Powers & Abilities Physical Skills in Attack Power vs Haki

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

How big of a role does physical attributes and techniques play in attack potency / attack power?

I know the answer will differ from character to character but in a given haki laced attack, which contributes more the damage, haki or physical attributes?

Another way of asking this question is asking how much Haki influences someones attack power. Can a character who isn't that physically strong compensate for their lack in strength with insane levels of armament haki potency and power? Or will their physical strength be a much larger limiter?

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Haki does not change the AP, it's just boost the defense up.

 

[Uncle Van]

Since its YOU, lets use BM as an example.

BM(raw strength, no haki) vs Luffy(Kong Gun, basic haki)= BM matches it but it hurts her arm.

BM(raw strength, haki) vs Luffy(KG and basic haki)=BM matches it without damage

BM(raw strength and haki) vs G3 Luffy(Elephant Gun and ACOA)=BM sends him flying but arm is visibly damaged.

SnakemanLuffy and Katakuri had almost equal attack power and physical strength, but Luffy was the only one hurt when they matched blows cause Kata'a COA was stronger.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

Haki does not change the AP, it's just boost the defense up.

I don't think thats true.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

Since its YOU, lets use BM as an example.

BM(raw strength, no haki) vs Luffy(Kong Gun, basic haki)= BM matches it but it hurts her arm.

BM(raw strength, haki) vs Luffy(KG and basic haki)=BM matches it without damage

BM(raw strength and haki) vs G3 Luffy(Elephant Gun and ACOA)=BM sends him flying but arm is visibly damaged.

SnakemanLuffy and Katakuri had almost equal attack power and physical strength, but Luffy was the only one hurt when they matched blows cause Kata'a COA was stronger.

So... give me a percentage.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Rayleigh just sticking his hand in the air was able to send a massive elephant flying into the sky with just his haki (probably not even his full strength haki either)

Meanwhile Big Mom while enraged (a supposed top tier in terms of physical strength) kinda sorta cracked a tiny hill with her physical strength.

Old Hyou (a physical fodder) could also one shot Zoan Devil Fruit users with his Ryou (which is probably the weakest Ryou we’ve ever seen)

Take your pick, but to me it looks like advanced haki has the potential to be be much stronger than physical strength.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

Rayleigh just sticking his hand in the air was able to send a massive elephant flying into the sky with just his haki (probably not even his full strength haki either)

Meanwhile Big Mom while enraged (a supposed top tier in terms of physical strength) kinda sorta cracked a tiny hill with her physical strength.

Old Hyou (a physical fodder) could also one shot Zoan Devil Fruit users with his Ryou (which is probably the weakest Ryou we’ve ever seen)

Take your pick, but to me it looks like advanced haki has the potential to be be much stronger than physical strength.

Can you give me a percentage? Say someone who has absolute mastery of armament haki but isn't as physically strong as they were before. Would it be like a 20/80 split with haki making up 80% of that force.

 

[Rmstorm]

Can you give me a percentage? Say someone who has absolute mastery of armament haki but isn't as physically strong as they were before. Would it be like a 20/80 split with haki making up 80% of that force.

Yes, that is why Old people are still strong. This is proven by Sanji using haki while in Nami's body when law swapped his soul.

 

[Finalbeta]

Haki is almost everything in the OP verse

Steong haki brings you everywhere, that's how Mihawk, Shanks and Garp succeeded that way despite being no DF users.

 

[trav]

haki contributes way more than physical strength.
if I had to put a number on it I would say 99:1. I am only referring to attacks here. sword slashes, punches, etc.

sounds absurd? yeah, it so is. unfortunately that is the direction the manga is taking.

BM is one of the physically strongest characters is the series. since childhood even.
then Luffy gets the command from Hyou to not use force to match her blows.
Luffys haki alone is supposedly enough to block the punch of a physical monster.
Luffy is not weak, but he is by no means on the level of BM physically.

more evidence. a frail and weak Hyou could one shot people in the arena with his haki blasts.
Ray and Luffy could blow up the collars with no physical force at all.

most of the strong haki users also tend to be physically strong aswell so it is a topic that leaves room for much debate.
for me, at least, the recent chapters are enough to convince me that haki tops just about anything physical.
although, physical strength is a requirement to pull off feats like the one Jozu did at MF.
its still useful, but to knock someone out, haki alone is enough.



NOTE: there are still powerful attacks that rely on physical strength

 

[Luffy is the mc]

CoA in offensive mode hardens the part of the body used to strike.
So basically, just imagine punching a wall a few times at full power first with a fist made out of flesh and bones, you'll break your hands. And then imagine doing the same with a fist made out of steel, there's a chance you can put a crack in the wall while using the same force.
So the AP increases with CoA.

And with advanced CoA it's even more broken since it affects the inside and can bypass basically any natural defenses.

Raw power would still count though. Especially if both CoA users have a similar level of haki.

We'll have a clearer view after oda uses the ad coa in luffy's fight.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Haki does not change the AP, it's just boost the defense up.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Can a character who isn't that physically strong compensate for their lack in strength with insane levels of armament haki potency and power? Or will their physical strength be a much larger limiter?

The fact that Shanks and kaido are both Emperors means that Haki mastery can easily compensate for just muscles.

But there's a limit. Haki requires actual physical strength to use as well. So you literally can't be like a pure weakling in physical strength and just compensate entire on haki.

It's more of a balance I guess

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Haki does not change the AP, it's just boost the defense up.

Say what now? We just saw a demonstration of Enma draining Zoro's haki to cut a cliff

 

[NeutralWatcher]

I think it boosts both defense and AP. Luffy needed haki to destroy pacifista. We also saw Luffy covered his hand with haki to block sword attack so it works for both.

 

[Finalbeta]

I think it boosts both defense and AP. Luffy needed haki to destroy pacifista. We also saw Luffy covered his hand with haki to block sword attack so it works for both.

Yes Oda showed us how important Haki is for him during the Sabaody arc.

 

[trav]

It's more of a balance I guess

Hyougoros haki blasts tell a different story. physical strength is not a requirement for strong haki.
you will not find many (or any) exceptional haki users that do not also have very good physical stats though.

one is not a requirement for the other, but they mostly go hand in hand.
you train your physical stats before you learn to utilize haki, or something like that.

 

[Garps tekkai]

Primebeard vs Roger says it all.
The ratio between strength and haki changes drastically with top notch CoA control. It's imo to a point where strength becomes totally insignificant. Each of them seemingly could have bust up that island. Shanks and Mihawk's duels shook the grandline,.. It's what they said.

That's obviously nowhere near comparable to all the other advanced CoA feats we have seen utill now.
Luffy and his "tree punch" for example, seems to be the near the minimum, totally amateurish in comparison.
An indicator for a higher amount of haki, seems to be those tendrils on swords. Imo Oda will also visualize post Enma Zoro's high end moves by adding much greater tendrils to his blades.
Later on Luffy might have big haki "clouds" around his fists.
But yeah, going from what we have seen from Zoro or Raisin or other characters who did not even have small tendrils at all and just hardened weapons, it's all absolute child's play compared to Roger's and WB's haki game.

They prolly did, what Enma did, but w/o going into drawback territory (arm crippling). Enma prolly went to that 120%.
Additionally their overflowing haki seemed to be focused, completely attached to their weapons and it did not simply flew off their weapons like it seemed to happen within the Enma scene.
Interesting detail, most guys also have their hands or the handle of their weapon covered. Seems to be a waste tho.
In Roger's and WB's case not even the handle was clad in haki. They prolly pumped the complete - drawback less- 100% into their attacks.
And when it's about those, the ratio imo could easily be around 95 (haki) to 5 (strength). That would also explain how he casuslly can send Oden flying across a freakin island.
Tho logically it should drain their haki tank much more than less used haki, so their casual haki game might not necessarily be on that kinda lvl. Those were probably more like high end advCoA lvl2 moves.

Put into perspective:
Luffy with his novice use could have, going by Hyo's words, deflected base BM's slap already.
How much of a strength boost would he need to replicate the same with just Hardening? A big one, that's clear. Perhaps one of the stronger G3 attacks would be enough.
And his moves seem to be "<<<<<<<" to Roger's from what I can tell.

Tomorrow I wanted to create a thread about this. I guess things happen :D

 

[Rmstorm]

Primebeard vs Roger says it all.
The ratio between strength and haki changes drastically with top notch CoA control. It's imo to a point where strength becomes totally insignificant. Each of them seemingly could have bust up that island. Shanks and Mihawk's duels shook the grandline,.. It's what they said.

That's obviously nowhere near comparable to all the other advanced CoA feats we have seen utill now.
Luffy and his "tree punch" for example, seems to be the near the minimum, totally amateurish in comparison.
An indicator for a higher amount of haki, seems to be those tendrils on swords. Imo Oda will also visualize post Enma Zoro's high end moves by adding much greater tendrils to his blades.
Later on Luffy might have big haki "clouds" around his fists.
But yeah, going from what we have seen from Zoro or Raisin or other characters who did not even have small tendrils at all and just hardened weapons, it's all absolute child's play compared to Roger's and WB's haki game.

They prolly did, what Enma did, but w/o going into drawback territory (arm crippling). Enma prolly went to that 120%.
Additionally their overflowing haki seemed to be focused, completely attached to their weapons and it did not simply flew off their weapons like it seemed to happen within the Enma scene.
Interesting detail, most guys also have their hands or the handle of their weapon covered. Seems to be a waste tho.
In Roger's and WB's case not even the handle was clad in haki. They prolly pumped the complete - drawback less- 100% into their attacks.
And when it's about those, the ratio imo could easily be around 95 (haki) to 5 (strength). That would also explain how he casuslly can send Oden flying across a freakin island.
Tho logically it should drain their haki tank much more than less used haki, so their casual haki game might not necessarily be on that kinda lvl. Those were probably more like high end advCoA lvl2 moves.

Put into perspective:
Luffy with his novice use could have, going by Hyo's words, deflected base BM's slap already.
How much of a strength boost would he need to replicate the same with just Hardening? A big one, that's clear. Perhaps one of the stronger G3 attacks would be enough.
And his moves seem to be "<<<<<<<" to Roger's from what I can tell.

Tomorrow I wanted to create a thread about this. I guess things happen :D

Roger and Whitebeard had their haki clashing due to mixing their Conquerors Haki with their Advanced Armament Haki.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Hyougoros haki blasts tell a different story. physical strength is not a requirement for strong haki.

Cheap ass Gifters arent a big deal remember

And people keep forgetting that Haki blasts are not like greater than regular hardening. Like Sentomaru and Marigold were able to use this "advanced armament" and yet I'm very sure Shanks' regular Armament hardening can break all these guy"s "advanced armament"

All Hyogoro did was beat Alapaca man. That's not a very big feat. He wasn't on death's door. He was strong enough to dodge literal gun fire so he was definitely some overly frail old man by then.

And yes, Haki requires physical strength because luffy literally says so. Luffy says "I can't use haki because if seastone hand cuffs". This statement literally means Haki requires physical stamina to use