Versus Battle Hiruzen prime vs Pain

[Roo]

I am not sure when it's from, but it's a clear statement given to us. If you use, and you do use databooks, it'd be hypocritical to pick and choose. As far as we're told Yata Mirror can reflect anything, and we've been told that twice

I used the latest databooks, notice how I don't use the first one to say Hiruzen is stronger than all the hokage? I can acknowledge there are retcons in the story. If that excerpt is from the 4th databook then I'll take my L

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Enma should be able to resist Chou Shinra Tensei if it’s can shove around the 9 tails.

There’s nothing linking either of those things together, nothing.

And Enma is a cage.

Hiruzen is turned to paste being throttled by Chou Shinra Tensei inside the cage.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

I am not sure when it's from, but it's a clear statement given to us. If you use, and you do use databooks, it'd be hypocritical to pick and choose. As far as we're told Yata Mirror can reflect anything, and we've been told that twice

Spoiler

I said multiple images lol and they are there now.

Only the very latest databooks should be taken seriously.

Otherwise Hebi Sasuke is stronger than everyone in the Akatsuki.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Only the very latest databooks should be taken seriously.

Otherwise Hebi Sasuke is stronger than everyone in the Akatsuki.

Kishimoto doesn’t repeat jutsu descriptions though. So you’re saying 50% of all jutsu in the series does not have a reliable DB entry for random reasons

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

There’s nothing linking either of those things together, nothing.

And Enma is a cage.

Hiruzen is turned to paste being throttled by Chou Shinra Tensei inside the cage.

So you’re saying that as long as he can brace inside the cage he’ll be fine.

 

[park_min young]

Pain is op, lmfao
He solo’d Konoha + Sage mode Naruto + 8 tailed Kurama
This was a Nagato who’s pretty much really weakened already, we’ve seen how sickly he looked
The only hokage I think that can be stronger is the first hokage, Minato if he got a little older

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Kishimoto doesn’t repeat jutsu descriptions though. So you’re saying 50% of all jutsu in the series does not have a reliable DB entry for random reasons

Yes unless you think Bringer of Darkness and Frog Song > Infinite Tsukuyomi since both are called the strongest genjutsu

 

[Seven7]

Meh Deidara extreme diffs both

One C4 for Nagato and one for worst hokage too

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Meh Deidara extreme diffs both

One C4 for Nagato and one for worst hokage too

One massive lightning style jutsu from Hiruzen and Deidara gets one shot.

 

[Roo]

Pain is op, lmfao
He solo’d Konoha + Sage mode Naruto + 8 tailed Kurama
This was a Nagato who’s pretty much really weakened already, we’ve seen how sickly he looked
The only hokage I think that can be stronger is the first hokage, Minato if he got a little older

He was going to lose to 8 tails naruto

people overrate the shit out of pain

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

I used the latest databooks, notice how I don't use the first one to say Hiruzen is stronger than all the hokage? I can acknowledge there are retcons in the story.

I can too lmao, when they are shown to us, like Hashirama being quite above Hiruzen. We have no indication to believe that what was said about Yata Mirror is false and it hasn't been shown to be wrong. If it gets retconned sure. But if we go down the rabbit hole and start questioning everything due to a retcon or two, then we can't really debate anything, can we?

If that excerpt is from the 4th databook then I'll take my L

It's from the 3rd databook which is the second to last, so take it as you will.

 

[Seven7]

One massive lightning style jutsu from Hiruzen and Deidara gets one shot.

You and TAC are really Hiruzen groupies.

I know TAC does it for his Orochimaru wank but you have nothing to gain from this.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

I can too lmao, when they are shown to us, like Hashirama being quite above Hiruzen. We have no indication to believe that what was said about Yata Mirror is false and it hasn't been shown to be wrong. If it gets retconned sure. But if we go down the rabbit hole and start questioning everything due to a retcon or two, then we can't really debate anything, can we?


It's from the 3rd databook which is the second to last, so take it as you will.

The Kusanagi blade is in the same class of weapons as the Totsuka blade and Yata mirror and it being able to pierce anything got debunked.

Saying Yata Mirror can block anything because it hasn’t been shown not to is a no-limits fallacy.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

So you’re saying that as long as he can brace inside the cage he’ll be fine.

The Cage and Hiruzen are being hurtled across at break neck speeds. Grandpa isn’t going to be alive by the end.

Yes unless you think Bringer of Darkness and Frog Song > Infinite Tsukuyomi since both are called the strongest genjutsu

Bringer if Darkness was never referred to as the strongest genjutsu but Toad Song at the time deserved that title. There’s no issue here, you just adjust for the later manga developments. Especially when it comes to grandiose yet simple statements like “strongest”.

Yata mirror stands out because Kishimoto defined it and it’s abilities in the data books.

 

[Roo]

I can too lmao, when they are shown to us, like Hashirama being quite above Hiruzen. We have no indication to believe that what was said about Yata Mirror is false and it hasn't been shown to be wrong. If it gets retconned sure. But if we go down the rabbit hole and start questioning everything due to a retcon or two, then we can't really debate anything, can we?

considering yin yang release was explained to be exactly what yata mirror is made out of, and at first it was indestructible I don't think it's a stretch so say they're the same thing

It's from the 3rd databook which is the second to last, so take it as you will.

yeah that one was pre war

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

You and TAC are really Hiruzen groupies.

I know TAC does it for his Orochimaru wank but you have nothing to gain from this.

I think Hiruzen is one of the most underrated characters in the the story. I don’t think people really process how crazy being able to use all 5 elements on a large scale is.

 

[Seven7]

I think Hiruzen is one of the most underrated characters in the the story. I don’t think people really process how crazy being able to use all 5 elements on a large scale is.

Yeah

Unless you're Kakashi from the novel's.
Mf has Ying and Yang release too.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Pain is op, lmfao
He solo’d Konoha + Sage mode Naruto + 8 tailed Kurama
This was a Nagato who’s pretty much really weakened already, we’ve seen how sickly he looked
The only hokage I think that can be stronger is the first hokage, Minato if he got a little older

And people think hiruzen wins

 

[Roo]

I think Hiruzen is one of the most underrated characters in the the story. I don’t think people really process how crazy being able to use all 5 elements on a large scale is.

It's really hard for some people to grasp when all they have seen is old Hiruzen

But when we take into account that he was stronger than the 2nd, considered to be the strongest kage alive, and knew every jutsu in the leaf including hidden ones there's no doubt that the guy is likely top tier(god characters exempt)

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

Yeah

Unless you're Kakashi from the novel's.
Mf has Ying and Yang release too.

Kakashi can’t use jutsu on the scale that Hiruzen can.

Hiruzen can match the scale of Tobirama water style with every element.

Post automatically merged: Oct 3, 2022

And people think hiruzen wins

How does Pain not get blitzed?