Powers & Abilities Physical Skills in Attack Power vs Haki
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Luffy could not use haki because his devil fruit was draining his stamina. He could still move. Also what you are saying holds no merit because the manga actaully tells and shows you that you don't need a lot of physical force to use Advanced Armament Haki.
Hyougoro literally told Luffy he was using too much brute force in chapter 955.
Hyougoro literally told Luffy he was using too much brute force in chapter 955.
It's simple.
Haki is like steel. Or at least it makes things harder.
If you add Haki to a stick, the stick becomes as hard as steel.
If you add Haki to concrete, the concrete becomes even harder than a stick with Haki.
If Haki = 10 and your strenth = 10, your overall output would be 20.
That's why Luffy was able to defeat the Gorgon sisters without Haki even though they used Haki.
Initially, Luffy's attacks got deflected by their Haki defence because his attacks were too weak.
As soon as Luffy used Gear 2nd, his speed and power increased, thus his speed and power was greater than their combined defence level and Haki defence combined.
He defeated them with brute strength enough.
Another example is Luffy vs Katakuri.
Katakuri's Haki was so hard that Luffy's fist hurt from punching him.
However, Gear 4th gave Luffy increased physical power while his Haki strength remained the same. The strength of an attack is a combination of both Haki and physical attributes. Luffy was able to overcome Katakuri because Gear 4th just has immense power especially as it's combined with Haki.
So, yes, the harder or stronger someone is without Haki, the more effective Haki will make that attack.
That's why a stick imbued with Haki acts like a steel pipe instead of a stick because it's made immensely harder due to Haki.
Basically, if something is harder, it will do more damage and it will be more protective. That's literally all Haki does fundamentally. Just makes things harder.
You'd feel more pain being hit with a steel pipe than with a twig even if you got hit by the same amount of force.
Haki is like steel. Or at least it makes things harder.
If you add Haki to a stick, the stick becomes as hard as steel.
If you add Haki to concrete, the concrete becomes even harder than a stick with Haki.
If Haki = 10 and your strenth = 10, your overall output would be 20.
That's why Luffy was able to defeat the Gorgon sisters without Haki even though they used Haki.
Initially, Luffy's attacks got deflected by their Haki defence because his attacks were too weak.
As soon as Luffy used Gear 2nd, his speed and power increased, thus his speed and power was greater than their combined defence level and Haki defence combined.
He defeated them with brute strength enough.
Another example is Luffy vs Katakuri.
Katakuri's Haki was so hard that Luffy's fist hurt from punching him.
However, Gear 4th gave Luffy increased physical power while his Haki strength remained the same. The strength of an attack is a combination of both Haki and physical attributes. Luffy was able to overcome Katakuri because Gear 4th just has immense power especially as it's combined with Haki.
So, yes, the harder or stronger someone is without Haki, the more effective Haki will make that attack.
That's why a stick imbued with Haki acts like a steel pipe instead of a stick because it's made immensely harder due to Haki.
Basically, if something is harder, it will do more damage and it will be more protective. That's literally all Haki does fundamentally. Just makes things harder.
You'd feel more pain being hit with a steel pipe than with a twig even if you got hit by the same amount of force.
Also, it's BS that Haki is affected by physical stamina.
Luffy was able to run away from Katakuri meaning he had stamina, but he still couldn't use Haki.
Haki has no relation to stamina or physical attributes. It simple finishes if you use it up and you have to wait at least 10 minutes for it to restore.
Luffy was able to run away from Katakuri meaning he had stamina, but he still couldn't use Haki.
Haki has no relation to stamina or physical attributes. It simple finishes if you use it up and you have to wait at least 10 minutes for it to restore.
Okay let's go step by step.
You don't need a lot of physical strength to use advanced armament. That's correct.
What's also correct is that advanced armament IS NOT equal to a lot of haki being used. For example the haki Zoro used to Cut Pica is MUCH greater than the haki Marigold was using. Zoro used regular Hardening while Marigold used advanced armament yet Zoro is still using much more haki than Marigold.
That means Hyogoro smacking Alpacaman with Advanced armament haki blasts IS NOT the same as Hyogoro using a lot haki.
Next. The only thing Seastone hand cuffs do to devil fruit users is DRAIN physical stamina. Therefore when Luffy says "I can't use haki because of seastone" he is saying "I can't use haki because my stamina is low". Therefore Haki requires Physical stamina to use
You don't need a lot of physical strength to use advanced armament. That's correct.
What's also correct is that advanced armament IS NOT equal to a lot of haki being used. For example the haki Zoro used to Cut Pica is MUCH greater than the haki Marigold was using. Zoro used regular Hardening while Marigold used advanced armament yet Zoro is still using much more haki than Marigold.
That means Hyogoro smacking Alpacaman with Advanced armament haki blasts IS NOT the same as Hyogoro using a lot haki.
Next. The only thing Seastone hand cuffs do to devil fruit users is DRAIN physical stamina. Therefore when Luffy says "I can't use haki because of seastone" he is saying "I can't use haki because my stamina is low". Therefore Haki requires Physical stamina to use
And? You obviously need to be strong in order to have strong haki in the first place. It's not mutually exclusive obviously. And I never argued that.
With higher lvl of haki control (Roger & WB) physical strength becomes a totally insignificant part of the actual attack power though. It's obviously a gradual process. Luffy's advanced CoA might pack a weaker punch than his Kong Gun for example. There the ratio isn't totally off yet.
EoS Luffy's max CoA output will be >>>>>>>>>>> to his base strength tho. Similar to Roger and Primebeard.
I think you misunderstood me there.
And btw it's evident:
Even though Oden is a stat beast, he was sent flying across the island by a sword swing from Roger.
And going by Oden's clash with WB, both Roger and WB are definitely not like 20times physically stronger than him.
That looked like Boundman vs base Doflamingo. Hopefully no one believes that this happened because of pure stats.
Stats have a certain limit afterall and Oden was pretty gifted already, probably near human peak.
He could also go at it with base Kaido in cqc. Roger still did what he did With Oden tho.
Thus that power is mainly generated through haki. - > High end CoA completely outclasses physical strength.
With higher lvl of haki control (Roger & WB) physical strength becomes a totally insignificant part of the actual attack power though. It's obviously a gradual process. Luffy's advanced CoA might pack a weaker punch than his Kong Gun for example. There the ratio isn't totally off yet.
EoS Luffy's max CoA output will be >>>>>>>>>>> to his base strength tho. Similar to Roger and Primebeard.
I think you misunderstood me there.
And btw it's evident:
Even though Oden is a stat beast, he was sent flying across the island by a sword swing from Roger.
And going by Oden's clash with WB, both Roger and WB are definitely not like 20times physically stronger than him.
That looked like Boundman vs base Doflamingo. Hopefully no one believes that this happened because of pure stats.
Stats have a certain limit afterall and Oden was pretty gifted already, probably near human peak.
He could also go at it with base Kaido in cqc. Roger still did what he did With Oden tho.
Thus that power is mainly generated through haki. - > High end CoA completely outclasses physical strength.
yet Hyou did not knock anyone out prio to that with regular strength.
Rayleigh casually swatted a giant enraged elephant away.
the use of haki like this seemingly requires no physical strength, but the outcome is very powerful.
seastone drains his power. its not said which power that is. willpower, df power, strength? I guess its all of them without correlation. if you can not use haki at all then there is not much haki it could drain from you.
Luffy learned to endure seastone and pull off physical feats in Udon while he was still unable to perform haki feats. so, Luffy got a good part of his strength back and still could not access haki.
furthermore, haki, by definition, is a metaphysical concept. its willpower. not a physical trait.
I will not say you are wrong, but as it currently stands the evidence points towards haki being mostly unrelated to physical strength.
weaknesses like illness will also effect your state of mind or your willpower. ailments distracted WB enough so he could not utilite his haki properly anymore. it is not completely unrelated to the body so to say.
on the other hand, a weak kid like Aiza can pull off peak CoO haki feats as its a purely mental ability.
can haki be enhance by physical power or even overpowered by purely physical power? I suppose so at the moment.
like I said earlier. mostly both stats go hand in hand cause the users with good or any haki are already physically fit. they are not related though. not directly at least.
I can not think of a case where this is not true outside of CoO and CoC feats.
Rayleigh casually swatted a giant enraged elephant away.
the use of haki like this seemingly requires no physical strength, but the outcome is very powerful.
seastone drains his power. its not said which power that is. willpower, df power, strength? I guess its all of them without correlation. if you can not use haki at all then there is not much haki it could drain from you.
Luffy learned to endure seastone and pull off physical feats in Udon while he was still unable to perform haki feats. so, Luffy got a good part of his strength back and still could not access haki.
furthermore, haki, by definition, is a metaphysical concept. its willpower. not a physical trait.
I will not say you are wrong, but as it currently stands the evidence points towards haki being mostly unrelated to physical strength.
weaknesses like illness will also effect your state of mind or your willpower. ailments distracted WB enough so he could not utilite his haki properly anymore. it is not completely unrelated to the body so to say.
on the other hand, a weak kid like Aiza can pull off peak CoO haki feats as its a purely mental ability.
can haki be enhance by physical power or even overpowered by purely physical power? I suppose so at the moment.
like I said earlier. mostly both stats go hand in hand cause the users with good or any haki are already physically fit. they are not related though. not directly at least.
I can not think of a case where this is not true outside of CoO and CoC feats.
Most of what you've said is correct, but this isn't.
Haki isn't will power, this is a misconception.
Luffy was moving despite Haki draining him physically because he has great will power, but still couldn't use Haki.
If Haki was will power, he'd be able to use it regardless of seastone.
Will power cannot be suppressed, therefore, it can't be Haki as that can be suppressed. Will power is simply the ability to do something even if it's difficult.
More so, Aida as a baby was able to use haki. Babies do not exactly have will power.
Haki is just a talent and something that is finite. It finishes when it's depleted and needs to recharge for 10 minutes to be used again at the very least.
It can.
Luffy overpowered Haki users with brute strength when he fought the Gorgon sisters pre-skip.
Haki simply makes things harder which is why it makes attacks stronger and which is why people use it to defend against powerful attacks.
Haki isn't will power, this is a misconception.
Luffy was moving despite Haki draining him physically because he has great will power, but still couldn't use Haki.
If Haki was will power, he'd be able to use it regardless of seastone.
Will power cannot be suppressed, therefore, it can't be Haki as that can be suppressed. Will power is simply the ability to do something even if it's difficult.
More so, Aida as a baby was able to use haki. Babies do not exactly have will power.
Haki is just a talent and something that is finite. It finishes when it's depleted and needs to recharge for 10 minutes to be used again at the very least.
It can.
Luffy overpowered Haki users with brute strength when he fought the Gorgon sisters pre-skip.
Haki simply makes things harder which is why it makes attacks stronger and which is why people use it to defend against powerful attacks.
Not really.
Kawamatsu was imprisoned for years and isn't a DF user. We know this because he can swim.
He couldn't escape either because he was bound in Kairoseki meaning or at least suggesting it inhibits Haki usage.
Luffy was the most tired we'd ever seen him in Dressrosa, yet he was still able to use Haki. Luffy could barely move. Luffy's moving far more in Wano than he did against Joker.
In fact, Luffy's used Haki in instances where he was literally unable to move. He used Haki when he was half-dead in Impel Down and knocked down the Impel Down wolves.
Haki has no relationship with stamina or physical strength, otherwise, Luffy should never have been able to use it against Joker or in Impel Down.
It implies Kairoseki suppresses Haki, otherwise, Kawamatus need not be chained in Kairoseki.
Kawamatsu was imprisoned for years and isn't a DF user. We know this because he can swim.
He couldn't escape either because he was bound in Kairoseki meaning or at least suggesting it inhibits Haki usage.
Luffy was the most tired we'd ever seen him in Dressrosa, yet he was still able to use Haki. Luffy could barely move. Luffy's moving far more in Wano than he did against Joker.
In fact, Luffy's used Haki in instances where he was literally unable to move. He used Haki when he was half-dead in Impel Down and knocked down the Impel Down wolves.
Haki has no relationship with stamina or physical strength, otherwise, Luffy should never have been able to use it against Joker or in Impel Down.
It implies Kairoseki suppresses Haki, otherwise, Kawamatus need not be chained in Kairoseki.
paraphrasing "being without doubt".
enduring the seastone cuffs is the same as refusing to go down. you run on pure willpower.
while haki is the ability to not doubt. your inner strength. it may translate into the same words, but the concept is different.
staying up vs Katakuri was surely not haki, but willpower.
its used interchangably in the community I am afraid. I do so aswell when in reality its a different thing altogether.
no matter which it is. neither is a physical concept.
enduring the seastone cuffs is the same as refusing to go down. you run on pure willpower.
while haki is the ability to not doubt. your inner strength. it may translate into the same words, but the concept is different.
staying up vs Katakuri was surely not haki, but willpower.
its used interchangably in the community I am afraid. I do so aswell when in reality its a different thing altogether.
no matter which it is. neither is a physical concept.
You're example of Kawamatsu doesn't mean anything since Kawamatsu never made a statement about this one way or another. He also never showed anything one way or another.
You didn't see him use haki or see him fail to use when he wanted to use haki.
Like seriously nothing about Kawamatsu affects this in any way.
You didn't see him use haki or see him fail to use when he wanted to use haki.
Like seriously nothing about Kawamatsu affects this in any way.
Common sense to assume he's a Haki user. Doesn't have to mention anything just like we don't need Kaido to say he's a Haki user, just common sense to assume he is a Haki user.
Kawamatsu is also in the top 3 most powerful among the 3 scabbards. If Kinemon and Kanjuro can use Haki, the idea Kawamatsu, Denjiro or Ashura Doji aren't Haki users would be a bit absurd.
At this point, anyone competent is likely a Haki user.
He also certainly isn't a DF user since he can swim.
Kawamatsu was imprisoned for about a decade. he'd very likely have simply escaped from chains if they didn't affect Haki
Kawamatsu is also in the top 3 most powerful among the 3 scabbards. If Kinemon and Kanjuro can use Haki, the idea Kawamatsu, Denjiro or Ashura Doji aren't Haki users would be a bit absurd.
At this point, anyone competent is likely a Haki user.
He also certainly isn't a DF user since he can swim.
Kawamatsu was imprisoned for about a decade. he'd very likely have simply escaped from chains if they didn't affect Haki
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Actually, Rayleigh never said being without doubt is Haki.
He said being without doubt is strength, not that it's Haki.
In fact, if you read with the proper context, when Rayleigh said "not doubting is power", what did he say prior to that? He said most people don't discover Haki or learn to use it. Rayleigh is saying if Luffy trains hard and believes in himself, he'll awaken his Haki.
Not that not doubting is Haki.
If that were the case of not-doubting, Luffy would have been using Haki from the moment he was born. He has boundless self-belief. In fact, all kids would be haki users because they have self-belief due to being naive.
Haki is not the ability to not doubt.
At no point has Luffy doubted himself, otherwise, he'd have been a Haki user at the age of 8 years old. Luffy has never doubted himself.
Haki is simply a power everyone possesses and a power that has a limited capacity.
Nothing more to it.
He said being without doubt is strength, not that it's Haki.
In fact, if you read with the proper context, when Rayleigh said "not doubting is power", what did he say prior to that? He said most people don't discover Haki or learn to use it. Rayleigh is saying if Luffy trains hard and believes in himself, he'll awaken his Haki.
Not that not doubting is Haki.
If that were the case of not-doubting, Luffy would have been using Haki from the moment he was born. He has boundless self-belief. In fact, all kids would be haki users because they have self-belief due to being naive.
Haki is not the ability to not doubt.
At no point has Luffy doubted himself, otherwise, he'd have been a Haki user at the age of 8 years old. Luffy has never doubted himself.
Haki is simply a power everyone possesses and a power that has a limited capacity.
Nothing more to it.
Doesn't matter, we use sound reasoning to make logical conclusions.
If Kawamatsu could have used Haki while in chains, he'd easiily have just broken out.
Haven't you seen Luffy bite chains with his teeth supposedly using Haki?
A Fishman has incredible strength, combined with Haki, breaking out of chains would be a walk in the park.
We don't need to see him try or not try, we can simply conclude he couldn't escape because kairoseki suppresses Haki.
More so, Luffy couldn't use Haki when bound in Kairoseki.
The idea fatigue or physical status impacts Haki has been debunked.
Luffy was extremely exhausted against Joker and was still able to use Haki. Vice versa, Luffy was never tired against Katakuri, his Haki just depleted. So it has nothing to do with physical ability or conditions.
If Kawamatsu could have used Haki while in chains, he'd easiily have just broken out.
Haven't you seen Luffy bite chains with his teeth supposedly using Haki?
A Fishman has incredible strength, combined with Haki, breaking out of chains would be a walk in the park.
We don't need to see him try or not try, we can simply conclude he couldn't escape because kairoseki suppresses Haki.
More so, Luffy couldn't use Haki when bound in Kairoseki.
The idea fatigue or physical status impacts Haki has been debunked.
Luffy was extremely exhausted against Joker and was still able to use Haki. Vice versa, Luffy was never tired against Katakuri, his Haki just depleted. So it has nothing to do with physical ability or conditions.
