Questions & Mysteries Who is the traitor?
- Thread starter Johnny B. Decent
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If shinubu turned out to be the traitor, I swear I would be like Luffy's face when Usopp suggested him to steal poneglyphs in very cowardly way without facing any yonko
Point 1 is simple! Him suspecting doesn't matter, Jack went to confirm it and it lead to Zou, which made him sure of it.
Point 2 is also simple:
The vivre card belinged to either Nekumamushi or Inuarashi cause those two are the only two tying Kinemon and rest to Zou
All three of Kinemon, Raizo and Kanjuro split the vivre card of Inu or Neku when they got separated! Eventually, the one in Kanjuro's posession was handed over the same way he also handed Raizo's vivre card.
Point 3 is about timing, Kanjuro will not be able to hand every single info on everything at the right time of everything, he still delivered the info about it and they were contained. It's a weak reason to say he's out of the picture when so many other stuff points at him
So, no! Kanjuro theory debunked is not true lol.
I simply have life doing other stuff to stay here countering 24/7
He isn't actually.
1. Kanjuro didn't know Raizou was on Zou. He only suspected that was where he would be. Whereas Jack knew for a fact that Raizou was definetly on Zou and that the minks were hiding him.
2. The only way to find Zou is by having a mink onboard, or by having a vivre card of someone on Zou. If they had the vivre card of a mink on Zou, then that mink is most likely the traitor, as it would be hard to get a vivre card without that person's knowledge. Kanjuro wasn't on Zou at the time of Jack's first attack, so they couldn't have been using his vivre card, and he isn't a mink so he doesn't know how to get to Zou either.
3. Kanjuro knew about the ankle mark symbolism from before he even left Wano. He could've just snitched to Orochi and Kaido then and had all Kozuki allies captured then.
Orochi and Kaido only found out about the ankle tattoo after its meaning was told to the straw hats, Law and Carrot.
1. Kanjuro didn't know Raizou was on Zou. He only suspected that was where he would be. Whereas Jack knew for a fact that Raizou was definetly on Zou and that the minks were hiding him.
2. The only way to find Zou is by having a mink onboard, or by having a vivre card of someone on Zou. If they had the vivre card of a mink on Zou, then that mink is most likely the traitor, as it would be hard to get a vivre card without that person's knowledge. Kanjuro wasn't on Zou at the time of Jack's first attack, so they couldn't have been using his vivre card, and he isn't a mink so he doesn't know how to get to Zou either.
3. Kanjuro knew about the ankle mark symbolism from before he even left Wano. He could've just snitched to Orochi and Kaido then and had all Kozuki allies captured then.
Point 2 is also simple:
The vivre card belinged to either Nekumamushi or Inuarashi cause those two are the only two tying Kinemon and rest to Zou
All three of Kinemon, Raizo and Kanjuro split the vivre card of Inu or Neku when they got separated! Eventually, the one in Kanjuro's posession was handed over the same way he also handed Raizo's vivre card.
Point 3 is about timing, Kanjuro will not be able to hand every single info on everything at the right time of everything, he still delivered the info about it and they were contained. It's a weak reason to say he's out of the picture when so many other stuff points at him
So, no! Kanjuro theory debunked is not true lol.
I simply have life doing other stuff to stay here countering 24/7
I don't know who the traitor is, but I am not sure why some people are claiming that Jack had Raizo's VC. If he had Raizo's VC why didn't he go just straight to the big tree where Raizo was hidden?
Sure, you can claim that he likes to fight and destroy stuff, but when he got tired and used poison gas after five (was it five?) days why didn't he went for Raizo directly instead of spending time torturing the Minks? And why didn't he split the VC in half and told his men to go after Raizo when he left to save Mingo?
Nah, makes no sense to me. Most likely he had a Mink VC. This does not imply that the traitor is a Mink, but we have seen that Minks leave Zou and travel around (they were also in WCI). It could be that the BP acquired their VC from a random Mink before the current situation.
Sure, you can claim that he likes to fight and destroy stuff, but when he got tired and used poison gas after five (was it five?) days why didn't he went for Raizo directly instead of spending time torturing the Minks? And why didn't he split the VC in half and told his men to go after Raizo when he left to save Mingo?
Nah, makes no sense to me. Most likely he had a Mink VC. This does not imply that the traitor is a Mink, but we have seen that Minks leave Zou and travel around (they were also in WCI). It could be that the BP acquired their VC from a random Mink before the current situation.
No he didn't. Jack knew Raizou was on Zou. He didn't just have a hunch.
Jack didn't just want to torture the minks. He wanted to have Raizou. He didn't just beat up Sheepshead over a hunch. He knew for a fact that Raizou was on Zou somewhere. Hence why he went through the effort of having to return and not simply letting the minks die from their previous attack.
Kanjuro cannot be the traitor since Kanjuro himself didn't know for sure that Raizou had even made it to Zou.
Have I simply misremembered or are you making stuff up? When did Kin emon, Raizou and Kanjuro split a vivre card? If they had vivre cards of each other, then there wouldn't have needed to be such a big search for Kanjuro on Dressrosa, nor would they have had to ask where Raizou was when they arrived on the back of Zou.
So taking your stance, some days before the events of Dressrosa, Kanjuro managed to inform Kaido and Orochi that Raizou was on Zou, (despite having no confirmation of this), and whilst contacting Kaido and Orochi, he refused to mention anything about the kozuki ankle symbol (despite having full knowledge of its meaning), and hence was selective in the information he gave?
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Reading your first post again, there's more that either doesn't add up or is simply wrong.
No one wondered why their ship was sabotaged, because it wasn't sabotaged...
It was clearly stated that they cashed because of their inexperience. Not because Kanjuro secretly sabotaged their ship.
Your post completely skips over everything we know about Kanjuro's character. Not to mention, we know that he is part of the prophecy.
So the prophecy was wrong, and there were actually only 8 samurai that will emerge to kill Orochi? Prophecies can be vague and mysterious, but you'd think that they'd at least get the number correct.
Kanjuro cannot be the traitor since Kanjuro himself didn't know for sure that Raizou had even made it to Zou.
Have I simply misremembered or are you making stuff up? When did Kin emon, Raizou and Kanjuro split a vivre card? If they had vivre cards of each other, then there wouldn't have needed to be such a big search for Kanjuro on Dressrosa, nor would they have had to ask where Raizou was when they arrived on the back of Zou.
So taking your stance, some days before the events of Dressrosa, Kanjuro managed to inform Kaido and Orochi that Raizou was on Zou, (despite having no confirmation of this), and whilst contacting Kaido and Orochi, he refused to mention anything about the kozuki ankle symbol (despite having full knowledge of its meaning), and hence was selective in the information he gave?
----
Reading your first post again, there's more that either doesn't add up or is simply wrong.
No one wondered why their ship was sabotaged, because it wasn't sabotaged...
Your post completely skips over everything we know about Kanjuro's character. Not to mention, we know that he is part of the prophecy.
I'm curious with the Raizo's vivre card talk, when was this stated? What I do remember is Kin'enom's group being chased and Beast Pirates seeing them getting separated so they could easily inform Kaido/Orochi leading into Jack showing up. Again, those theories so far are too convenient but don't add up in many points.
As for Zou's location we could even get a very different outcome and find out they got the Vivre Card from a relative of Hawkins' mink crewmate, but no real evidence here.
As for Zou's location we could even get a very different outcome and find out they got the Vivre Card from a relative of Hawkins' mink crewmate, but no real evidence here.
Hah exactly what I said. Great minds think alike. But I thought it first and you copied it. Give me my credit
It was Kanjuro since he didnt know where on Zou Raizo would be.
Its either Carrot or Kanjuro.
If it is Carrot then the bitch is smart af. She followed the crew to WCI so she could protect them till they get to Wano and Kaido himself could deal with them. But then again her moment with Sanji at the end of WCI makes me think otherwise. Unless Sanji got fooled twice by a fake performance.
It must be Kanjuro. He was alone in DR for a period of time. Long enough for Doffy to get to him.
Damn you made the Kanjuro theory first. I guess I psychically copied you. Good work. Great minds think alike.
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It was Kanjuro since he didnt know where on Zou Raizo would be.
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Its either Carrot or Kanjuro.
If it is Carrot then the bitch is smart af. She followed the crew to WCI so she could protect them till they get to Wano and Kaido himself could deal with them. But then again her moment with Sanji at the end of WCI makes me think otherwise. Unless Sanji got fooled twice by a fake performance.
It must be Kanjuro. He was alone in DR for a period of time. Long enough for Doffy to get to him.
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Damn you made the Kanjuro theory first. I guess I psychically copied you. Good work. Great minds think alike.
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Well, Kanjuro being imprisonned could also be for appearances. When Doffy knew that Kinnemon and the SHs are coming to DR he put Kanjuro in there just for appearance. Knowing how smart he is, he could easily come up with that plan
@Sadistic Senpai and I already had this discussion on OJ at least a year ago
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@Sadistic Senpai and I already had this discussion on OJ at least a year ago
No he didn't. Jack knew Raizou was on Zou. He didn't just have a hunch.
Jack didn't just want to torture the minks. He wanted to have Raizou. He didn't just beat up Sheepshead over a hunch. He knew for a fact that Raizou was on Zou somewhere. Hence why he went through the effort of having to return and not simply letting the minks die from their previous attack.
Kanjuro cannot be the traitor since Kanjuro himself didn't know for sure that Raizou had even made it to Zou.
Have I simply misremembered or are you making stuff up? When did Kin emon, Raizou and Kanjuro split a vivre card? If they had vivre cards of each other, then there wouldn't have needed to be such a big search for Kanjuro on Dressrosa, nor would they have had to ask where Raizou was when they arrived on the back of Zou.
So taking your stance, some days before the events of Dressrosa, Kanjuro managed to inform Kaido and Orochi that Raizou was on Zou, (despite having no confirmation of this), and whilst contacting Kaido and Orochi, he refused to mention anything about the kozuki ankle symbol (despite having full knowledge of its meaning), and hence was selective in the information he gave?
----
Reading your first post again, there's more that either doesn't add up or is simply wrong.
No one wondered why their ship was sabotaged, because it wasn't sabotaged...
It was clearly stated that they cashed because of their inexperience. Not because Kanjuro secretly sabotaged their ship.
Your post completely skips over everything we know about Kanjuro's character. Not to mention, we know that he is part of the prophecy.
So the prophecy was wrong, and there were actually only 8 samurai that will emerge to kill Orochi? Prophecies can be vague and mysterious, but you'd think that they'd at least get the number correct.
Kanjuro cannot be the traitor since Kanjuro himself didn't know for sure that Raizou had even made it to Zou.
Have I simply misremembered or are you making stuff up? When did Kin emon, Raizou and Kanjuro split a vivre card? If they had vivre cards of each other, then there wouldn't have needed to be such a big search for Kanjuro on Dressrosa, nor would they have had to ask where Raizou was when they arrived on the back of Zou.
So taking your stance, some days before the events of Dressrosa, Kanjuro managed to inform Kaido and Orochi that Raizou was on Zou, (despite having no confirmation of this), and whilst contacting Kaido and Orochi, he refused to mention anything about the kozuki ankle symbol (despite having full knowledge of its meaning), and hence was selective in the information he gave?
----
Reading your first post again, there's more that either doesn't add up or is simply wrong.
No one wondered why their ship was sabotaged, because it wasn't sabotaged...
Your post completely skips over everything we know about Kanjuro's character. Not to mention, we know that he is part of the prophecy.
Same with many other points. Currently, we all are speculating. When I say that the three split the vivre card of that mink person (to me it's either Inu/Neku) I do not mean that it was mentioned in a chapter, I simply am making a speculation that they did that based on what logically I would have done if I was in their shoes.
It's like let's say I'm going with two of my friends on a very difficult journey where anything could happen to us, and I have the location on my phone on google maps LOL, logically I would share the location with them just in any case, someone needed to use it.
So, again, here we are all are making the best possible assumption from analysing chapters, and analysing characters and their locations during certain events ...etc.
This is all speculation by myself, it never was stated, and I never stated it was stated in any chapter. It's just a deduction besed on the the question:
"Why did Jack ONLY asked for Raizo? Not kinemon or Kanjuro or Momo? if they all are supposed to be headed to Zou?
And because of Jack attitude during Zou of refusing Sheapshead and Ginrummy answer that Raizo wasn't there so they left. It's almost as if Jack was 100% certain of Raizo being there (which is why the community of One Piece after the Raizo is safe moment happened, many people clapped for Jack cause he was right and wasn't just destroying for nothing)
So, again, these are all just speculation and not facts stated in manga. I wanted to clarify that so that no one accuses me of twisting facts LOL
Anyway, I hope soon, Oda reveals the traitor, if it turns out to be Kanjuro, I'd be jumping from happiness cause I know greatness will come out of this. It would legitimately mean Kinemon had his main match of the arc, and it will be very dramatic and very emotional considering how close they are. I think he's the closest one to Kinemon compared to other scabbard, which honestly would make it 10x worth it to see them fight
No he didn't. Jack knew Raizou was on Zou. He didn't just have a hunch.
Jack didn't just want to torture the minks. He wanted to have Raizou. He didn't just beat up Sheepshead over a hunch. He knew for a fact that Raizou was on Zou somewhere. Hence why he went through the effort of having to return and not simply letting the minks die from their previous attack.
Kanjuro cannot be the traitor since Kanjuro himself didn't know for sure that Raizou had even made it to Zou.
Have I simply misremembered or are you making stuff up? When did Kin emon, Raizou and Kanjuro split a vivre card? If they had vivre cards of each other, then there wouldn't have needed to be such a big search for Kanjuro on Dressrosa, nor would they have had to ask where Raizou was when they arrived on the back of Zou.
So taking your stance, some days before the events of Dressrosa, Kanjuro managed to inform Kaido and Orochi that Raizou was on Zou, (despite having no confirmation of this), and whilst contacting Kaido and Orochi, he refused to mention anything about the kozuki ankle symbol (despite having full knowledge of its meaning), and hence was selective in the information he gave?
----
Reading your first post again, there's more that either doesn't add up or is simply wrong.
No one wondered why their ship was sabotaged, because it wasn't sabotaged...
It was clearly stated that they cashed because of their inexperience. Not because Kanjuro secretly sabotaged their ship.
Your post completely skips over everything we know about Kanjuro's character. Not to mention, we know that he is part of the prophecy.
So the prophecy was wrong, and there were actually only 8 samurai that will emerge to kill Orochi? Prophecies can be vague and mysterious, but you'd think that they'd at least get the number correct.
Kanjuro cannot be the traitor since Kanjuro himself didn't know for sure that Raizou had even made it to Zou.
Have I simply misremembered or are you making stuff up? When did Kin emon, Raizou and Kanjuro split a vivre card? If they had vivre cards of each other, then there wouldn't have needed to be such a big search for Kanjuro on Dressrosa, nor would they have had to ask where Raizou was when they arrived on the back of Zou.
So taking your stance, some days before the events of Dressrosa, Kanjuro managed to inform Kaido and Orochi that Raizou was on Zou, (despite having no confirmation of this), and whilst contacting Kaido and Orochi, he refused to mention anything about the kozuki ankle symbol (despite having full knowledge of its meaning), and hence was selective in the information he gave?
----
Reading your first post again, there's more that either doesn't add up or is simply wrong.
No one wondered why their ship was sabotaged, because it wasn't sabotaged...
Your post completely skips over everything we know about Kanjuro's character. Not to mention, we know that he is part of the prophecy.
Who is your candidate btw?
Because other characters that are often discussed (Carrot, Shinobu, Law) have a million times more arguments against them being the traitor, than Kanjuro does.
Why you ignore me 
That's the third time I've asked this question 
I'm going to start thinking that this story of all the Minks people who know where is the Road Poneglyph/Raizou is just a fake new cuz people desperately avoid answering when someone do a more in-depth search
Easy to state "arguments" but when you can't say when it was showed in the manga
@Sadistic Senpai
Where it's stated all the Minks Kingdom know exactly where Raizo is ?
That's the third time I've asked this question I'm going to start thinking that this story of all the Minks people who know where is the Road Poneglyph/Raizou is just a fake new cuz people desperately avoid answering when someone do a more in-depth search
Easy to state "arguments" but when you can't say when it was showed in the manga @Sadistic Senpai
Where it's stated all the Minks Kingdom know exactly where Raizo is ?
Why you ignore me That's the third time I've asked this question
I'm going to start thinking that this story of all the Minks people who know where is the Road Poneglyph/Raizou is just a fake new cuz people desperately avoid answering when someone do a more in-depth search Easy to state "arguments" but when you can't say when it was showed in the manga
@Sadistic Senpai
Where it's stated all the Minks Kingdom know exactly where Raizo is ?
That's the third time I've asked this question I'm going to start thinking that this story of all the Minks people who know where is the Road Poneglyph/Raizou is just a fake new cuz people desperately avoid answering when someone do a more in-depth search
Easy to state "arguments" but when you can't say when it was showed in the manga @Sadistic Senpai
Where it's stated all the Minks Kingdom know exactly where Raizo is ?
Why you ignore me That's the third time I've asked this question
I'm going to start thinking that this story of all the Minks people who know where is the Road Poneglyph/Raizou is just a fake new cuz people desperately avoid answering when someone do a more in-depth search Easy to state "arguments" but when you can't say when it was showed in the manga
@Sadistic Senpai
Where it's stated all the Minks Kingdom know exactly where Raizo is ?
That's the third time I've asked this question I'm going to start thinking that this story of all the Minks people who know where is the Road Poneglyph/Raizou is just a fake new cuz people desperately avoid answering when someone do a more in-depth search
Easy to state "arguments" but when you can't say when it was showed in the manga @Sadistic Senpai
Where it's stated all the Minks Kingdom know exactly where Raizo is ?
Anyway, The very same manner you proposed that we need to provide evidence that all minks know where Raizo is in whale forest, in the same manner, I will ask you "when was it stated that they don't know"
So, what I'm trying to say is that, as far as what Oda showed, when the reveal of Raizo is safe to SHs, it was hinted by Usopp who was crying "so you all knew, and you all protected the secret?"
So, sure, you may demand that Oda shows a panel of someone saying literally "We all knew his location in whale" which honestly is waaaay too picky with all respect. but that's not actually something to stop our argument.
Because just like you ask me to provide a panel stating they all knew, I can ask you to provide me a panel stating otherwise which is not all of them knew where he is located in Zou
People who were fighting were coming back to Raizo to feed him while they were injured, REGULAR PEOPLE
Also, I hate the Cena face with Smoothie LOL
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I would be surprised and entertained if there was more than just one person honestly. This way Oda can link the events even easier.
But if it's two person, then I would expect one person very close and the other is not so close. Kinda like how Reiner and Bertholt fro AOT where the one we felt close to was Reiner while no one even payed attention to Bertolt as a character before that moment. Just an opinion. But naturally if there was more than one traitor, they will all be revealed at same time, just like how CP9 happened. Oda will not drag it out
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its kanjuro
snitched on them in the bathhouse
snitched on yasu
was imprisoned in dressrosa but was untouched
hasnt done much this arc
has a convenient painting power like sai from naruto to deliver his messages. Didnt report on udon cause he was never there . he isnt gathering any ships , or intel or inspiring the locals. all e has done this arc is carry yasu's body.
only a few of them went 20 yrs into the future but only 3 would know where raizo was going and that was kinemon momo and kanjuro. kanjuro was in dressrossa while the other two split up. enough time to be a snitch for both kaido and doffy.
kiku would assume those three would be together but wouldnt know raizo split off at zou. its the painter
snitched on them in the bathhouse
snitched on yasu
was imprisoned in dressrosa but was untouched
hasnt done much this arc
has a convenient painting power like sai from naruto to deliver his messages. Didnt report on udon cause he was never there . he isnt gathering any ships , or intel or inspiring the locals. all e has done this arc is carry yasu's body.
only a few of them went 20 yrs into the future but only 3 would know where raizo was going and that was kinemon momo and kanjuro. kanjuro was in dressrossa while the other two split up. enough time to be a snitch for both kaido and doffy.
kiku would assume those three would be together but wouldnt know raizo split off at zou. its the painter
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