General & Others The problem with Zkk
- Thread starter roronoa_fan
- Start date
because deep down they know its going to come true...and they don't know how to deal with it 
The main reason they have so much criticism towards the zkk theory is because they hate the idea of being wrong this whole time. 
In their opinion, it hurts the MC, because he has someone on his crew, worthy of being a yonko also. Really it just adds shine to luffy, that hes the most special in the verse; to have someone like zoro on his crew, is an accomplishment. 2 big jumps in their bounties are coming post wano.
In their opinion, it hurts the MC, because he has someone on his crew, worthy of being a yonko also. Really it just adds shine to luffy, that hes the most special in the verse; to have someone like zoro on his crew, is an accomplishment. 2 big jumps in their bounties are coming post wano.
But I won't say disliking the idea can't make sense. It's the Luffy show and people want the same program they've been watching for virtually 25 years. It's Luffy's opponent, and if he can't do this then what's the point?
Obviously I disagree. To begin with, Luffy wants to fight for himself and wants to win, but doesn't claim Kaido. He was clear upfront that Lucci and Crocodile were his opponents and reiterated that through his struggles with them. With Kaido, he starts by saying he wants to join Kinemon and the others. If he understands that someone else wants a piece, he'll respond accordingly. Knew nothing about the personal history but still let Law attempt the final hit on Doflamingo, for example. Not only did he want to join Kinemon, but he was totally fine with Zoro joining him for the fight with Kaido.
Which has been Zoro's recurring pattern throughout the arc. He begins the raid by finding Luffy even when others mention that he shouldn't be able to do so. He saves Luffy from the dog pile started by Apoo. He saves Luffy when the fight actually starts, shields him from the Boro Breath even though Luffy fails to respond in kind by tanking Indra, sacrifices himself to Hakai and still manages to save Luffy again after that. That's aside from making a hazardous deal to take down Kaido's best man. When does another shot start becoming a right that he hasn't earned?
Luffy's had his chance. Several. And no, landing another Kong Gun wasn't gonna seal the deal LMAO. He literally just admitted that he believed he lost until his fruit awakened to give him another shot. If you believe that getting downed by Kaido means he'll get up again, even if he's presented as DEAD, why does it seem impossible that Zoro will get up and do the thing he's been committed to doing this entire time?
There are multiple different reasons as to why they don't want it to happen.
As far back as I can remember, they have been saying that it is a "nonsense theory that will never happen".
But time and time again, you will find them making threads (for 4 years) on a theory they believe 100% will not happen. If you ask me that does not sound like someone that believes a theory to be false (I would call that cope or insecurity lol).
Anyway they will say stuff like:
To end this, to those that believe it will happen, it has been 4 years of them denying it and we are at the end of this current arc. No need to try and convince any of them, or even explain what the theory is about lol. Just wait for the next few chapters for all the hints and signs Oda has been putting in this and previous arcs.
Anyways it will most likely happen and I could not give a shite about the denials lol :cheers:
As far back as I can remember, they have been saying that it is a "nonsense theory that will never happen".
But time and time again, you will find them making threads (for 4 years) on a theory they believe 100% will not happen. If you ask me that does not sound like someone that believes a theory to be false (I would call that cope or insecurity lol).
Anyway they will say stuff like:
- It will dwarf Luffy's achievement (which goes to show insecurity no.1)
- How will Zoro kill Kaido and with what strength? (Oda gives Zoro AdCoC and has him defeat an opponent who's defense is superior to Kaido)
- Zoro has already faced his opponent (even though Zoro started off with Kaido and Big Mom as his opponents)
- He has already killed a dragon. (Countering a technique that just so happens to look like a dragon is the same as what Ryuma did apparently lol)
- How will Zoro get back up when he's facing ×2 pain and is dead (they are denying the dead thing now, cause it means he has to be revived and they fear he will get a power up with it. 2ndly Luffy got murdered and came back within the same chapter lol, Oda loves shutting them up).
- Zoro is not the MC, it is Luffy (even though Oda disagrees 🤷🏾♂️)
- Killing a defeated Kaido is humiliating for Zoro (Which is not what ZKK says at all, further proving that they do not even know what they are so vehemently against lol. Plus nobody cares what you see as humiliating for a fictional character)
- They bring up other opponents of Luffys as some kind of gotcha. Even though Zoro has never said he wanted them dead or went out of his to go after them.
- "But Luffy said he will defeat Kaido"... and Zoro said he will kill him. Somehow this is too much to understand for some lol. That 2 people might want their thing against 1 individual
- For some weird reason, they want copy & paste formula of previous arcs put into this arc as well. Copy & paste until the series finishes, and then they will say it is "peak fiction) lmao.
- At least in Naruto (the series most Juan Peso gobblers "dunk on"), beating Obito, fighting Madara, defeating Kaguya, Momoshiki, Isshiki was a team effort. Naruto & Boruto didn't all fight them 1 v 1 because "muh hi emci" lol
To end this, to those that believe it will happen, it has been 4 years of them denying it and we are at the end of this current arc. No need to try and convince any of them, or even explain what the theory is about lol. Just wait for the next few chapters for all the hints and signs Oda has been putting in this and previous arcs.
Anyways it will most likely happen and I could not give a shite about the denials lol :cheers:
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lol i swear, if we know it will come true, we wont be here arguing with you. ZKK will never happen, im now excited to see most of ztards reaction after the arc, what kind of mental gynastics will they bring.
I mean, it’s pretty simple, as someone who’s argued for it in the past.
The problem is that it would be unlike anything Oda has ever done before. I’d be the biggest shock in the series since Sakazuki killed Ace. Powerlevels and everything else aside, a protagonist outright killing a main villain would be wild. Oda’s never done anything like it before.
(And no, twenty odd years ago Zoro mentioning killing some goon offpanel in the past does not really count).
The only reason why it’s possible for an idea is because Kaido‘s story is leading up to his death, the importance of Oden to Kaido (with Zoro having his sword), the Ryuma story and Zoro‘s relation to the Shimotsuki. And that this is a big, game-changing arc like Marineford, it’s the sort of time that Oda might break his usual storytelling formula like he did there.
That is the main problem with it. The thing about “wouldn’t it make Luffy look bad?”, that‘s a question of whether Oda could pull it off right. I don’t think that’s an especially relevant point, that would just be up to his skills as a mangaka. The real issue is whether Oda would even do it in the first place.
The problem is that it would be unlike anything Oda has ever done before. I’d be the biggest shock in the series since Sakazuki killed Ace. Powerlevels and everything else aside, a protagonist outright killing a main villain would be wild. Oda’s never done anything like it before.
(And no, twenty odd years ago Zoro mentioning killing some goon offpanel in the past does not really count).
The only reason why it’s possible for an idea is because Kaido‘s story is leading up to his death, the importance of Oden to Kaido (with Zoro having his sword), the Ryuma story and Zoro‘s relation to the Shimotsuki. And that this is a big, game-changing arc like Marineford, it’s the sort of time that Oda might break his usual storytelling formula like he did there.
That is the main problem with it. The thing about “wouldn’t it make Luffy look bad?”, that‘s a question of whether Oda could pull it off right. I don’t think that’s an especially relevant point, that would just be up to his skills as a mangaka. The real issue is whether Oda would even do it in the first place.
Because they know Zoro will overshine Luffy's victory. Like TB, the one who stole the show was Zoro when it's 99% of time Luffy who receives all the glory. So it's not enough for Luffy fans and anti-Zoro fans. They want 100% and nothing for the others characters.
90% of ZKK believers want ZKK for its story, the hints, the parallels and don't even care if kaido is defeated or not.
If ZKK doesn't happen, well we will take a L and move on but if ZKK happens, they will try to avoid the L and be salty about it for decades.
So those are the real reasons.
90% of ZKK believers want ZKK for its story, the hints, the parallels and don't even care if kaido is defeated or not.
If ZKK doesn't happen, well we will take a L and move on but if ZKK happens, they will try to avoid the L and be salty about it for decades.
So those are the real reasons.
Black Blades are awakening of the Blades.
The parallel is already there.
Luffy advCOC. Zoro advCOC.
Luffy near-death. Zoro near-death.
Nika Fruit, a Zoan, having its own mind, chooses a worthy user. Enma, a named blade, having its own mind, chooses a worthy user.
Luffy awakened, a Sun God has been born. Zoro will awaken, a Sword God will be born.
The parallel is already there.
Luffy advCOC. Zoro advCOC.
Luffy near-death. Zoro near-death.
Nika Fruit, a Zoan, having its own mind, chooses a worthy user. Enma, a named blade, having its own mind, chooses a worthy user.
Luffy awakened, a Sun God has been born. Zoro will awaken, a Sword God will be born.
Hey,
i can tell you at least what my problems with ZKK are. You and some people may disagree, but thats fine, its just my opinion. Also, the arguments have no ranking or order.
Powerlevel
Zoro right now, in my opinion, is on YC1 level, he might be slightly above King and Katakuri right now, but still in YC1 range and far away of an Yonko. We see the big difference between YC1 und Yonko by comparison of Katakuri and Kaido, specially when we consider how much Power Ups Luffy already needed to fight Kaido. So i cant imagine to kill Kaido would be in any form honourable for Zoro or anyone, if he is (way) stronger than Zoro.
Luffy takes always the W
Luffy has always been the one taking down the final opponent, specially in a whole arc. He is also fighting Kaido so long and giving that final blow after to Zoro, just makes no sense to me. Zoro had his big opponent and even if i would claim Zoro to be way stronger then King, i know he had his fight already, while Luffy is in his. After all, Luffy is the MC and will take the main credit, doesn’t matter how much we like Zoro, Sanji, Kid, Law etc..
Luffy grew so much already...
In this arc, Luffy got already alot of powerups, from advCoA, CoC, fighting style over all, stamina and finally his awakening. He grew so much to get on Kaidos level to beat him, just to have him being overshadowed after that, by Zoro who got his own upgrades, which was used to beat King. Giving the vice-captain suddenly another upgrade to push him above the MC, which got a HUUUUGEEE powerup now just seems to be wrong, storywise.
Out of Character / Loyality
A very big point in my point of view is Zoros character. He is loyal to Luffy, above everything. He gave away his pride to get stronger for Luffy (his claim to Mihawk), he was ready to give everything and even die for Luffy and he respects him as captain. When Luffy wins his fight or claims this is his fight, Zoro wont interfere. And when Luffy already won and decided to let Kaido live (what he always do with his opponents), Zoro would never ignore the decision of his captain and act against this (indirect) orders. Loyality is a big point for Zoro (look at the Sanji-Situation, or the Usopp-Situation), so there is no way, in my opinion, where he throws away his loyality to gather something unhonorable like killing some already beaten enemy.
ZKK-Fandom...
Its sad that this is an argument already, but it is. If you state somewhere you don’t like the idea or you argue against it, you will get instantly some insults or claims how stupid your argumentation is or how biased you are. A few really argue with you and disagree, which is fine, but the majority just goes to troll you completely, just because you disagree. This point mainly makes me hate the theory. Not because of the theory itself, but because of the fandom putting this on the table on every damn thread. I understand the Zoro fandom like the theory and discussing it is fine and cool, but it got damn out of the hand and if every second thread is about ZKK in some way, its not fun anymore. Specially when another good theories just get lost. Overall, i would love to see more theories and great theorie-threads about different topics.
Like i said, you dont need to agree with me, we can discuss these points, but this is my point of view about this topic and it seems you asked for the reasons. :)
Gz
Panth
i can tell you at least what my problems with ZKK are. You and some people may disagree, but thats fine, its just my opinion. Also, the arguments have no ranking or order.
Powerlevel
Zoro right now, in my opinion, is on YC1 level, he might be slightly above King and Katakuri right now, but still in YC1 range and far away of an Yonko. We see the big difference between YC1 und Yonko by comparison of Katakuri and Kaido, specially when we consider how much Power Ups Luffy already needed to fight Kaido. So i cant imagine to kill Kaido would be in any form honourable for Zoro or anyone, if he is (way) stronger than Zoro.
Luffy takes always the W
Luffy has always been the one taking down the final opponent, specially in a whole arc. He is also fighting Kaido so long and giving that final blow after to Zoro, just makes no sense to me. Zoro had his big opponent and even if i would claim Zoro to be way stronger then King, i know he had his fight already, while Luffy is in his. After all, Luffy is the MC and will take the main credit, doesn’t matter how much we like Zoro, Sanji, Kid, Law etc..
Luffy grew so much already...
In this arc, Luffy got already alot of powerups, from advCoA, CoC, fighting style over all, stamina and finally his awakening. He grew so much to get on Kaidos level to beat him, just to have him being overshadowed after that, by Zoro who got his own upgrades, which was used to beat King. Giving the vice-captain suddenly another upgrade to push him above the MC, which got a HUUUUGEEE powerup now just seems to be wrong, storywise.
Out of Character / Loyality
A very big point in my point of view is Zoros character. He is loyal to Luffy, above everything. He gave away his pride to get stronger for Luffy (his claim to Mihawk), he was ready to give everything and even die for Luffy and he respects him as captain. When Luffy wins his fight or claims this is his fight, Zoro wont interfere. And when Luffy already won and decided to let Kaido live (what he always do with his opponents), Zoro would never ignore the decision of his captain and act against this (indirect) orders. Loyality is a big point for Zoro (look at the Sanji-Situation, or the Usopp-Situation), so there is no way, in my opinion, where he throws away his loyality to gather something unhonorable like killing some already beaten enemy.
ZKK-Fandom...
Its sad that this is an argument already, but it is. If you state somewhere you don’t like the idea or you argue against it, you will get instantly some insults or claims how stupid your argumentation is or how biased you are. A few really argue with you and disagree, which is fine, but the majority just goes to troll you completely, just because you disagree. This point mainly makes me hate the theory. Not because of the theory itself, but because of the fandom putting this on the table on every damn thread. I understand the Zoro fandom like the theory and discussing it is fine and cool, but it got damn out of the hand and if every second thread is about ZKK in some way, its not fun anymore. Specially when another good theories just get lost. Overall, i would love to see more theories and great theorie-threads about different topics.
Like i said, you dont need to agree with me, we can discuss these points, but this is my point of view about this topic and it seems you asked for the reasons. :)
Gz
Panth
