his pride and call for Robin's help while all of Onigashima heard it. That is just brutal for Oda to do to him. And keep in mind that all of this is happening right during/after the rooftop fight where Luffy and Zoro are getting to fight fricking Kaido and Big Mom. In my opinion, this is Oda's way of saying, "no matter how bad Sanji may look at times, he is still one of Luffy's two most trusted men. He is still part of the monster trio."
  • Jinbe just joined the crew
    • After Jinbe joined the crew, many people speculated that Sanji's spot in the M3 would be in danger. In fact, some people thought that he would even overtake Zoro as the #2 and RHM. Again, this is Oda's way of saying, "no matter who joins the crew, Zoro and Sanji will be Luffy's top 2 men." Luffy, Zoro, Sanji. That will never change.
  • Sanji had several consecutive arcs where Oda seemed to purposely make him look "uncool."
    • Even aside from the Black Maria thing, Oda seemed to have no problem with not giving Sanji much shine. He was absent for the majority of Dressrosa and the entirety of Zou. In WCI, even though it was an arc centered around him, it was more meant to show the depth of his character and the beauty of his kindness/personality. He didn't really have many moments that the fanbase would consider "hype."

So why is it Zoro & Sanji and not anyone else if Oda wasn't talking about strength?

Well, strength definitely does play a role, but it is not the main/only deciding factor. Zoro & Sanji being "valuable, trustworthy men who have Luffy's back" is dependent on them being able to support him in any situation. Someone like Nami, although she is a trusted advisor for Luffy, cannot support him in battle nor can she lead the rest of the crew in battle if Luffy is absent. This is evidenced by Luffy saying in Sabaody that he, Zoro and Sanji needed to split up and lead different groups if they wanted to get out alive.

Both Zoro and Sanji have been shown to be far above the rest of the crew in combat ability that Luffy would trust only them specifically to handle the lives of the rest of the crew. However, they have also been shown to be capable leaders in his absence. While Zoro is obviously the first choice and his status as the "unofficial" vice-captain in the crew shouldn't really be questioned, I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Sanji is always the next choice and he tends to serve as the protector of the weak members of the crew. This is evidenced by how he took charge of the rest of the crew during Dressrosa/Zou when Luffy & Zoro were absent. While Luffy & Zoro tend to recklessly bulldoze into battle to find the strong enemies, Sanji tends to stay back and protect. This is essentially exactly what happened at the beginning of the raid.

I have a lot more to potentially add on, but this is basically my two cents on the matter. Thoughts?
everything you have said is honestly ditto on point and very sensible..


but what does that have to with sanji having Coc or not is the question..

no one would disagree that the wing of the PK would have Coc..

but instead of narratively refuting the argument that sanji gets it instead you are proving something completely different.. even if what you said true..

i wanna know where these statements converge with sanji having of not have Coc.
 
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#65
which is not false
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everything you have said is honestly ditto on point and very sensible..


but what does that have to with sanji having Coc or not is the question..

no one would disagree that the wing of the PK would have Coc..

but instead of narratively refuting the argument that sanji gets it instead you are proving something completely different.. even if what you said true..

i wanna know where these statements converge with sanji having of not have Coc.
I don't think I mentioned anything about Sanji having/not having CoC in the title or the OP, I was only referring to the "wings" statement by itself
 
#71
It is power related but not quite in the manner people are taking it.

Zoro and Sanjis strength is important to Luffy because Luffy can depend on them to do what they do best.

If Luffy needs something cut down Zoro will cut it. If Luffy needs someone to protect the others Sanji will ensure nothing will hurt them even at the cost of their own lives.

The wings thing is the same thing most people have been saying for years. Zoro and Sanji are Luffys right and left hands. They’re the sword and shield of the straw hats and yes the second and third most powerful by a wide margin. Even Jimbei is low diff material to either of these two.
Yeah I think I even mentioned this in the OP. It's partially strength related in the sense that they both have to be far above the rest of the crew in strength to be considered wings in the first place. In other words, it's not comparing Sanji TO Zoro but comparing Sanji AND Zoro to the rest of the crew in terms of value/authority/strength
 
#72
It is strength related. What else do you think Robin was talking about, Sanji’s cooking skills ? He’s one of his wings because he can make the best coq au vin in the world ? Robin made this statement in response to Black Maria making fun of Sanji for being pathetically powerless and calling for help.

The real mistake people make about that statement is thinking that if it’s strength related then it must mean Sanzo have to be equal or close in strength. It’s not what it means. They’re both Luffy’s most valuable men in terms of strength and got Luffy’s back, regardless of how strong they are compared to each other.
 
#73
It is strength related. What else do you think Robin was talking about, Sanji’s cooking skills ? He’s one of his wings because he can make the best coq au vin in the world ? Robin made this statement in response to Black Maria making fun of Sanji for being pathetically powerless and calling for help.

The real mistake people make about that statement is thinking that if it’s strength related then it must mean Sanzo have to be equal or close in strength. It’s not what it means. They’re both Luffy’s most valuable men in terms of strength and got Luffy’s back, regardless of how strong they are compared to each other.
Oh you're 100% right. I should've changed the title. I actually addressed this idea in the OP. I'll change the title
 
#74
Yeah I think I even mentioned this in the OP. It's partially strength related in the sense that they both have to be far above the rest of the crew in strength to be considered wings in the first place. In other words, it's not comparing Sanji TO Zoro but comparing Sanji AND Zoro to the rest of the crew in terms of value/authority/strength
Exactly. the entire point of Monster trio is that the crew needs them as their prime combatants. No one is even close to them in strength.
 
#79
Zoro and Sanji's term wings are related to the strength and confidence that Luffy gives Zoro and Sanji.

It has nothing to do with perfect equality.

Luffy is the strongest.
Zoro is the second strongest.

Sanji is the third strongest.

What people don't understand is that the gap between Zoro and Sanji is not that big.

If there is a fight between Zoro et Sanji it will be a high or very high diff in favor of Zoro.

Simple.

Why always complicated things which are evident from the beginning ?
 
#80
The concept of wings encompasses a number of things (strength, importance, role, performance, team leadership, etc.) is like a term of importance in general.

That's why when BM scoffs at the importance of Sanji that Robin uses this speech
 
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