Chapter Discussion What Zoro said was CAP…
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Ace's death is the least of it and I don't understand how you can keep that simple fact. Ace lived his adventure and when the time came, Luffy tried everything he could to save him. Furthermore, considering Luffy's power at the time, he did too much. He cannot be blamed for anything.
And with Vivi the same thing happens, at the moment they can't do anything. Vivi is older and she knows how to take care of herself. If she finds herself in trouble and the Miguis know about it, they will do everything they can to save her. Whether they succeed (which obviously they will) or not, there would be nothing to complain about.
And with Vivi the same thing happens, at the moment they can't do anything. Vivi is older and she knows how to take care of herself. If she finds herself in trouble and the Miguis know about it, they will do everything they can to save her. Whether they succeed (which obviously they will) or not, there would be nothing to complain about.
Zorobros are so much into this "Zoro level headed" and "Vice captain stuff" that what he says doesn't needs to make that much sense or have an actual payoff, it just needs to somehow look cool
Even if Zoro is proven wrong or isn't shown taking a good look at the full picture
He is trying to arguably avoid unnecessary trouble for the crew, this is fair and very reasonable, but it doesn't go beyond that. He is saying he has "faith on Vivi"... like... Ok, fine, but how is this supposed to be something "level headed" when he is relying on abstract terms? Having faith in Vivi, who can probably get beaten by a Gifter, means he is being smart?
All they know is: Sabo didn't killed Cobra, someone else did.
Why should they even believe Vivi is ok? Having faith is actually the only thing to do here if they aren't willing to go help her, and thats all
Sanji was also extremely worried in WCI about a lot of stuff, and those stuff influenced his decisions, until he had nowhere to run anymore, ending up in a break down and accepting that things would need to solve themselves in a way or another, even if the whole crew died in the process without Sanji not being able to sacrifice himself to keep everyone safe (not just the crew), as he would prefer to do previously. Zoro was never forced to do that or put in such a situation that drained so much of him mentally speaking apart from the usual obvious consequences of dying in battle against an enemy that everyone in the crew may suffer from. Even in Kuma's situation, Sanji was there to do the same thing, and afterwards he reassured that Luffy and nobody else knew about Zoro's sacrifice in respect to Zoro.
Im sure that these same guys that used to talk trash about Sanji because of his worryings are the same ones trying to convince Zoro is a genius and "vice captain" for that one. Mind you that Zoro is in an extremely more favorable situation, with no actual pressure, death sentence or responsability feeling for someone elses decisions and lives, unlike Sanji was in WCI.
It would be easier for Zoro to say: "Dude we can't live other people's lives, even if they are our nakama, we can't control everything that happens, so we shouldn't get into huge trouble for that matter"
Curiously, im sure that if Sanji said something like that he would be called: a pussy, coward, weak, doesn't trust his captain and his crew, didn't learned anything from WCI, doesn't cares about helping his nakama, he is selfish.
But since its Zoro, the "Zoro is the official Vice Captain" boys start jerking off each other and trying to convince everyone how much of a brilliant Vice Captain Zoro is.
And thats why Zoro and Sanji are the wings. While Zoro has a more cold headed approach to some situations, to the point the crew gets shocked for his apparent lack of empathy and get mad at him, Sanji sometimes brings up the more emotionally driven ones, and both are extremely important, balancing each other.
In Usopp's case for example, while Sanji was the one that convinced Nami that Zoro had a good point, which settled the deal about Usopp's possible return to the crew, he also helped Usopp regain his self confidence. He saved him in the Sea Train and convinced him to not give up but to help Robin because he could still be very useful back in EL, despite the flaws that everyone may have.
The only reason Kinemon is alive and Wano happened lies on the fact that Sanji decided to go all out at helping Kinemon, simply because of the empathy he had towards him.
And im sure Sanji agrees with Zoro here, just like he does almost the whole time when the matter is keeping the crew out of unnecessary trouble.
All Sanji said was "Please be safe!", he hopes Vivi is doing fine because he likes her that much, but he knows he isn't in a spot that makes him be able to do something about it. Other than that, Zoro and Sanji insulting each other is just their regular routine.
Even if Zoro is proven wrong or isn't shown taking a good look at the full picture
He is trying to arguably avoid unnecessary trouble for the crew, this is fair and very reasonable, but it doesn't go beyond that. He is saying he has "faith on Vivi"... like... Ok, fine, but how is this supposed to be something "level headed" when he is relying on abstract terms? Having faith in Vivi, who can probably get beaten by a Gifter, means he is being smart?
All they know is: Sabo didn't killed Cobra, someone else did.
Why should they even believe Vivi is ok? Having faith is actually the only thing to do here if they aren't willing to go help her, and thats all
Sanji was also extremely worried in WCI about a lot of stuff, and those stuff influenced his decisions, until he had nowhere to run anymore, ending up in a break down and accepting that things would need to solve themselves in a way or another, even if the whole crew died in the process without Sanji not being able to sacrifice himself to keep everyone safe (not just the crew), as he would prefer to do previously. Zoro was never forced to do that or put in such a situation that drained so much of him mentally speaking apart from the usual obvious consequences of dying in battle against an enemy that everyone in the crew may suffer from. Even in Kuma's situation, Sanji was there to do the same thing, and afterwards he reassured that Luffy and nobody else knew about Zoro's sacrifice in respect to Zoro.
Im sure that these same guys that used to talk trash about Sanji because of his worryings are the same ones trying to convince Zoro is a genius and "vice captain" for that one. Mind you that Zoro is in an extremely more favorable situation, with no actual pressure, death sentence or responsability feeling for someone elses decisions and lives, unlike Sanji was in WCI.
It would be easier for Zoro to say: "Dude we can't live other people's lives, even if they are our nakama, we can't control everything that happens, so we shouldn't get into huge trouble for that matter"
Curiously, im sure that if Sanji said something like that he would be called: a pussy, coward, weak, doesn't trust his captain and his crew, didn't learned anything from WCI, doesn't cares about helping his nakama, he is selfish.
But since its Zoro, the "Zoro is the official Vice Captain" boys start jerking off each other and trying to convince everyone how much of a brilliant Vice Captain Zoro is.
And thats why Zoro and Sanji are the wings. While Zoro has a more cold headed approach to some situations, to the point the crew gets shocked for his apparent lack of empathy and get mad at him, Sanji sometimes brings up the more emotionally driven ones, and both are extremely important, balancing each other.
In Usopp's case for example, while Sanji was the one that convinced Nami that Zoro had a good point, which settled the deal about Usopp's possible return to the crew, he also helped Usopp regain his self confidence. He saved him in the Sea Train and convinced him to not give up but to help Robin because he could still be very useful back in EL, despite the flaws that everyone may have.
The only reason Kinemon is alive and Wano happened lies on the fact that Sanji decided to go all out at helping Kinemon, simply because of the empathy he had towards him.
And im sure Sanji agrees with Zoro here, just like he does almost the whole time when the matter is keeping the crew out of unnecessary trouble.
All Sanji said was "Please be safe!", he hopes Vivi is doing fine because he likes her that much, but he knows he isn't in a spot that makes him be able to do something about it. Other than that, Zoro and Sanji insulting each other is just their regular routine.
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Luffy was an ant in Marineford. The "lesson" there had nothing to do with helping Ace sooner.
He lacked the power to contribute anything meaningful. Instead, he used his charisma (or maybe his Nika powers lmao) to gather a team capable of helping him save Ace...and it worked. Or it would've if Ace didn't fucking turn around and ruin everything.
Personally, I wouldn't have brought up Ace as an example if I were Oda because it specifically elicits this type of "wtf?" reaction. But that doesn't mean Zoro is wrong in any capacity.
Plus, Luffy has a clear history of being impulsive and throwing himself & his crew into terrible danger that they just barely escape from. If PIS and plot armor didn't exist, they would've died a million times already because of those decisions.
He lacked the power to contribute anything meaningful. Instead, he used his charisma (or maybe his Nika powers lmao) to gather a team capable of helping him save Ace...and it worked. Or it would've if Ace didn't fucking turn around and ruin everything.
Personally, I wouldn't have brought up Ace as an example if I were Oda because it specifically elicits this type of "wtf?" reaction. But that doesn't mean Zoro is wrong in any capacity.
Plus, Luffy has a clear history of being impulsive and throwing himself & his crew into terrible danger that they just barely escape from. If PIS and plot armor didn't exist, they would've died a million times already because of those decisions.
Zorobros are so much into this "Zoro level headed" and "Vice captain stuff" that what he says doesn't needs to make that much sense or have an actual payoff, it just needs to somehow look cool
Even if Zoro is proven wrong or isn't shown taking a good look at the full picture
He is trying to arguably avoid unnecessary trouble for the crew, this is fair and very reasonable, but it doesn't go beyond that. He is saying he has "faith on Vivi"... like... Ok, fine, but how is this supposed to be something "level headed" when he is relying on abstract terms? Having faith in Vivi, who can probably get beaten by a Gifter, means he is being smart?
All they know is: Sabo didn't killed Cobra, someone else did.
Why should they even believe Vivi is ok? Having faith is actually the only thing to do here if they aren't willing to go help her, and thats all
Sanji was also extremely worried in WCI about a lot of stuff, and those stuff influenced his decisions, until he had nowhere to run anymore, ending up in a break down and accepting that things would need to solve themselves in a way or another, even if the whole crew died in the process without Sanji not being able to sacrifice himself to keep everyone safe (not just the crew), as he would prefer to do previously. Zoro was never forced to do that or put in such a situation that drained so much of him mentally speaking apart from the usual obvious consequences of dying in battle against an enemy that everyone in the crew may suffer from. Even in Kuma's situation, Sanji was there to do the same thing, and afterwards he reassured that Luffy and nobody else knew about Zoro's sacrifice in respect to Zoro.
Im sure that these same guys that used to talk trash about Sanji because of his worryings are the same ones trying to convince Zoro is a genius and "vice captain" for that one. Mind you that Zoro is in an extremely more favorable situation, with no actual pressure, death sentence or responsability feeling for someone elses decisions and lives, unlike Sanji was in WCI.
It would be easier for Zoro to say: "Dude we can't live other people's lives, even if they are our nakama, we can't control everything that happens, so we shouldn't get into huge trouble for that matter"
Curiously, im sure that if Sanji said something like that he would be called: a pussy, coward, weak, doesn't trust his captain and his crew, didn't learned anything from WCI, doesn't cares about helping his nakama, he is selfish.
But since its Zoro, the "Zoro is the official Vice Captain" boys start jerking off each other and trying to convince everyone how brilliant Zoro is.
And thats why Zoro and Sanji are the wings. While Zoro has a more cold headed approach to some situations, to the point the crew gets shocked for his apparent lack of empathy and get mad at him, Sanji sometimes brings up the more emotionally driven ones, and both are extremely important, balancing each other.
In Usopp's case for example, while Sanji was the one that convinced Nami that Zoro had a good point, which settled the deal about Usopp's possible return to the crew, he also helped Usopp regain his self confidence. He saved him in the Sea Train and convinced him to not give up but to help Robin because he could still be very useful back in EL, despite the flaws that everyone may have.
The only reason Kinemon is alive and Wano happened lies on the fact that Sanji decided to go all out at helping Kinemon, simply because of the empathy he had towards him.
And im sure Sanji agrees with Zoro here, just like he does almost the whole time when the matter is keeping the crew out of unnecessary trouble.
All Sanji said was "Please be safe!", he hopes Vivi is doing fine because he likes her that much, but he knows he isn't in a spot that makes him be able to do something about it. Other than that, Zoro and Sanji insulting each other is just their regular routine.
Even if Zoro is proven wrong or isn't shown taking a good look at the full picture
He is trying to arguably avoid unnecessary trouble for the crew, this is fair and very reasonable, but it doesn't go beyond that. He is saying he has "faith on Vivi"... like... Ok, fine, but how is this supposed to be something "level headed" when he is relying on abstract terms? Having faith in Vivi, who can probably get beaten by a Gifter, means he is being smart?
All they know is: Sabo didn't killed Cobra, someone else did.
Why should they even believe Vivi is ok? Having faith is actually the only thing to do here if they aren't willing to go help her, and thats all
Sanji was also extremely worried in WCI about a lot of stuff, and those stuff influenced his decisions, until he had nowhere to run anymore, ending up in a break down and accepting that things would need to solve themselves in a way or another, even if the whole crew died in the process without Sanji not being able to sacrifice himself to keep everyone safe (not just the crew), as he would prefer to do previously. Zoro was never forced to do that or put in such a situation that drained so much of him mentally speaking apart from the usual obvious consequences of dying in battle against an enemy that everyone in the crew may suffer from. Even in Kuma's situation, Sanji was there to do the same thing, and afterwards he reassured that Luffy and nobody else knew about Zoro's sacrifice in respect to Zoro.
Im sure that these same guys that used to talk trash about Sanji because of his worryings are the same ones trying to convince Zoro is a genius and "vice captain" for that one. Mind you that Zoro is in an extremely more favorable situation, with no actual pressure, death sentence or responsability feeling for someone elses decisions and lives, unlike Sanji was in WCI.
It would be easier for Zoro to say: "Dude we can't live other people's lives, even if they are our nakama, we can't control everything that happens, so we shouldn't get into huge trouble for that matter"
Curiously, im sure that if Sanji said something like that he would be called: a pussy, coward, weak, doesn't trust his captain and his crew, didn't learned anything from WCI, doesn't cares about helping his nakama, he is selfish.
But since its Zoro, the "Zoro is the official Vice Captain" boys start jerking off each other and trying to convince everyone how brilliant Zoro is.
And thats why Zoro and Sanji are the wings. While Zoro has a more cold headed approach to some situations, to the point the crew gets shocked for his apparent lack of empathy and get mad at him, Sanji sometimes brings up the more emotionally driven ones, and both are extremely important, balancing each other.
In Usopp's case for example, while Sanji was the one that convinced Nami that Zoro had a good point, which settled the deal about Usopp's possible return to the crew, he also helped Usopp regain his self confidence. He saved him in the Sea Train and convinced him to not give up but to help Robin because he could still be very useful back in EL, despite the flaws that everyone may have.
The only reason Kinemon is alive and Wano happened lies on the fact that Sanji decided to go all out at helping Kinemon, simply because of the empathy he had towards him.
And im sure Sanji agrees with Zoro here, just like he does almost the whole time when the matter is keeping the crew out of unnecessary trouble.
All Sanji said was "Please be safe!", he hopes Vivi is doing fine because he likes her that much, but he knows he isn't in a spot that makes him be able to do something about it. Other than that, Zoro and Sanji insulting each other is just their regular routine.
But now the same people think that Zoro wabting to leave Vivi a non combatant in the hands of the most dangerous organization in the world is right
Yeah. This is what most people fail to understand tbh.
1) Something can be both wrong and right at the same time, depending on your point of view.
2) Ace's situation and Vivi's situation is different.
Nami orders Luffy around and change his decision more often than others, no one bats an eye.
Zoro sends a point across to Luffy, everybody lost their shit.
It's partially confirmed to be Luffy's own charisma, because Sanji also display that to some extent (non Nika DF user, so humans can do that).
1) Something can be both wrong and right at the same time, depending on your point of view.
2) Ace's situation and Vivi's situation is different.
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Rupee's retardness at display every chapter - the people sleep.
Zoro breathes - Everyone loses their minds!
Or is this salt because Zoro orders Luffy around and doesnt allow him to do whatever he wants?
Zoro breathes - Everyone loses their minds!
Or is this salt because Zoro orders Luffy around and doesnt allow him to do whatever he wants?
Zoro sends a point across to Luffy, everybody lost their shit.
Post automatically merged:
It's partially confirmed to be Luffy's own charisma, because Sanji also display that to some extent (non Nika DF user, so humans can do that).
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I think the biggest issue here is how quickly Zoro is to write people off and say “Let them take care of themselves.”
Zoros a great straight man and cool head, but what he did here by saying “Disregard vivi in entirety” was just a huge dick move that Hoenstly doesn’t make sense. And bringing Ace into it made him come off as a prick.
I get what oda was trying to get across with this; but this was the worst possible way to do it.
Zoros a great straight man and cool head, but what he did here by saying “Disregard vivi in entirety” was just a huge dick move that Hoenstly doesn’t make sense. And bringing Ace into it made him come off as a prick.
I get what oda was trying to get across with this; but this was the worst possible way to do it.
It's not phrased "leave her". It's phrased "we would be of no help" and it's because of the lack of information. He even laid out a similar situation where Luffy lacked info and chose to let Ace be.
Like I get it if you’re a fan of Zoro, but you shouldn’t be trying to defend the dialogue here. It’s really bad To the point where I hope viz actually fixes it.
