The bit where he fell into the ocean and was saved by voice of all tings and then this mofo was still telling Momo he'd defo beat Kaido whilst drowning was particularly filthy. At that point Kaido never stood a chance against him. Made me feel like "he's destined to win" which was a truly disgusting feeling and made me stop rooting for him against Kaido at some point. I mean Luffy is the MC, so there is an expectation that he'd win his boss fights but the Kaido ting was just disgusting.
I wasn't annoyed by the VOAT thing rather than Mugiwaras reaction to Kaido announcement that Luffy was defeated and that he was drowning in the sea.
This is a tragic scenario because no way Luffy gonna survive in a stormy sea, right?
And yet this is how Sanji reacted:
"How many miracle have you seen? After all the time we have been together..."
This is just awful, to me it felt Sanji knew that Luffy is protected by the plot armor.
For all he knows Luffy was drowning in a stormy sea and yet he was ok with that because you know "miracles happen"
4/10 maybe. He's not (and has never been) the reason I'm reading One Piece, and I have no real investment in his story. I also found him to be a more compelling character preskip.
Furthermore, I think the story is too centred around Luffy to the extent that other characters become mere accessories to him (see Kidd and Law for recent examples). This impoverishes the entire franchise IMO.
I wasn't annoyed by the VOAT things rather than Mugiwaras reaction to Kaido announcement that Luffy was defeated and that he was drowning in the sea.
This is a tragic scenario because no way Luffy gonna survive in a stormy sea, right?
And yet this is how Sanji reacted:
"How many miracle have you seen? After all the time we have been together..."
This is just awful, to me it felt Sanji knew that Luffy is protected by the plot armor.
For all he knows Luffy was drowning in a stormy sea and yet he was ok with that because you know "miracles happen"
Don't disagree with how retarded it sounds lol but tbf to the SHs, they all had their hands full & couldn't really go help him even if they wanted to. Zoro was severely injured and Sanji had to deal with the imminent threat (i.e. Queen) to him and Chopper on the Live Floor.
Moreover in Sanji's case him & Luffy went through a lot on WCI. WCI was dire as all hell for Sanji and even with all Sanji had been through with the SHs and Luffy prior to the arc he didn't believe there was any way he would have been able to escape Big Mom & Germa's grasp without anyone he cares about dying even with the miracle man's help and had lost all hope, but when he chose to believe in Luffy, Luffy was able to pull it off even against all those stupendous odds. Plus, Luffy displayed absolute faith in Sanji even though the latter disparaged and beat him black & blue & even starved himself as proof of that so kinda like Luffy has absolute faith in Sanji, Sanji has chosen to do the same with Luffy. From Sanji's perspective, when Luffy has promised to do something he'd always see it through. Luffy promised to beat Kaido so Sanji believes he'd do just that.
All the other SHs have similar experiences with Luffy as well so they have complete faith in him and his luck. Isn't rational from a real-world perspective but it can be rationalized if you look at this from the SHs perspective.
Btw, under ordinary circumstances whenever Luffy's goofy as falls of the ship, the SHs and Sanji in particular, always jumps off to save his ass. If Sanji was on the roof when Luffy fell I have no doubt that he'd have jumped off Onigashima to save him, but the circumstances don't really allow him to do that so he chose to believe the miracle man would make it through somehow.
To add to this point, on Onigahshima, even when Ulti & Page One were after Nami and Usopp, Sanji chose to rely on Usopp to protect Nami and make it out somehow which is bonkers considering Nami was in danger. Sanji understands full well that for them to win, everyone has to play their part and has complete trust in his crew mates to do just that. Same is applicable to all the other SHs.
People not seeing the difference between pre and post-TS:
Pre-TS Luffy was primarily stimulated to action by personal involvement (friends being hurt/threatened) and/or if someone represented a steep contradiction to his values, values that were shaped through his experiences in his childhood (Shanks, Ace, Sabo).
He did not necessarily, fully represent the hero archetype, but was a mix of different values behaviors that for some part were traditionally heroic (unbending will, freedom) but at the same time was honest and rude, did not fret the big stuff, and was not pretentious, and only cared about what he can do, and not what implications actions might have.
Unlike what den said, no he did not care about the bigger picture, he did not care about your past, your experiences, but only what you mean for himself and what person you are/ have become, or what is shackling you and restricting your freedom, in that sense he was really empathetic. That´s why he does not listen about Nami´s story in AP, or Jinbe´s story about Otohime in FI, he does not listen to Blackbeard´s actions over the 2 years and so forth. And despite that, at the same time, instinctively understood the details and intricacies of his nakama.
Him being so childish and not a strategist was the point, and him changing that to be more mature would be missing the point, just like Kishi initially made a point about hard work vs talent, and then had his protagonist be a genius learner with a magical beast, the strongest of his kind, inside him that gives him power.
Luffy´s experience with Shabondy, ID and Marineford was not to make him change, it was a test and challenge for him not to change, not to lose himself in tragedy, regret and self-pity, but to hold onto strengths and values he personified (determination, unbending will, trust between family/friends).
This all worked very well until Post- FI in my opinion, Fishman Island was still ok in regard to Luffy at least.
Punk Hazard was ok for the most part as well, but both Oda not doing his due diligence to explain why Luffy acts and the "Luffy is our messiah" speeches started. The thing with Brownbeard, Luffy getting angry about him and the children and so forth seemed like a cheap copy of pre-TS behavior without the necessary setup to feel credible and tangible. Luffy acted because he has to act that way for the narrative to progress, and it felt like Oda went through the motions he was used to for the entirety of OP.
And this has been a constant, Dressrosa he tried to do the same thing with Rebecca and Luffy caring about the citizens of Dressrosa for no reason, and now we have Tama once again with the same problem.
With Kinemon and Momo it works better at least because we spend so much time with them, and Luffy has built a relationship with Momo especially.
Add to that the fact that Oda is exaggerating jokes too much with Luffy´s stupidity, and you destroy the impression you have created pre-TS with a protagonist that was able to carry the story on his back.
Law and Luffy's alliance was taken as friendship by Luffy according to his crewmates, but before that, any alliance of Luffy never had that is the main purpose.
But he aint bad, he just aint perfect IMO. I think he is better than Naruto.
Not the best fictional character ever, just a little bit below average I would Say.
Luffy is a very simple character, extremely shallow personnality wise. Nothing fancy really. Just a bratt who yells non stop that he is the next Pk, and destroys his ennemies with asspulls/plot armor in a very repetitive / cliché manner. Oda is not investing alot in building his character, he is more invested in PUs lol
Hé is the driver of the story though, we follow Him where he goes, which creates a context to discover much more interesting characters (mainly the villains), some nice deceased characters, and Witness straw hats grow, and know about lore. Thats why I like one piece. Never liked one piece for Luffy in particular, there is nothing to like in him really (there are many interesting characters though in OP, like shanks, wb, Marco, rayleigh...)
Love Luffy as a character, hate how Oda handles him and his PU's.
If there is a protagonist that should have been dead a long time ago is Luffy...It was cool the first time he got defeated in Alabasta as it created massive ammounts of tension, but everytime he got destroyed and somehow got out alive after that that tesion started to disapear. Now we just have to wonder why is every goddamn person in the OP unniverse soo goddamn terrible at killing their mortal enemies? WHY DOES NO ONE CHECK THE BODY TO SEE IF ITS ACTUALY FUCKING DEAD?!
Are the main baddies in the OP unniverse scared of looking at corpses or something? You would think all these ruthless pirates would at least make sure the boy thats being a pain in their ass actualy dies.
Crocodile could kill Luffy 3 times, first in the water tank, then on the desert, then on the palace garden in alabasta, all 3 times, he didnt bother to check if Luffy actualy died or not. And that shit kept repeating itself to almost every villain that took Luffy down, Magellan also didnt bother to check Luffy's body, Katakuri also didnt made sure Luffy was dead, kaido now is ignoring Luffy too even tought he said he would kill Luffy....
Love Luffy as a character, hate how Oda handles him and his PU's.
If there is a protagonist that should have been dead a long time ago is Luffy...It was cool the first time he got defeated in Alabasta as it created massive ammounts of tension, but everytime he got destroyed and somehow got out alive after that that tesion started to disapear. Now we just have to wonder why is every goddamn person in the OP unniverse soo goddamn terrible at killing their mortal enemies? WHY DOES NO ONE CHECK THE BODY TO SEE IF ITS ACTUALY FUCKING DEAD?!
Are the main baddies in the OP unniverse scared of looking at corpses or something? You would think all these ruthless pirates would at least make sure the boy thats being a pain in their ass actualy dies.
Crocodile could kill Luffy 3 times, first in the water tank, then on the desert, then on the palace garden in alabasta, all 3 times, he didnt bother to check if Luffy actualy died or not. And that shit kept repeating itself to almost every villain that took Luffy down, Magellan also didnt bother to check Luffy's body, Katakuri also didnt made sure Luffy was dead, kaido now is ignoring Luffy too even tought he said he would kill Luffy....
Yeah, but isnt he a ruthless pirate? He didnt had any problem seeing Oden be cooked alive and shot in tthe head...Why not take Luffy's body or just the head to parade it around.
Way more effective form of breaking everyone's spirit than just saying "I killed your captain, trust me".
Yeah, but isnt he a ruthless pirate? He didnt had any problem seeing Oden be cooked alive and shot in tthe head...Why not take Luffy's body or just the head to parade it around.
Way more effective form of breaking everyone's spirit than just saying "I killed your captain, trust me".
Pre Time Skip Luffy is one of the better shonen mcs, for me, easily above the likes of Naruto/Goku/Ichigo. I'd say, 7/10.
Post Time Skip Luffy is a complete regression and character flanderization. He went from telling Vivi that "people die" to telling Jinbe to "not to die even if he dies". The chosen one tropes also got worse and worse, it was kind of a problem pre time skip but post time skip(Wano in particular) has been full of them. 3/10.
You missed the meaning of regression, when he said this to vivi , he meant that she must be ready to accept sacrifices, but that doesn’t mean to let her friends die ,
Seriously, It is something predictable from a shounen reader like you , but the next time , try to use your brain
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Luffy is the most unique shounen protagonist, he is simple yet complex , iam not surprised that people here doesn’t know the difference between character growth and character development, luffy is surely a well-developed character,
his growth is beyond great , Oda takes his time , luffy has subtle and nuanced growth which makes it beautiful , it is not like the cheap growth in other series where the character changes to another person immediately, luffy’s growth is realistic and beautiful, with staying reckless because this is the core of his character,
it is funny because people doesn’t even notice that at first chapter luffy said he wants to be a great chapter with a great crew , but in dressrosa he said that he don’t want to be a great pirate or person , such a simple and beautiful change , yet most people can’t notice it ,
while luffy before was an anti-hero , now he is caring more for the people of the countries that he saves , you can right a book about luffy
and iam sure that he will reach the 10 in the upcoming arcs
+ it is really funny that people think that luffy will accept being the chosen one , this when i wonder if they ever watched one piece lol
Not the best fictional character ever, just a little bit below average I would Say.
Luffy is a very simple character, extremely shallow personnality wise. Nothing fancy really. Just a bratt who yells non stop that he is the next Pk, and destroys his ennemies with asspulls/plot armor in a very repetitive / cliché manner. Oda is not investing alot in building his character, he is more invested in PUs lol
Hé is the driver of the story though, we follow Him where he goes, which creates a context to discover much more interesting characters (mainly the villains), some nice deceased characters, and Witness straw hats grow, and know about lore. Thats why I like one piece. Never liked one piece for Luffy in particular, there is nothing to like in him really (there are many interesting characters though in OP, like shanks, wb, Marco, rayleigh...)
You just gave me instances in pretimeskip which make post look even worse. Logtown he smile and accepted depth which adds depth to his character.
Posttime skip Luffy lacks depth and groth- every arc has examples of this
To be fair all the SHs characters have gotten worse posttime skip, with Oda trying to cast a wide net around useless characters like Momonosuke, Kinemon, and Dressrosa people. Luffy has had the same panel time pre and post time skip and majority of the people agree at how much worse post is than pre.
Luffy pre timeskip was actually smart, actually competent and thought about the bigger picture. He slapped Vivi and criticised her naïveté, and instantly understood how much Nami had sacrificed because of Arlong, even without listening to her backstory. Pre timeskip Luffy understood that in war, people die. Post timeskip Luffy is an ADHD ball of retardation and Gary Stu levels of plot warping Messianic complex. Can’t understand basic sentences from Franky at FMI and spouts dumbass naive shit like ‘even if you die, don’t die’. Fuck post timeskip Luffy, he’s an absolute clown and an embarrassment to what the character himself used to be.
People not seeing the difference between pre and post-TS:
Pre-TS Luffy was primarily stimulated to action by personal involvement (friends being hurt/threatened) and/or if someone represented a steep contradiction to his values, values that were shaped through his experiences in his childhood (Shanks, Ace, Sabo).
He did not necessarily, fully represent the hero archetype, but was a mix of different values behaviors that for some part were traditionally heroic (unbending will, freedom) but at the same time was honest and rude, did not fret the big stuff, and was not pretentious, and only cared about what he can do, and not what implications actions might have.
Unlike what den said, no he did not care about the bigger picture, he did not care about your past, your experiences, but only what you mean for himself and what person you are/ have become, or what is shackling you and restricting your freedom, in that sense he was really empathetic. That´s why he does not listen about Nami´s story in AP, or Jinbe´s story about Otohime in FI, he does not listen to Blackbeard´s actions over the 2 years and so forth. And despite that, at the same time, instinctively understood the details and intricacies of his nakama.
Him being so childish and not a strategist was the point, and him changing that to be more mature would be missing the point, just like Kishi initially made a point about hard work vs talent, and then had his protagonist be a genius learner with a magical beast, the strongest of his kind, inside him that gives him power.
Luffy´s experience with Shabondy, ID and Marineford was not to make him change, it was a test and challenge for him not to change, not to lose himself in tragedy, regret and self-pity, but to hold onto strengths and values he personified (determination, unbending will, trust between family/friends).
This all worked very well until Post- FI in my opinion, Fishman Island was still ok in regard to Luffy at least.
Punk Hazard was ok for the most part as well, but both Oda not doing his due diligence to explain why Luffy acts and the "Luffy is our messiah" speeches started. The thing with Brownbeard, Luffy getting angry about him and the children and so forth seemed like a cheap copy of pre-TS behavior without the necessary setup to feel credible and tangible. Luffy acted because he has to act that way for the narrative to progress, and it felt like Oda went through the motions he was used to for the entirety of OP.
And this has been a constant, Dressrosa he tried to do the same thing with Rebecca and Luffy caring about the citizens of Dressrosa for no reason, and now we have Tama once again with the same problem.
With Kinemon and Momo it works better at least because we spend so much time with them, and Luffy has built a relationship with Momo especially.
Add to that the fact that Oda is exaggerating jokes too much with Luffy´s stupidity, and you destroy the impression you have created pre-TS with a protagonist that was able to carry the story on his back.
What do you mean caring about the citizens of dressrosa for no reason , this is the character growth, he felt sorry for those people and used his power to help them , he became more compassionate after ace’s death , and this is good character growth , shounen readers are very shounenish that they think that being a better person is a bad thing lol
4/10 maybe. He's not (and has never been) the reason I'm reading One Piece, and I have no real investment in his story. I also found him to be a more compelling character preskip.
Furthermore, I think the story is too centred around Luffy to the extent that other characters become mere accessories to him (see Kidd and Law for recent examples). This impoverishes the entire franchise IMO.
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