Powers & Abilities Physical Skills in Attack Power vs Haki
- Thread starter Rosella.Fiamingo
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I don't know about physical strength, but raw attack power/ force will always play the bigger role (in majority of cases).
G4 Boundman isn't impressive because Luffy mastered haki, it's impressive because the force behind his attacks increased tenfold (Haki allows it to function the way it does, but it's far from the most important factor)
-with weaker armament Haki than Cracker's, he was able to break biscuit soldiers with boundman, despite being unable to do shit with the same haki in G2/G3. The difference? The force behind his attack.
-Snakeman's fists were being overpowered by a base Katakuri, while Boundman was sending him flying several meters back coughing up blood. The difference? The force behind his attack.
Raw force > Haki.
You give a low tier attack, top tier haki, it can become impressive. But a top tier attack, with low tier haki, will always be more impressive. For example, a top tier Gura punch with little to no haki VS a base WB punch with advanced haki only, the former should always win out, simply has much more force behind it which a base WB punch, regardless of haki, can't compete with.
We already saw an example of how much raw force matters when a hakiless pretimeskip G2 Luffy made a mockery out of the Sandersonia sisters when they were using haki.
G4 Boundman isn't impressive because Luffy mastered haki, it's impressive because the force behind his attacks increased tenfold (Haki allows it to function the way it does, but it's far from the most important factor)
-with weaker armament Haki than Cracker's, he was able to break biscuit soldiers with boundman, despite being unable to do shit with the same haki in G2/G3. The difference? The force behind his attack.
-Snakeman's fists were being overpowered by a base Katakuri, while Boundman was sending him flying several meters back coughing up blood. The difference? The force behind his attack.
Raw force > Haki.
You give a low tier attack, top tier haki, it can become impressive. But a top tier attack, with low tier haki, will always be more impressive. For example, a top tier Gura punch with little to no haki VS a base WB punch with advanced haki only, the former should always win out, simply has much more force behind it which a base WB punch, regardless of haki, can't compete with.
We already saw an example of how much raw force matters when a hakiless pretimeskip G2 Luffy made a mockery out of the Sandersonia sisters when they were using haki.
It's not really a case of Haki being more important or Raw strength being more important.
Luffy defeated 2 Haki users pre-skip when he wasn't a Haki user.
The thing is both are important.
You can have Haki, but without Raw Force, there's only so much that can be done and vice versa. Both complement the other. It's simply good to have both.
Luffy's Gear 2nd and 4th are good examples. Luffy's Haki doesn't change between Gear 2nd and 4th. Only thing that changes is the amount of force he can generate. Both simply complement the other.
Luffy defeated 2 Haki users pre-skip when he wasn't a Haki user.
The thing is both are important.
You can have Haki, but without Raw Force, there's only so much that can be done and vice versa. Both complement the other. It's simply good to have both.
Luffy's Gear 2nd and 4th are good examples. Luffy's Haki doesn't change between Gear 2nd and 4th. Only thing that changes is the amount of force he can generate. Both simply complement the other.
It's called armament because it's armor. You can literally just think of wearing metal gloves to see the difference it makes vs physical strength. In effect Haki is like the plaster Magarito had in his gloves.
Luffy tends to be the worst example because he's far above average physically, but then his DF in different phases augments his strength. Hit for hit at base Dofy had all the confidence in the world that Luffy couldn't beat him. The same Haki with Gear is a completely different story though.
Luffy tends to be the worst example because he's far above average physically, but then his DF in different phases augments his strength. Hit for hit at base Dofy had all the confidence in the world that Luffy couldn't beat him. The same Haki with Gear is a completely different story though.
No it doesn't. What those examples (didn't he still touch the metal though?) say are that he's entering a new category. Traditional Haki is armor and so is the advanced CoA used by the likes of Sentomaru.
We haven't seen the type of Haki used for internal combustion in action to make sense of it yet. Unless you think he's gonna wave hands and have Kaido cough up blood the way we've seen the collars pop without sufficient force.
We haven't seen the type of Haki used for internal combustion in action to make sense of it yet. Unless you think he's gonna wave hands and have Kaido cough up blood the way we've seen the collars pop without sufficient force.
No problem. As for the main point of this thread: can armament Haki make up for physical strength? depends on how strong it is and who the individual is up against.
For instance, Oda showed how Kaido utterly outclasses Luffy in terms of physical strength, the difference is massive. When Luffy was going to brawl him using pure physical strength it was as if Kaido shat on him from such a height, you'll think God himself has crapped on Luffy. And that's why Oda said during an interview he wants to create a more clever way for Luffy to overcome that enormous difference without Luffy's punch being so strong, and he sorted this out by introducing advanced armament Haki.
Normally, Luffy would face two obstacles when he confronts Kaido again. The first is how to block his Kanabo swings which are amplified by his unmatched physical strength and the second obstacle is how to get past his durability to wound him. So it's a struggle against Kaido's physical strength. The answer is emission armament (for defense) and internal destruction (for offense).
Luffy's devil fruit is entirely centered around his physical strength, he won't be able to exchange normal blows with Kaido and withstand his attacks casually, so he needs emission armament to block Kaido's physically superior blows. Why emission specifically? because it has been shown to be mainly used for defensive purposes throughout the entire series:
- Admirals used it to block Whitebeard's attack
- Rayleigh used it to block the elephant's stomp
- Marigold used it to block Luffy's punch.
- Sentomaru used it to defend numerous times. Note how Sentomaru claims to have the tightest defense.
- Kawamatsu and Hyogoro used it to defend themselves.
Luffy has fully mastered this stage at Udon, he shattered a massive block of steel, i think this is foreshadowing how Luffy would use emission to block Kaido's Kanabo and shatter it into pieces soon.
As for offense, it's obvious that it's internal destruction. Luffy can easily evaporate trees with his base form punches so in G4 his ID punches would bust mountains at minimum and critically wound Kaido. The confrontation with Kaido and BM will showcase how Luffy won't depend anymore on the physical strength of his punches.
For instance, Oda showed how Kaido utterly outclasses Luffy in terms of physical strength, the difference is massive. When Luffy was going to brawl him using pure physical strength it was as if Kaido shat on him from such a height, you'll think God himself has crapped on Luffy. And that's why Oda said during an interview he wants to create a more clever way for Luffy to overcome that enormous difference without Luffy's punch being so strong, and he sorted this out by introducing advanced armament Haki.
Normally, Luffy would face two obstacles when he confronts Kaido again. The first is how to block his Kanabo swings which are amplified by his unmatched physical strength and the second obstacle is how to get past his durability to wound him. So it's a struggle against Kaido's physical strength. The answer is emission armament (for defense) and internal destruction (for offense).
Luffy's devil fruit is entirely centered around his physical strength, he won't be able to exchange normal blows with Kaido and withstand his attacks casually, so he needs emission armament to block Kaido's physically superior blows. Why emission specifically? because it has been shown to be mainly used for defensive purposes throughout the entire series:
- Admirals used it to block Whitebeard's attack
- Rayleigh used it to block the elephant's stomp
- Marigold used it to block Luffy's punch.
- Sentomaru used it to defend numerous times. Note how Sentomaru claims to have the tightest defense.
- Kawamatsu and Hyogoro used it to defend themselves.
Luffy has fully mastered this stage at Udon, he shattered a massive block of steel, i think this is foreshadowing how Luffy would use emission to block Kaido's Kanabo and shatter it into pieces soon.
As for offense, it's obvious that it's internal destruction. Luffy can easily evaporate trees with his base form punches so in G4 his ID punches would bust mountains at minimum and critically wound Kaido. The confrontation with Kaido and BM will showcase how Luffy won't depend anymore on the physical strength of his punches.
I agree with all you wrote but when did Kawamatsu use Advanced Armament Haki to defend himself again?:zorothink:I could have missed it or something like that
But yeah, Advanced Armament will definitely play a major role for Luffy to cracked through Kaido's scale so he can damage him properly.
But yeah, Advanced Armament will definitely play a major role for Luffy to cracked through Kaido's scale so he can damage him properly.
Obviously, haki can enhance greatly the AP of anyone. I mean, look at the arrows of the warriors of Amazon Lily : they are just regular arrows, but because they are imbued in Haki (if it is regular CoA or advance isn't clear because Oda didn't drew the black appearance until after the TS) and are as effective as cannon balls, basically.
However, in the same arc, we saw that physical strength also plays an important part. A weakling with a godly tier CoA (which already seems like an aberration if you asks me) would probably struggle against someone who doesn't have Haki but is an absolute monster in term of physical strength.
Like, take Fisher Tiger (not known for having Haki, but incredibly powerful) and put him against Marigold or Sandersonia. I'm willing to bet Tiger would win because of his raw strength alone.
However, in the same arc, we saw that physical strength also plays an important part. A weakling with a godly tier CoA (which already seems like an aberration if you asks me) would probably struggle against someone who doesn't have Haki but is an absolute monster in term of physical strength.
Like, take Fisher Tiger (not known for having Haki, but incredibly powerful) and put him against Marigold or Sandersonia. I'm willing to bet Tiger would win because of his raw strength alone.
I just realised I made s thread addressing the topic of this thread, but for Zoro
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/base-zoro-vs-armament-zoro.4085/
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/base-zoro-vs-armament-zoro.4085/
