Powers & Abilities So does everyone agree Enma not a power up now.
- Thread starter Sword God Ryuma
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My bad. I mean it has a better portrayal, staging. Which impies Enma is better.
How do you know ? It's just an headcannon. We didn't have seen a full use of Enma.
Just give things which had their own chapter names and aren't an upgrade or something better ? I wait.
We dont know anything about ame. So I'm just comparing. Shusui and Enma.
Which one gets the best staging ?
Moreover I told you I dont use feats here. They arent reliable since they depends of the user.
Shusui is for them what Strawhat is for luffy. How is that an information about the strenght ?
If you read mangas Show me a Shonen where an object which isn't a PowerUp has his own chapter name and a staging as big as Enma. I wait.
How do you know ? It's just an headcannon. We didn't have seen a full use of Enma.
Just give things which had their own chapter names and aren't an upgrade or something better ? I wait.
We dont know anything about ame. So I'm just comparing. Shusui and Enma.
Which one gets the best staging ?
Moreover I told you I dont use feats here. They arent reliable since they depends of the user.
Shusui is for them what Strawhat is for luffy. How is that an information about the strenght ?
If you read mangas Show me a Shonen where an object which isn't a PowerUp has his own chapter name and a staging as big as Enma. I wait.
What does portrayal mean here? I mean Shusui is a fuckin black blade. Zoro fought a Samurai Zombie just to get it who turned out to be the God of the country while Enma was just a replacement since Shusui was too important for Zoro to have.
I mean Zoro literally had the sword of the God of the wano people. How is that not better "portrayal"?
If you mean just the whole Cliff cutting haki draining thing then just say that. The sword is HARDER to control. That's all that's stated about it. It's not a better sword, it's a harder one to control.
Zoro will overcome the hardness to control the sword and will become stronger by overcoming this. That's it. And just like Oden, Enma will be just a normal sword that Zoro has after he has overcome the learning curve
I mean Zoro literally had the sword of the God of the wano people. How is that not better "portrayal"?
If you mean just the whole Cliff cutting haki draining thing then just say that. The sword is HARDER to control. That's all that's stated about it. It's not a better sword, it's a harder one to control.
Zoro will overcome the hardness to control the sword and will become stronger by overcoming this. That's it. And just like Oden, Enma will be just a normal sword that Zoro has after he has overcome the learning curve
Anything that increases your power is a power up. RS, G4 is a power up, too. 
That doesn’t mean they don’t have to work to use it, but it will boost their combat ability bottom line. Even all this Haki training is a blatant power up. It’s expected... I think they’ll need it to believably fell Kaido+BM alliance.
That doesn’t mean they don’t have to work to use it, but it will boost their combat ability bottom line. Even all this Haki training is a blatant power up. It’s expected... I think they’ll need it to believably fell Kaido+BM alliance.
What about that time Rock Lee removed his weirs while fighting Gaara. There was an entire chapter of build up to that. We had might guy commenting then a mini flashback of rock Lee training and then rock Lee asks Guy for permission to remove the weights and then bam, the man is bodying Gaara.
The weights exist as a display of the strain Rock Lee was putting on himself to get stronger. The same way Enma exists as strain on Zoro's haki so that when he overcomes the strain and stops the sword from draining him, it will be the rock Lee scene of Zoro having removed a weight on his haki and he'll be bodying people.
So are the weights rock Lee puts on considered a power up?
The weights exist as a display of the strain Rock Lee was putting on himself to get stronger. The same way Enma exists as strain on Zoro's haki so that when he overcomes the strain and stops the sword from draining him, it will be the rock Lee scene of Zoro having removed a weight on his haki and he'll be bodying people.
So are the weights rock Lee puts on considered a power up?
The way I see it. Hyogoro isn't a power up. He's trainer who teaches Luffy. The training luffy goes through is the power up nut Hyogoro.
The same way, Enma is exact the same rank as Shusui so it's not a power up. It forces Zoro to train himself in order to be able to use it. Zoro is getting haki training from the strain the sword puts on him unlike luffy who is getting direct instruction from Hyogoro. And so similarly THE TRAINING is the power up for Zoro as well, not the sword.
It's like saying Dumbells are the power up for a person who goes to the gym instead of saying their actual training is the power up.
Maybe you think there's no difference but the point of this thread is to establish the difference
The same way, Enma is exact the same rank as Shusui so it's not a power up. It forces Zoro to train himself in order to be able to use it. Zoro is getting haki training from the strain the sword puts on him unlike luffy who is getting direct instruction from Hyogoro. And so similarly THE TRAINING is the power up for Zoro as well, not the sword.
It's like saying Dumbells are the power up for a person who goes to the gym instead of saying their actual training is the power up.
Maybe you think there's no difference but the point of this thread is to establish the difference
The way Oda stages Enma. Everything Shusui has except for the Black blade part (and it's just to allow Zoro to achieve it) Enma has it. Even if it's not a national treasure.
Shusui didn't get as much development Enma as.
I never talked about feats.
Like every Zoro swords. First he gets a boost. And after he overcomes the drawbacks of the swords.
I just checked It was barely staged. A little scene when Lee puts them off with a crash.
Nothing similar to Enma.
I Never said Enma wasn't also a training. But you just doesn't admits the boost part.
Weights are just a training tool. Lee train with them. When it's needed he puts them off.
Does Zoro will take back an other sword ?
Or once he control the drawback he can use Enma at it Best ? Yes so it's a PowerUp. But a PowerUp which also train Zoro.
Please read. I never said he wasn't stronger now. False. Enma train him at least. And you can add a boost.
I did never goes against that claim. Please read. Feats aren't reliable.
I never talked about feats.
Like every Zoro swords. First he gets a boost. And after he overcomes the drawbacks of the swords.
I just checked It was barely staged. A little scene when Lee puts them off with a crash.
Nothing similar to Enma.
I Never said Enma wasn't also a training. But you just doesn't admits the boost part.
Weights are just a training tool. Lee train with them. When it's needed he puts them off.
Does Zoro will take back an other sword ?
Or once he control the drawback he can use Enma at it Best ? Yes so it's a PowerUp. But a PowerUp which also train Zoro.
Please read. I never said he wasn't stronger now. False. Enma train him at least. And you can add a boost.
I did never goes against that claim. Please read. Feats aren't reliable.
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Not that I disagree with the overall point of your post.
But Zoro with Shisui pre-training >> Zoro with Enma pre-training, in a fight.
Not being able to control his attacks & dealing with the haki strain is simply too much of a nerf to face against a Zoro who can dish out w.e attack he wants without any strain.
Zoro with Enma after training =/< Zoro with Shisui after training, I agree with tho.
But Zoro with Shisui pre-training >> Zoro with Enma pre-training, in a fight.
Not being able to control his attacks & dealing with the haki strain is simply too much of a nerf to face against a Zoro who can dish out w.e attack he wants without any strain.
Zoro with Enma after training =/< Zoro with Shisui after training, I agree with tho.