General & Others The Misunderstood Greatness of Charlotte Katakuri

How Do You Rate Katakuri's Character


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Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#1
Nani??!! Lee is about to make a Thread that isn't about Power Levels? TF is this?

Yeah yeah yeah, don't blow a gasket...Lol

So this is actually a post I've wanted to do for a long time now, and being inspired by the new Katakuri threads that were created just recently, I figured I would take a crack at this now. On spoiler day. Genius amirite?

I've seen a lot of people in this community spreading the idea that Katakuri is a poorly written character. I've seen this sentiment take on a few different forms and I've been on and off with these ideas myself (even as Katakuri has occupied a Top 5 spot in my personal favorite OP characters list), but since I've been seeing the regulars here saying he's poorly written, I decided that I would give it my earnest to look at Katakuri as a character and determine for myself whether or not he was actually objectively well written or not. After truly taking a look at Katakuri's life and character, I came to the conclusion that he is one of the best characters that Oda has ever written, and that his fight with Luffy really is one of the best Shonen fights I've ever read. Truly a worthy addition to anyone's top 5 favorite OP character list.

"That's a big statement" you might be saying to yourself, which is good, because if you are thinking this, then you are exactly the type of person I am targeting with this post.

So first off, a question that I feel it is necessary to answer before we even start: Sure Katakuri may have been overlooked by our Fandom as a whole, but...why is a big post like this even necessary? Surely anyone reading this post can just go back and reread the fight if they want to, right? If Katakuri is such an objectively great character, then it shouldn't take a giant essay like post to convince people of that, right? They should just be able to read the Manga and come to that conclusion on their own.

Well, yes and no.

You see, I think this thread is necessary for two reasons:

1. Katakuri is a pretty complex character by Shonen standards, and his underlying motivations and character arc are not easy to understand, even as someone who has read his fight with Luffy and looked over his panel time repeatedly, and as someone who enjoys analyzing fictional characters lol.

2. Oda doesn't actually make it super obvious what Katakuri's character arc even is, or even what his motivations are. So much so that even when I fully thought I understood Katakuri's character the first time reading the Luffy fight through, Chapter 902 came out and pretty much obliterated what I thought I believed about him lol.

So, adding these two points together, and in other words: Katakuri's character and arc are really easy to miss or not notice since Oda doesn't really elaborate on what is actually happening with the Dawg over the course of the fight. Hence, this thread lol. I'm not going to elaborate on the criticisms levied against him, instead I wanted to delve into his psyche and motivations and see exactly what makes him so memorable to myself and many others. With hindsight being 20/20 (pun intended?) I figured now was a great time to take another look at him.

So, let's do this! And thank you all in advance for taking some time to read this gargantuan post lol.

Part I: Core Character and Motivation
So first up, let's look at Katakuri when he was a child, because his motives as a child give us heavy insight into the man he grows into:

From a young age, Katakuri was actually very sensitive to how others thought of his appearance. His looks didn't bother him personally, but he seemed to care so seriously about what others thought of him that he threatened to beat up anyone who laughed at him.

This insecurity gets redirected very quickly:

When instead of coming after him, his "enemies" went after his sister. This has a pretty severe effect on him, as he covers up his actual appearance in order to ultimately protect his family from being harmed because of the way he lives:

This becomes the running theme for Katakuri later in his life. He essentially decides to become something that he is not, IE "the perfect invincible man" in order to protect his family from harm. "Covering up your true self" isn't something exclusive to Kata within the Big Mom Pirates, there are several of his siblings who have designs that show how they cover up who they really are for one reason or another, the most obvious examples I can point to are Pudding:

Who covers up her third eye because she was made fun of for it (even by her own mother) And Cracker:

Who covers up his true appearance because he hates pain. The idea of covering up who you truly are underneath and putting on an external facade is actually one of the core themes of the Whole Cake Island Arc. On the surface, the Big Mom Pirates appear to be a giant family, as they are a giant Pirate crew related by blood and marriages and such, but underneath, their are several moments in the arc where they directly or indirectly harm one another, and otherwise show a lack of caring for the wants and needs of their family. While the Straw Hats on the other hand on the surface appear to be a simple Pirate Crew, a rag-tag group of individuals bound together by nothing, but underneath it is their deep seeded caring for one another and willingness to make huge sacrifices for each other that ties them together, making them a true "family." At least, this is what Oda was going for lol.

The reason that Katakuri covering up his true self is important, is that Katakuri's character design actually changes over the course of the fight, and this change in design is symbolic of Katakuri shedding the identity that he created for himself and revealing who he truly is underneath. This change wouldn't be possible without Luffy, but before we get into that, let's look at another crucially important aspect of Katakuri's Character, the hype surrounding the images of himself that he created.

Part II: Becoming the Hype
There are a few different examples of Katakuri being hyped into oblivion by his own family, whether it be Brulee, Oven, Flampe, the Chefs, the soldiers that accompany him to fight Luffy, etc. But the best moment of Katakuri being hyped into oblivion is this one:

And the reason that this moment is the best is because we see Katakuri's actual reaction to the hype. From his words that are drowned out by Brulee hyping him up, as well as his sigh, we can infer that Katakuri actually doesn't like hearing the own hype that he has decided to embody repeated back at him.

This is interesting because it shows us the conflict within him. On the one hand, he wants to embody the hype in order to protect his family. On the other hand, he doesn't want to embody the hype because it's not who he is as a person.

Having both of these two sentiments present at the same time creates a feeling of pressure-Katakuri wants to be himself, but he can't, as he feels that the best way to keep the people he cares about safe is to have his enemies be terrified of the hyped up version of himself that he has created. He may also consider his true self, the true self we discussed earlier, to be what will ultimately lead to his family suffering harm.

This is probably the ultimate reason that Katakuri has his Merienda every day, as it's a time where he can isolate himself to relieve all the pressure that he himself and his family put on him, and just let lose. It's a time where he can let down all of the weight that he carries on his shoulders:

And just relax for a while.

I love this moment. It's just really funny to me:


Lord Dogtooth is conversing with the "War Spirits" other translations have said the "War God" and no one is to interrupt this "Sacred Ritual." The level of hype here is so ridiculous that it's actually comedic, and it also contributes to the rhetoric of his hype.

Now, just to sum up who Katakuri is, Katakuri is a man who essentially created a false identity for himself because he believes that the perceptions around him will allow him to keep his family safe. Katakuri simultaneously wants to hold up this perception of himself (because it protects his family) but simultaneously doesn't like this perception because the pressure that he's putting on himself to embody the perception is enormous, and on top of that, he likes who he actually is underneath rather than who he pretends to be.

Now with that said, it's time to look at how his fight with Luffy causes him to evolve past himself.

Part 3: Character Arc and Development
Katakuri spends the early portion of his fight with Luffy completely trolling his opponent:


Literally just making moves up on the spot and still overwhelming him

The important part of the early fight is that I don't believe that this Katakuri, the Katakuri who trolls Luffy, is actually who Katakuri is as a person. There are two reasons I don't believe this:

1. Katakuri is still both metaphorically and literally covering his true self up. He is still "playing the part" of the invincible man that he's hyping himself up to be, and his true appearance is still covered up by his scarf, which is symbolic of how he is hiding his true self from the world by the false hype he created for himself.

2. Katakuri is literally making up moves and attacks here. These aren't really a part of his actual fighting style, these are just moves he's creating to troll Luffy. Quite literally, Katakuri is not being who he actually is by using this fighting style.

Katakuri continuously mocks Luffy through the early phases of the fight:

There could be a number of reasons for this, but I like to think that the main reason Luffy has not earned Kuri's respect is how erratic and imperfect Luffy's fighting style actually is. Katakuri is repeatedly knocking Luffy on his ass, and Luffy continuously gets up to keep fighting, while Luffy hasn't made Katakuri's back even touch the ground one time. Katakuri probably sees such an ungraceful/barbaric fighting method as the opposite of his own fighting method, and I think Oda did this on purpose. Having Luffy fly and flail around like an ungraceful monkey, while Katakuri stands tall and gallant throughout the entire fight.

However, it doesn't take too long for Katakuri's actual motivation to shine through:


As Luffy starts to attack his siblings. In the same way that Luffy is fighting Katakuri to protect his crew, Katakuri is also fighting to protect his family, both directly and indirectly. Indirectly by fighting the Straw Hat Captain while his siblings face the rest of the crew, and Directly by stopping Luffy from actually physically attacking his siblings. This is one of the many ways that Katakuri and Luffy "Mirror" each other this fight, but honestly the "mirroring" between Luffy and Katakuri and this fight in general deserves a thread of it's own lol. Maybe I'll do that some day, who knows.

However, as the fight progresses, Kuri begins to grow respect for Luffy:

But even more important than Katakuri's growing respect, or really fear initially, for Luffy is the fact that Luffy actually sees who Katakuri actually is when he finds Katakuri during Merienda. Now the fight has really changed, because not only is Katakuri growing respect towards his enemy, but Luffy is both literally and metaphorically (and accidentally lol) shattering the perception that Katakuri has created around himself:

This moment here in particular, of Luffy kicking Katakuri's mouth out of his scarf, is very symbolic of how Luffy is (accidentally) exposing who Katakuri truly is from the facade that he created.

Katakuri's respect continues to grow for Luffy, especially right here:

And especially here, where Luffy starts to pick up on Katakuri's own Future Sight:

Katakuri would state that he was even beginning to acknowledge Luffy's strength (meaning that he didn't consider Luffy a worthy opponent before):

But the important thing to note is that Katakuri is not yet ready to shed the facade that he has adopted for himself, as the only time Luffy almost knocks him onto his back:

Katakuri shows us that he is not ready to drop the act just yet.

But things go on, and we meet this little shit:

Who is probably the walking embodiment of the big hypocrisy behind Katakuri's actions: the fact that most of his family (the younger siblings and probably most of Tottoland in General) don't actually appreciate him for who he truly is, but rather only care for and idolize the facade that he's created for himself.

So when Katakuri pulls this:

We as the reader can see that the facade is what the majority of Tottoland would prefer to who Katakuri actually is underneath, his core character. I will mention here, this is where Katakuri lost a lot of readers. A lot of people thought that this moment was out of the blue. And could Oda have done a better job at preparing or foreshadowing this? Absolutely yes.

However, the reason I don't think this moment ruins Katakuri as a character, is because when we take a look back at the fight from start to finish, as well as Katakuri's brief childhood backstory...This is really who he actually is as a person. This is probably the most important thing I will type in this entire thread: The Katakuri who fans thought we had come to know before this point, is just the facade. This Katakuri is who he actually is underneath the act that he created for himself. And it is as a direct result of Luffy's actions in the fight, as well as the steadily improving perception that Katakuri has had for him, that this side of Katakuri is revealed to Flampe.

This is why Oda chooses now to have Katakuri remove his scarf. He is both literally and metaphorically shedding the facade and embracing his actual identity. And what do we find underneath his Scarf?

On the back of his jacket, the name "Charlotte." The symbolic meaning behind the word "Charlotte" on Katakuri's back should be pretty obvious, but what's a bit more subtle is about how Katakuri carries his family name underneath his scarf, which is meant to hide himself from the world. Yeah, we literally cannot see the word Charlotte on his back until after he takes his scarf off. On a deeper level, this is a visual representation of how the underlying motivation for Katakuri's Facade (the scarf), and thus how seriously he values the well-being of his family, is the conviction that he has for keeping his family safe. Hence, the family name being literally hidden under his scarf. This is what a brilliant character design looks like (though I won't go off on a tangent on why I love Kuri's overall design here.)

It is not a coincidence that we discover this about Katakuri when we do, as this happens just after Flampe reveals how little her blood connection/familial ties to Katakuri are actually worth:

As all it took was one look at his true appearance, his true self, for her to throw away all of her previous idolization of him. Very literally, Katakuri sighing in the panel that we see his family name on his jacket, is the moment where Katakuri realizes the hypocrisy of covering up his true self in order to protect his family, a family that doesn't value him for who he truly is in the first place.

This complete and utter lack of respect was not reciprocated by his enemy, as Luffy blames himself for not being able to dodge Kuri (even though it clearly wasn't his fault), while simultaneously not caring in the slightest about Katakuri's true appearance, only concerned with his strength:

And then, the culmination of Katakuri's slowly improving perception of Luffy:

From a narrative perspective, the absolute best way of Oda showing two characters as equals, not necessarily in strength, but equal in ambition/stature/worthiness/whatever, is an equal clash of Conqueror's Haki, and this is exactly what we get. It is now that Katakuri sheds his jacket and shows us that beautiful Mochi Phi$ique, and the timing of this moment could not be more perfect. On a symbolic level, Katakuri tossing the jacket off of his back shows that he has found something that he considers more important than protecting a family who doesn't value him the way he values them: a fight the likes of which he has never faced in his life, a fight against an opponent who sees him and his true form for what he is actually worth.

This moment right here, to be exact, is the moment where Luffy has fully earned Katakuri's respect:

It's from this point on where things get very interesting. This is not only the point where Katakuri stops trolling Luffy fully, but this is also where Katakuri starts to show the same amount of passion in the fight that Luffy himself does:

And then we get Katakuri Vs Snake Man, which is really the only time in this entire battle where both Luffy and Katakuri are actually fighting an opponent to which they are virtually equal to in strength. From a characterization standpoint, there is not much else to say about Snake Man vs Katakuri than that, but I will say that I absolutely love the climax of this fight. First off, this double spread:

Is just, in my opinion, one of the coolest pages in Manga ever. And I don't say shit like that lightly.

Secondly, I've seen people say that the culmination of Luffy vs Katakuri was disappointing to them, as we didn't get a "big finisher" like Luffy vs Doflamingo or Luffy vs Cracker. However, I'd argue we actually got something better: A truly meaningful character moment that solidifies and culminates Katakuri's entire character arc.

Firstly, note that as things end, Katakuri still maintains his stance:

This is Oda's final display of Katakuri maintaining the hype around himself, his back hasn't touched the ground since birth, and just when we thought he was defeated, he appears before us on his feet again. Luffy and Katakuri exchange some words, and then:


Katakuri finally falls on his back, and Luffy covers his mouth as a show of respect. The important thing to note here is that Katakuri falls on his back on purpose, and also openly tells Brulee that the Facade he adopted for himself was a lie:

To which Brulee responds that she already knew but she idolized him anyway, which is a great little way of Oda letting Katakuri finally find some peace in all this.

But that's all I've got to say for now! Hopefully I did the Dawg some justice, and hopefully I was at the very least able to help some people who maybe didn't think to highly of Katakuri before see him in a different light. All hail.

What do you guys think? Is Katakuri steaming hot donkey trash? Is Katakuri amazing? Or is he just the most average character of all time?

Share your thoughts, and thank you for reading :)

@Owl Ki @Jiihad @Blackbeard @TheAncientCenturion @Light D Lamperouge @HA001 @Den_Den_Mushi @playa4321 @Sentinel @silverfire @Cinera @Shura @MarineHQ62 @Kiwipom @Chrono etc etc etc etc etc etc
 
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#2
I really wanna quote, but you've written so much....so I dont think I will do any justice.

Anyways, I agree with you on how Katakuri pretends to be someone he's not...seems to be a running theme within the Meme pirates.

However it's the "Respect" that really urks me. I just dont think Luffy has shown anything that should allow Katakuri to "respect" him. Everytime, Luffy did something impressive it either stressed Katakuri or made him scared of Luffy's potential. It never was portrayed as "Respect".

Katakuri wanted to extinguish that potential. Katakuri wanted to protect everyone by killing Luffy or making him join them. Yet at the end he ends up blantantly asking him to take down the Memester.


Im sorry but these 2 panels dont add up for a consistent character.





I just dont see what Luffy has shown him to earn "respect". Why did Katakuri kill chefs for little reason and no regret, yet be happy with Luffy leaving alive and well. Sure now he doesnt care about his secret, but the whole point of the secret was to protect his family. Now he literally let the biggest enemy escape and has confirmation that he will come back and destroy them all. Lmao hes a mess.

Oda just didnt show a realistic enough progression of his character. He literally went from point "A" to point "B", with little to no push. He progressed for no reason. And he's honour or pride thingy was never even touched upon.

Like as soon as he took off his scarf were never shown any more mention to how much he cares and wants to protect his family in the fight. Its like Luffy is a bigger priority then them. Which makes no sense. Instead all we get is him training Luffy. Im sorry we wanted Luffy to have an opponent....not Rayleigh 2.0. And thats why Lucci will always be superior.

So to Katakuri's character growth....all I can really say is.....

 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#3
It's very startling to see people who overreact to Katakuri's liberation in Tottoland. From the beginning of the fight, we were essentially told how it would play out. Luffy and Katakuri, two characters with visually similar powers, fighting alone in the Mirror World. Katakuri was symbolically looking at his reflection and growing frustrated with the carefree attitude and shameless nature of Luffy. To a man who burdens himself with image for the sake of family and pride, someone like Luffy is so threatening to his false life style.

The change wasn't abrupt or a left turn. Oda had it displayed in front of us, letting us reach that conclusion long before the finale of the battle hit us. One of the worst cases of bad reads is people who criticize Katakuri for his "honorable, mans duel" comment. It is evident to even the blind that Katakuri only wants this to be a solo duel because of the promise Luffy shows, the potential for a new (or old) way of life for Katakuri himself. He's entrapped in the young pirate's ambition and attitude. Cutting it short would be like closing off any chance for Katakuri to be himself again. This is his last opportunity to make up for his many years playing a role rather than being himself.

He's looking for answers in Luffy's battle, not to win for the family or for reputation. It's more important that Katakuri knows if it's okay to be Dogtooth and not Charlotte Katakuri the Invincible Man. An added note on design; I love how Oda immediately separates Katakuri from the rest of his family via attire. Every Charlotte family member and most allies wear goofy, flamboyant dresses and outfits that highlights some of their personality or devil fruit powers. No one in this crew makes an effort to hide themselves, they're peacocks and flamingos in the wild. Yet at the Tea Party, the only character who looks threatening is Katakuri. A biker vest, tight leather pants, a covered face for mysterious effects and he even has god damn spurs!

His silhouette and image is meant to stand out against his kin and family member. And it's really clever how Oda does this, too. Because we immediately notice it as "Oh shit, this guy's tough!" due to his Biker from Hell getup. But once the Mirror World hits, it really becomes clear why he stands out. It's not because Oda wants us to think Charlotte Katakuri is tough, but because he wants us to look at Katakuri as the oddball. The only person who restrains himself in the family. Hidden behind the veneer of perfection and power, Katakuri's design itself tells us so much about who he is.

And like you said in your thread, his design changes over the fight. Stripping down the outfit parallel's Katakuri stripping away the act, looking back at the mirror of himself and seeing a bit more of who he truly is. The mouth, the Charlotte embroidery, and the Mochi-enhanced musculature are all examples of this.

It's evident that Oda put a lot of thought into Katakuri, and those who claim he's a last minute arc edition need to reread Tottoland. We get different interpretations of the manga reading in bulk via weekly. The latter allows for better discussion but the former a greater understanding of what Oda's doing. Katakuri and his changing design doesn't represent Oda's time table. For all we know, that was early Dressrosa designs Oda had under consideration. Since Pekoms and Baron Tamago showed up at Dressrosa, we've known that Oda intended them to go to Tottoland. So that large scale planning would make sense, given the complexity of Katakuri's character.

Good thread Major. It was a long read but a good one. And I love how Oda portrays the strong. Perospero yaps on about his bounty, but the truly powerful have no care for it. It's a good distinction in mentality of those worthy of our respect.



 
#6
Appreciate the tag Major, great effort in making this thread! Unfortunately I still stand by my assessment of Katakuri as a poorly written character, but I acknowledge that his thematic, if executed correctly, had the potential to be everything you said it was.

Katakuri wanting to protect his siblings is admirable, but inconsistently written. He covers his face supposedly to protect Brulee, but this was never the issue to begin with. Brulee wasn’t hurt because of his face, she was beaten up in retaliation for Katakuri’s delinquent behaviour. If he truly wanted to protect his siblings from reprisals, the best solution would simply have been to actually uphold what he said (that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him) and ignore the bullies. Alternatively, wreak havoc on the bullies and strike terror into them so that they never approach the Charlottes again. The scarf is entirely unnecessary in all of this and a baffling solution to the issue Katakuri faced at the time.

Katakuri’s supposed love for his family is also highly questionable. He doesn’t react to Opera’s death, and KOs Flampe, a 15 year old girl, in the middle of Mirror World which caves in during his fight with Luffy. At best, that’s irresponsible, at worst, criminally negligent. He wanks Luffy, despite the fact that Luffy’s destruction of the portrait sent Big Mom on a rampage that killed Opera and threatened Perospero’s life. Luffy making it out of Mirror World would also mean he’d have to take out the Charlotte siblings waiting for him on the other side. I can only conclude that Katakuri is either retarded, or he doesn’t really care about his family, because his actions and words are at odds with each other.
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
#7
As usual, I perfectly understand the themes Oda wants to convey with certain characters whether its Rebecca, Oden or in this case Katakuri, but the issue has always been Oda's execution. He always relies on contravinces to get the themes flowing.

Katakuri supposedly cares for his siblings and said Luffy must be taken care of immediately due to the future threat he imposes. What does Katakuri do? He toys with Luffy instead of killing the man who harmed his siblings and while his rampaging mom is out causing chaos and taking the lifespans of his siblings.

Katakuri constantly toying with Luffy only put his family at risk. What's even more baffling is that Katakuri is seemingly ok with Luffy taking out Big Mom despite the fact that his siblings would be in even greater danger without her protection. Even Perospero emphasized this.
 
#8
There were clear contradictions to his character that made no sense. Like Katakuri

(1) saying that Luffy would soon become a threat to Big Mom

(2) not "underestimating him" by thwarting Gear 4 powerup

but somehow it was only at the end that he "acknowledged him". Legit makes 0 sense. Big Mom is 68, she doesn't have that much time as a Yonko. If Luffy in the near future was going to become Yonko level, then he sure as fuck could have stood a chance against Katakuri, especially after just beating a Sweet Commander like Cracker.
 
#9
I agree with what @Den_Den_Mushi said. It's clear to see what Oda was going for, and he was almost capable of pulling it off, but there were multiple missteps in conveying these themes that just don't make it land.

The biggest issue being Katakuri's "respect" for Luffy. The entire part of character development Katakuri seemingly got in regards to his respect for Luffy, was ultimately never a development at all.

You mention that Katakuri slowly begins to respect Luffy throughout the battle as a result of acknowledging Luffy's own growth in strength during the fight. But this is something we'd literally known from before the fight even began.
Katakuri was always fully aware of Luffy's potential. He was aware of his growth rate. That's exactly the reason he targeted him to begin with. Katakuri suddenly respecting Luffy because Luffy kept drawing closer and closer to himself in strength isn't a reason for respect, it's the exact reason why he needs to eliminate Luffy.

Throughout the fight Luffy disregarded the 1 v 1 unspoken agreement that HE initiated. He tried to attack Katakuri's sisters. He ran away from the fight. He kidnapped Brulee, one of the siblings closest to Katakuri and used her as a taxi. Katakuri had no reason to respect this, or Luffy.

You could argue that a point for respect for Luffy could arise due to the similarities of their positions, with them both fighting because their families believed in them. Therefore considering their mirror image, it would make sense for Katakuri to place himself on a level playing field as to not tarnish the battle and the faith placed in both of them if the victor were to only win due to external interference.

However, that's not what happened. Any potential for that to be the case was ruined the moment Luffy used the outside help of Brulee to escape defeat. Had Luffy managed to find some way to survive on his own, without taking Katakuri's sister prisoner and Katakuri witnessed this, then that would've been the perfect reasoning to support him stabbing himself later on. But Luffy didn't. Luffy cheated and used Brulee, instead of his own power to run away.

Luffy even says later on that they are pirates and there's no such thing as fighting dirty or cheating. Which is fair enough, but makes absolutely no sense in the context of the battle. Katakuri was honouring some imaginary honour code that ONLY he was abiding by. He had no reason to respect Luffy since Luffy was cheating and hence the stabbing himself, and all the Luffy wank that came afterwards makes no sense and was poorly written.

Overall Katakuri's certainly an enjoyable character. Had a ton of potential, and even if it wasn't pulled off well, can still be appreciated. I'd give points mainly for the attempt and him being interesting regardless, rather than the execution though, since that was certainly flawed.
 

Jew D. Boy

I Can Go Lower
#10
Nani??!! Lee is about to make a Thread that isn't about Power Levels? TF is this?

Yeah yeah yeah, don't blow a gasket...Lol

So this is actually a post I've wanted to do for a long time now, and being inspired by the new Katakuri threads that were created just recently, I figured I would take a crack at this now. On spoiler day. Genius amirite?

I've seen a lot of people in this community spreading the idea that Katakuri is a poorly written character. I've seen this sentiment take on a few different forms and I've been on and off with these ideas myself (even as Katakuri has occupied a Top 5 spot in my personal favorite OP characters list), but since I've been seeing the regulars here saying he's poorly written, I decided that I would give it my earnest to look at Katakuri as a character and determine for myself whether or not he was actually objectively well written or not. After truly taking a look at Katakuri's life and character, I came to the conclusion that he is one of the best characters that Oda has ever written, and that his fight with Luffy really is one of the best Shonen fights I've ever read. Truly a worthy addition to anyone's top 5 favorite OP character list.

"That's a big statement" you might be saying to yourself, which is good, because if you are thinking this, then you are exactly the type of person I am targeting with this post.

So first off, a question that I feel it is necessary to answer before we even start: Sure Katakuri may have been overlooked by our Fandom as a whole, but...why is a big post like this even necessary? Surely anyone reading this post can just go back and reread the fight if they want to, right? If Katakuri is such an objectively great character, then it shouldn't take a giant essay like post to convince people of that, right? They should just be able to read the Manga and come to that conclusion on their own.

Well, yes and no.

You see, I think this thread is necessary for two reasons:

1. Katakuri is a pretty complex character by Shonen standards, and his underlying motivations and character arc are not easy to understand, even as someone who has read his fight with Luffy and looked over his panel time repeatedly, and as someone who enjoys analyzing fictional characters lol.

2. Oda doesn't actually make it super obvious what Katakuri's character arc even is, or even what his motivations are. So much so that even when I fully thought I understood Katakuri's character the first time reading the Luffy fight through, Chapter 902 came out and pretty much obliterated what I thought I believed about him lol.

So, adding these two points together, and in other words: Katakuri's character and arc are really easy to miss or not notice since Oda doesn't really elaborate on what is actually happening with the Dawg over the course of the fight. Hence, this thread lol. I'm not going to elaborate on the criticisms levied against him, instead I wanted to delve into his psyche and motivations and see exactly what makes him so memorable to myself and many others. With hindsight being 20/20 (pun intended?) I figured now was a great time to take another look at him.

So, let's do this! And thank you all in advance for taking some time to read this gargantuan post lol.

Part I: Core Character and Motivation
So first up, let's look at Katakuri when he was a child, because his motives as a child give us heavy insight into the man he grows into:

From a young age, Katakuri was confident in who he was as a person. His looks didn't bother him, and he didn't care if he didn't make any friends or if people laughed at him. He was totally confident in himself.

This changed pretty quick though:

When instead of coming after him, his "enemies" went after his sister. This has a pretty severe effect on him, as he covers up his actual appearance in order to ultimately protect his family from being harmed because of the way he lives:

This becomes the running theme for Katakuri later in his life. He essentially decides to become something that he is not, IE "the perfect invincible man" in order to protect his family from harm. "Covering up your true self" isn't something exclusive to Kata within the Big Mom Pirates, there are several of his siblings who have designs that show how they cover up who they really are for one reason or another, the most obvious examples I can point to are Pudding:

Who covers up her third eye because she was made fun of for it (even by her own mother) And Cracker:

Who covers up his true appearance because he hates pain. The idea of covering up who you truly are underneath and putting on an external facade is actually one of the core themes of the Whole Cake Island Arc. On the surface, the Big Mom Pirates appear to be a giant family, as they are a giant Pirate crew related by blood and marriages and such, but underneath, their are several moments in the arc where they directly or indirectly harm one another, and otherwise show a lack of caring for the wants and needs of their family. While the Straw Hats on the other hand on the surface appear to be a simple Pirate Crew, a rag-tag group of individuals bound together by nothing, but underneath it is their deep seeded caring for one another and willingness to make huge sacrifices for each other that ties them together, making them a true "family." At least, this is what Oda was going for lol.

The reason that Katakuri covering up his true self is important, is that Katakuri's character design actually changes over the course of the fight, and this change in design is symbolic of Katakuri shedding the identity that he created for himself and revealing who he truly is underneath. This change wouldn't be possible without Luffy, but before we get into that, let's look at another crucially important aspect of Katakuri's Character, the hype surrounding the images of himself that he created.

Part II: Becoming the Hype
There are a few different examples of Katakuri being hyped into oblivion by his own family, whether it be Brulee, Oven, Flampe, the Chefs, the soldiers that accompany him to fight Luffy, etc. But the best moment of Katakuri being hyped into oblivion is this one:

And the reason that this moment is the best is because we see Katakuri's actual reaction to the hype. From his words that are drowned out by Brulee hyping him up, as well as his sigh, we can infer that Katakuri actually doesn't like hearing the own hype that he has decided to embody repeated back at him.

This is interesting because it shows us the conflict within him. On the one hand, he wants to embody the hype in order to protect his family. On the other hand, he doesn't want to embody the hype because it's not who he is as a person.

Having both of these two sentiments present at the same time creates a feeling of pressure-Katakuri wants to be himself, but he can't, as he feels that the best way to keep the people he cares about safe is to have his enemies be terrified of the hyped up version of himself that he has created. He may also consider his true self, the true self we discussed earlier, to be what will ultimately lead to his family suffering harm.

This is probably the ultimate reason that Katakuri has his Merienda every day, as it's a time where he can isolate himself to relieve all the pressure that he himself and his family put on him, and just let lose. It's a time where he can let down all of the weight that he carries on his shoulders:

And just relax for a while.

I love this moment. It's just really funny to me:


Lord Dogtooth is conversing with the "War Spirits" other translations have said the "War God" and no one is to interrupt this "Sacred Ritual." The level of hype here is so ridiculous that it's actually comedic, and it also contributes to the rhetoric of his hype.

Now, just to sum up who Katakuri is, Katakuri is a man who essentially created a false identity for himself because he believes that the perceptions around him will allow him to keep his family safe. Katakuri simultaneously wants to hold up this perception of himself (because it protects his family) but simultaneously doesn't like this perception because the pressure that he's putting on himself to embody the perception is enormous, and on top of that, he likes who he actually is underneath rather than who he pretends to be.

Now with that said, it's time to look at how his fight with Luffy causes him to evolve past himself.

Part 3: Character Arc and Development
Katakuri spends the early portion of his fight with Luffy completely trolling his opponent:


Literally just making moves up on the spot and still overwhelming him

The important part of the early fight is that I don't believe that this Katakuri, the Katakuri who trolls Luffy, is actually who Katakuri is as a person. There are two reasons I don't believe this:

1. Katakuri is still both metaphorically and literally covering his true self up. He is still "playing the part" of the invincible man that he's hyping himself up to be, and his true appearance is still covered up by his scarf, which is symbolic of how he is hiding his true self from the world by the false hype he created for himself.

2. Katakuri is literally making up moves and attacks here. These aren't really a part of his actual fighting style, these are just moves he's creating to troll Luffy. Quite literally, Katakuri is not being who he actually is by using this fighting style.

Katakuri continuously mocks Luffy through the early phases of the fight:

There could be a number of reasons for this, but I like to think that the main reason Luffy has not earned Kuri's respect is how erratic and imperfect Luffy's fighting style actually is. Katakuri is repeatedly knocking Luffy on his ass, and Luffy continuously gets up to keep fighting, while Luffy hasn't made Katakuri's back even touch the ground one time. Katakuri probably sees such an ungraceful/barbaric fighting method as the opposite of his own fighting method, and I think Oda did this on purpose. Having Luffy fly and flail around like an ungraceful monkey, while Katakuri stands tall and gallant throughout the entire fight.

However, it doesn't take too long for Katakuri's actual motivation to shine through:


As Luffy starts to attack his siblings. In the same way that Luffy is fighting Katakuri to protect his crew, Katakuri is also fighting to protect his family, both directly and indirectly. Indirectly by fighting the Straw Hat Captain while his siblings face the rest of the crew, and Directly by stopping Luffy from actually physically attacking his siblings. This is one of the many ways that Katakuri and Luffy "Mirror" each other this fight, but honestly the "mirroring" between Luffy and Katakuri and this fight in general deserves a thread of it's own lol. Maybe I'll do that some day, who knows.

However, as the fight progresses, Kuri begins to grow respect for Luffy:

But even more important than Katakuri's growing respect, or really fear initially, for Luffy is the fact that Luffy actually sees who Katakuri actually is when he finds Katakuri during Merienda. Now the fight has really changed, because not only is Katakuri growing respect towards his enemy, but Luffy is both literally and metaphorically (and accidentally lol) shattering the perception that Katakuri has created around himself:

This moment here in particular, of Luffy kicking Katakuri's mouth out of his scarf, is very symbolic of how Luffy is (accidentally) exposing who Katakuri truly is from the facade that he created.

Katakuri's respect continues to grow for Luffy, especially right here:

And especially here, where Luffy starts to pick up on Katakuri's own Future Sight:

Katakuri would state that he was even beginning to acknowledge Luffy's strength (meaning that he didn't consider Luffy a worthy opponent before):

But the important thing to note is that Katakuri is not yet ready to shed the facade that he has adopted for himself, as the only time Luffy almost knocks him onto his back:

Katakuri shows us that he is not ready to drop the act just yet.

But things go on, and we meet this little shit:

Who is probably the walking embodiment of the big hypocrisy behind Katakuri's actions: the fact that most of his family (the younger siblings and probably most of Tottoland in General) don't actually appreciate him for who he truly is, but rather only care for and idolize the facade that he's created for himself.

So when Katakuri pulls this:

We as the reader can see that the facade is what the majority of Tottoland would prefer to who Katakuri actually is underneath, his core character. I will mention here, this is where Katakuri lost a lot of readers. A lot of people thought that this moment was out of the blue. And could Oda have done a better job at preparing or foreshadowing this? Absolutely yes.

However, the reason I don't think this moment ruins Katakuri as a character, is because when we take a look back at the fight from start to finish, as well as Katakuri's brief childhood backstory...This is really who he actually is as a person. This is probably the most important thing I will type in this entire thread: The Katakuri who fans thought we had come to know before this point, is just the facade. This Katakuri is who he actually is underneath the act that he created for himself. And it is as a direct result of Luffy's actions in the fight, as well as the steadily improving perception that Katakuri has had for him, that this side of Katakuri is revealed to Flampe.

This is why Oda chooses now to have Katakuri remove his scarf. He is both literally and metaphorically shedding the facade and embracing his actual identity. And what do we find underneath his Scarf?

On the back of his jacket, the name "Charlotte." The symbolic meaning behind the word "Charlotte" on Katakuri's back should be pretty obvious, but what's a bit more subtle is about how Katakuri carries his family name underneath his scarf, which is meant to hide himself from the world. Yeah, we literally cannot see the word Charlotte on his back until after he takes his scarf off. On a deeper level, this is a visual representation of how the underlying motivation for Katakuri's Facade (the scarf), and thus how seriously he values the well-being of his family, is the conviction that he has for keeping his family safe. Hence, the family name being literally hidden under his scarf. This is what a brilliant character design looks like (though I won't go off on a tangent on why I love Kuri's overall design here.)

It is not a coincidence that we discover this about Katakuri when we do, as this happens just after Flampe reveals how little her blood connection/familial ties to Katakuri are actually worth:

As all it took was one look at his true appearance, his true self, for her to throw away all of her previous idolization of him. Very literally, Katakuri sighing in the panel that we see his family name on his jacket, is the moment where Katakuri realizes the hypocrisy of covering up his true self in order to protect his family, a family that doesn't value him for who he truly is in the first place.

This complete and utter lack of respect was not reciprocated by his enemy, as Luffy blames himself for not being able to dodge Kuri (even though it clearly wasn't his fault), while simultaneously not caring in the slightest about Katakuri's true appearance, only concerned with his strength:

And then, the culmination of Katakuri's slowly improving perception of Luffy:

From a narrative perspective, the absolute best way of Oda showing two characters as equals, not necessarily in strength, but equal in ambition/stature/worthiness/whatever, is an equal clash of Conqueror's Haki, and this is exactly what we get. It is now that Katakuri sheds his jacket and shows us that beautiful Mochi Phi$ique, and the timing of this moment could not be more perfect. On a symbolic level, Katakuri tossing the jacket off of his back shows that he has found something that he considers more important than protecting a family who doesn't value him the way he values them: a fight the likes of which he has never faced in his life, a fight against an opponent who sees him and his true form for what he is actually worth.

This moment right here, to be exact, is the moment where Luffy has fully earned Katakuri's respect:

It's from this point on where things get very interesting. This is not only the point where Katakuri stops trolling Luffy fully, but this is also where Katakuri starts to show the same amount of passion in the fight that Luffy himself does:

And then we get Katakuri Vs Snake Man, which is really the only time in this entire battle where both Luffy and Katakuri are actually fighting an opponent to which they are virtually equal to in strength. From a characterization standpoint, there is not much else to say about Snake Man vs Katakuri than that, but I will say that I absolutely love the climax of this fight. First off, this double spread:

Is just, in my opinion, one of the coolest pages in Manga ever. And I don't say shit like that lightly.

Secondly, I've seen people say that the culmination of Luffy vs Katakuri was disappointing to them, as we didn't get a "big finisher" like Luffy vs Doflamingo or Luffy vs Cracker. However, I'd argue we actually got something better: A truly meaningful character moment that solidifies and culminates Katakuri's entire character arc.

Firstly, note that as things end, Katakuri still maintains his stance:

This is Oda's final display of Katakuri maintaining the hype around himself, his back hasn't touched the ground since birth, and just when we thought he was defeated, he appears before us on his feet again. Luffy and Katakuri exchange some words, and then:


Katakuri finally falls on his back, and Luffy covers his mouth as a show of respect. The important thing to note here is that Katakuri falls on his back on purpose, and also openly tells Brulee that the Facade he adopted for himself was a lie:

To which Brulee responds that she already knew but she idolized him anyway, which is a great little way of Oda letting Katakuri finally find some peace in all this.

But that's all I've got to say for now! Hopefully I did the Dawg some justice, and hopefully I was at the very least able to help some people who maybe didn't think to highly of Katakuri before see him in a different light. All hail.

What do you guys think? Is Katakuri steaming hot donkey trash? Is Katakuri amazing? Or is he just the most average character of all time?

Share your thoughts, and thank you for reading :)

@Owl Ki @Jiihad @Blackbeard @TheAncientCenturion @Light D Lamperouge @HA001 @Den_Den_Mushi @playa4321 @Sentinel @silverfire @Cinera @Shura @MarineHQ62 @Kiwipom @Chrono etc etc etc etc etc etc
Jesus, Lee...I’ll expand on my response in a few days once I’m done reading this, but kudos on the high effort post regardless :laughmoji:
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
#12
It's very startling to see people who overreact to Katakuri's liberation in Tottoland. From the beginning of the fight, we were essentially told how it would play out. Luffy and Katakuri, two characters with visually similar powers, fighting alone in the Mirror World. Katakuri was symbolically looking at his reflection and growing frustrated with the carefree attitude and shameless nature of Luffy. To a man who burdens himself with image for the sake of family and pride, someone like Luffy is so threatening to his false life style.

The change wasn't abrupt or a left turn. Oda had it displayed in front of us, letting us reach that conclusion long before the finale of the battle hit us. One of the worst cases of bad reads is people who criticize Katakuri for his "honorable, mans duel" comment. It is evident to even the blind that Katakuri only wants this to be a solo duel because of the promise Luffy shows, the potential for a new (or old) way of life for Katakuri himself. He's entrapped in the young pirate's ambition and attitude. Cutting it short would be like closing off any chance for Katakuri to be himself again. This is his last opportunity to make up for his many years playing a role rather than being himself.

He's looking for answers in Luffy's battle, not to win for the family or for reputation. It's more important that Katakuri knows if it's okay to be Dogtooth and not Charlotte Katakuri the Invincible Man. An added note on design; I love how Oda immediately separates Katakuri from the rest of his family via attire. Every Charlotte family member and most allies wear goofy, flamboyant dresses and outfits that highlights some of their personality or devil fruit powers. No one in this crew makes an effort to hide themselves, they're peacocks and flamingos in the wild. Yet at the Tea Party, the only character who looks threatening is Katakuri. A biker vest, tight leather pants, a covered face for mysterious effects and he even has god damn spurs!

His silhouette and image is meant to stand out against his kin and family member. And it's really clever how Oda does this, too. Because we immediately notice it as "Oh shit, this guy's tough!" due to his Biker from Hell getup. But once the Mirror World hits, it really becomes clear why he stands out. It's not because Oda wants us to think Charlotte Katakuri is tough, but because he wants us to look at Katakuri as the oddball. The only person who restrains himself in the family. Hidden behind the veneer of perfection and power, Katakuri's design itself tells us so much about who he is.

And like you said in your thread, his design changes over the fight. Stripping down the outfit parallel's Katakuri stripping away the act, looking back at the mirror of himself and seeing a bit more of who he truly is. The mouth, the Charlotte embroidery, and the Mochi-enhanced musculature are all examples of this.

It's evident that Oda put a lot of thought into Katakuri, and those who claim he's a last minute arc edition need to reread Tottoland. We get different interpretations of the manga reading in bulk via weekly. The latter allows for better discussion but the former a greater understanding of what Oda's doing. Katakuri and his changing design doesn't represent Oda's time table. For all we know, that was early Dressrosa designs Oda had under consideration. Since Pekoms and Baron Tamago showed up at Dressrosa, we've known that Oda intended them to go to Tottoland. So that large scale planning would make sense, given the complexity of Katakuri's character.

Good thread Major. It was a long read but a good one. And I love how Oda portrays the strong. Perospero yaps on about his bounty, but the truly powerful have no care for it. It's a good distinction in mentality of those worthy of our respect.



You've finally seen the light, God bless you son.

@Admiral Lee Hung
Keep spreading the greatness, easily Oda's best creation post timeskip. Monster post.
 
#13
@Admiral Lee Hung fantastic post with a great eye for detail. :kata::akaman:

I am still on the fence about Katakuri himself. I read your post and think “Those are some good points”. Then I see posts from the likes of Den Den and dizzy and think “Those are also some good points”.

Considering that we can get wildly differing opinions on opposite sides of the spectrum regarding the quality of Katakuri’s character then perhaps it is fair to say that Katakuri is a good character with a compelling thematic concept that was executed poorly?

I remember at the time, the three things that turned me off Katakuri were;

I) His presence completely undermined Linlin’s status as the arc antagonist.

An antagonistic character should be someone that opposes the protagonist in a meaningful way, usually through opposing or differing morals, ideologies, outlooks on life, principles etc. etc.

Katakuri clearly had a far more developed role as an antagonist than Linlin which is honestly astonishing since Linlin is a major series antagonist that was revealed all the way back in Water 7 as one of the greatest pirates of the current era and to have ever lived.

In comparison, Katakuri was practically introduced at the last possible moment, being introduced during the beginning of WCI Arc’s climax. For him to outshine Linlin is completely unprecedented and would be akin to Mr 7 and Miss Father’s Day outshining Crocodile.

It is not like Linlin had no opposing ideology to Luffy either. For starters, their views on family and loyalty are chalk and cheese. Lol.

I know one could say that Linlin could shine later in the story (fat chance, pun intended) but it is the first impression that is always the strongest when it comes to story telling and Linlin’s first impression was completely undermined by Katakuri.

II) The reasons for the fight to occur in the first place were nonsense and undermined Luffy’s previously established character.

Luffy was never someone who started conflict with any major arc antagonist. It was always an antagonist that started shit and blocked all options off to the point where Luffy had to confront them for a logical reason (e.g. Crocodile and Alabasta, Enel putting the SH crew on trial, Moriah trapping the crew, CP9 capturing Robin etc.).

Luffy was always more concerned with the safety of his crew and adventure. Deliberately picking fights for no reason was not in his nature. Just look at his interactions with Bellamy during Jaya Arc. Luffy had no interest in an ego contest with Bellamy because such things are meaningless, a lesson he learned from Shanks all the way back in Chapter 1.

Compare that to Luffy abandoning his crew (which is down to 1/2 it’s usual numbers) to a literal Yonko in order to have a fight with Katakuri for the sake of fighting and it suddenly feels less like Luffy vs Katakuri in One Piece and more like Rubber Goku vs Demon King Katakuri in Dragon Ball Sea.

The old Luffy would have prioritised the safety of his crew above all else. Luffy has the chance to either trap Katakuri in the Mirror World by dumping him in there and taking Brûlée hostage or just straight up dumped Katakuri in the ocean. Then he would have protected his crew from the rampaging Yonko Linlin.

Before I hear some objections about how Luffy is not “underhanded”, this is the same Luffy who regularly used people as meat shields since Pre-TS and who was fine with partaking in the assassination of a 68 year old granny by directly triggering a catastrophic mental breakdown.

Seeing such a core aspect of Luffy swept aside just to have a cool fight was utterly disappointing.

III) The entire fight happened during the worst portion of WCI Arc, if not the worst portion of the entire manga. To this day, I am still of the opinion that WCI should have just ended after the Tea Party finished.

So in short, I found it difficult to get invested in Katakuri’s character due to the fact that his fight (the entire source of his character development) happened because of nonsensical circumstances, his development came at the cost of two other characters outright regressing and it happened during a terrible portion of the manga that could have been cut and still changed nothing in regards to the plot.
 
S

Shura

#15
@Admiral Lee Hung fantastic post with a great eye for detail. :kata::akaman:

I am still on the fence about Katakuri himself. I read your post and think “Those are some good points”. Then I see posts from the likes of Den Den and dizzy and think “Those are also some good points”.

Considering that we can get wildly differing opinions on opposite sides of the spectrum regarding the quality of Katakuri’s character then perhaps it is fair to say that Katakuri is a good character with a compelling thematic concept that was executed poorly?

I remember at the time, the three things that turned me off Katakuri were;

I) His presence completely undermined Linlin’s status as the arc antagonist.

An antagonistic character should be someone that opposes the protagonist in a meaningful way, usually through opposing or differing morals, ideologies, outlooks on life, principles etc. etc.

Katakuri clearly had a far more developed role as an antagonist than Linlin which is honestly astonishing since Linlin is a major series antagonist that was revealed all the way back in Water 7 as one of the greatest pirates of the current era and to have ever lived.

In comparison, Katakuri was practically introduced at the last possible moment, being introduced during the beginning of WCI Arc’s climax. For him to outshine Linlin is completely unprecedented and would be akin to Mr 7 and Miss Father’s Day outshining Crocodile.

It is not like Linlin had no opposing ideology to Luffy either. For starters, their views on family and loyalty are chalk and cheese. Lol.

I know one could say that Linlin could shine later in the story (fat chance, pun intended) but it is the first impression that is always the strongest when it comes to story telling and Linlin’s first impression was completely undermined by Katakuri.

II) The reasons for the fight to occur in the first place were nonsense and undermined Luffy’s previously established character.

Luffy was never someone who started conflict with any major arc antagonist. It was always an antagonist that started shit and blocked all options off to the point where Luffy had to confront them for a logical reason (e.g. Crocodile and Alabasta, Enel putting the SH crew on trial, Moriah trapping the crew, CP9 capturing Robin etc.).

Luffy was always more concerned with the safety of his crew and adventure. Deliberately picking fights for no reason was not in his nature. Just look at his interactions with Bellamy during Jaya Arc. Luffy had no interest in an ego contest with Bellamy because such things are meaningless, a lesson he learned from Shanks all the way back in Chapter 1.

Compare that to Luffy abandoning his crew (which is down to 1/2 it’s usual numbers) to a literal Yonko in order to have a fight with Katakuri for the sake of fighting and it suddenly feels less like Luffy vs Katakuri in One Piece and more like Rubber Goku vs Demon King Katakuri in Dragon Ball Sea.

The old Luffy would have prioritised the safety of his crew above all else. Luffy has the chance to either trap Katakuri in the Mirror World by dumping him in there and taking Brûlée hostage or just straight up dumped Katakuri in the ocean. Then he would have protected his crew from the rampaging Yonko Linlin.

Before I hear some objections about how Luffy is not “underhanded”, this is the same Luffy who regularly used people as meat shields since Pre-TS and who was fine with partaking in the assassination of a 68 year old granny by directly triggering a catastrophic mental breakdown.

Seeing such a core aspect of Luffy swept aside just to have a cool fight was utterly disappointing.

III) The entire fight happened during the worst portion of WCI Arc, if not the worst portion of the entire manga. To this day, I am still of the opinion that WCI should have just ended after the Tea Party finished.

So in short, I found it difficult to get invested in Katakuri’s character due to the fact that his fight (the entire source of his character development) happened because of nonsensical circumstances, his development came at the cost of two other characters outright regressing and it happened during a terrible portion of the manga that could have been cut and still changed nothing in regards to the plot.
well put...

As a Luffy fan, I couldn't digest the fact that Luffy fought Katakuri just for the sake of improving himself which outright out of a character for him...

in all the arcs he fought antagonist because he had to, but in case of Katakuri, he fought because of his "inferiority" and "ego" to some extent....in the first place, Luffy brought Katakuri to mirror world because he is the most threatening individual to the crew at that time...

it could have been better if Oda made the fight without Luffy escaping the mirror world and Luffy had to defeat Katakuri in order to get out of the mirror world.....

I personally enjoyed the fight in that wedding cake fiasco but it could have been way better or could have surpassed the impact of Luffy vs Lucci if it had happened without the regression of characters and less PIS effects ....

It could have been better if WCI ended when Sanji reconciled with Luffy and they could have sneaked out the night before tea party.
 
#16
Very nice and well-thought analysis Lee. Katakuri is Indeed a very great character and one of the best introduced after the timeskip and it's in good part for reasons that you listed that he's my personnal favorite character.

However I can understand why people were disatisfied with him, it's true that the way his fight with Luffy has been handled by Oda is rather flawed and that it had many contradictory indications on his character.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#17
Thank you guys for the feedback! Before I respond to some of the counterarguments presented, I just wanted to say that I do so out of respect lol. I just wanted to share my own opinion real quick haha.

Why did Katakuri kill chefs for little reason and no regret, yet be happy with Luffy leaving alive and well. Sure now he doesnt care about his secret, but the whole point of the secret was to protect his family. Now he literally let the biggest enemy escape and has confirmation that he will come back and destroy them all. Lmao hes a mess.
I think this has to do with Flampe, and how Luffy's respect for Katakuri's strength and his complete indifference for his true appearance altered his perception of his role with his family and such.

At first, Katakuri does try to kill Luffy for seeing his true appearance:

But it's not until Luffy fully earns his respect later that he grows to consider his fight with Luffy more important than maintaining the facade and IE protecting his family.

This goes to add on to reason #2 of why I created this thread, Oda doesn't actually specify exactly what is going on with Kuri but I think enough is there that we can read inbetween the lines and infer for ourselves. Imo. Lol

Katakuri wanting to protect his siblings is admirable, but inconsistently written. He covers his face supposedly to protect Brulee, but this was never the issue to begin with. Brulee wasn’t hurt because of his face, she was beaten up in retaliation for Katakuri’s delinquent behaviour. If he truly wanted to protect his siblings from reprisals, the best solution would simply have been to actually uphold what he said (that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him) and ignore the bullies. Alternatively, wreak havoc on the bullies and strike terror into them so that they never approach the Charlottes again. The scarf is entirely unnecessary in all of this and a baffling solution to the issue Katakuri faced at the time.
So, I think I may have actually mis-analyzed child-hood Kuri in the OP, and I will need to go back and edit this to make things more accurate.

But I don't think it's accurate to say that Katakuri doesn't care what anyone thinks of him, because he never actually said that. What Katakuri said was that he doesn't need any friends, and he'll beat up anyone who laughs at him. This to me points to the fact that Katakuri actually does care what people think of him, pretty deeply, it's just that he doesn't care if his looks don't earn him any friends.

So, Katakuri could just not beat up the people who laugh at him, but seeing as how it does seemingly hurt him when people mock his appearance, then this wouldn't really solve his problem. I could see how he'd come to the conclusion that covering his weakness was the only solution, as this would eliminate people laughing at him to begin with, and thus he'd have no need to beat them up and earn enemies because of the way he looks. Is it flawless logic? No, but I think it's sound enough for a character arc lol.

Katakuri’s supposed love for his family is also highly questionable. He doesn’t react to Opera’s death, and KOs Flampe, a 15 year old girl, in the middle of Mirror World which caves in during his fight with Luffy. At best, that’s irresponsible, at worst, criminally negligent. He wanks Luffy, despite the fact that Luffy’s destruction of the portrait sent Big Mom on a rampage that killed Opera and threatened Perospero’s life. Luffy making it out of Mirror World would also mean he’d have to take out the Charlotte siblings waiting for him on the other side. I can only conclude that Katakuri is either retarded, or he doesn’t really care about his family, because his actions and words are at odds with each other.
So, a couple of things here:

1. Is Opera actually dead? Sure he got ragdolled by Meme but we all know what manga this is lol, Moscato directly got his life force stolen by her but he wasn't killed by her.

2. Was right after Flampe mocked him and threatened to expose him to all of Tottoland really the best time to show concern for her? This is exactly the point where Katakuri realizes the full error of his ways, with Flampe being the one who showed him. And besides, being KO'd from Conqueror's Haki is really not the worst thing that can happen to a person lol. We are talking about the same guy who looked like he was about to break Brulee into pieces:
When he thought she was proving a bit too useful to the enemy, so I don't think Kata's idea of "protecting his family from harm" is something as simplistic as "I'd better not use my CoC here because my little sister who just attacked me on a deep level will fall unconscious for a while."

3. As for Perospero, Big Mom threatening Peros had little to do with Luffy, and far more with the fact that Perospero promised Big Mom that there would be a Wedding Cake waiting for her when there actually was none. Not much that Katakuri can do about that tbh, and from a perspective of him contributing to the overall Tottoland crisis, the best thing Kata could've done was fought their enemy while his siblings/chefs prepare a new cake. This was his rationale at the start of the fight, tough to say what he was thinking towards the end lol.

Throughout the fight Luffy disregarded the 1 v 1 unspoken agreement that HE initiated. He tried to attack Katakuri's sisters. He ran away from the fight. He kidnapped Brulee, one of the siblings closest to Katakuri and used her as a taxi. Katakuri had no reason to respect this, or Luffy.
This is true for the first half of the fight, and this is why Katakuri attempted to finish him off via smothering, which Katakuri himself even apologized to Luffy for, as if to say that he knew finishing the fight that way was cheap and dishonorable. So initially, Katakuri did consider the fight to be everything you said it was, it wasn't a "fight between men" at first, it was just Katakuri attempting to kill Luffy through whatever means possible. All of the Gear 4 stuff caused Kuri's perception of Luffy to improve, but Kuri states right before Bound Man runs out that he is invincible as long as he's using CoO, which shows that Luffy hasn't fully earned his respect yet.

It's not until after Luffy goes out of his way to return to the Mirror World, and then starts learning Katakuri's future sight for himself, that Katakuri really begins to fully acknowledge Luffy during their fight. And then of course the Flampe stuff happens which really infuriates him. I think Luffy broke the rules like you said at first, but then after everything that happens later is when Katakuri's own perception of the fight fully changes.

@Owl Ki I actually agree 100% with the three points that you posted and have no counter to them lol. The only thing I will say about them is that those 3 points are not necessarily problems with Katakuri as a character as much as they are problems with the writing of WCI as a whole lol. But Katakuri did undermine Big Mom as a villain, Luffy didn't actually have to fight him to begin with, and WCI was twice as long as it actually needed to be, as an arc lol. I agree with that for sure.
 
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#18
So, I think I may have actually mis-analyzed child-hood Kuri in the OP, and I will need to go back and edit this to make things more accurate.

But I don't think it's accurate to say that Katakuri doesn't care what anyone thinks of him, because he never actually said that. What Katakuri said was that he doesn't need any friends, and he'll beat up anyone who laughs at him. This to me points to the fact that Katakuri actually does care what people think of him, pretty deeply, it's just that he doesn't care if his looks don't earn him any friends.

So, Katakuri could just not beat up the people who laugh at him, but seeing as how it does seemingly hurt him when people mock his appearance, then this wouldn't really solve his problem. I could see how he'd come to the conclusion that covering his weakness was the only solution, as this would eliminate people laughing at him to begin with, and thus he'd have no need to beat them up and earn enemies because of the way he looks. Is it flawless logic? No, but I think it's sound enough for a character arc lol.
its not even katakuri himself who came up with the idea, the idea is suggested to him even before brulee got hurt because of his delinquent behaviour.

So IMO that conclusion of his as a child is sound enough, like you said.

1. Is Opera actually dead? Sure he got ragdolled by Meme but we all know what manga this is lol, Moscato directly got his life force stolen by her but he wasn't killed by her.
With moscato the other siblings who were around at least collected spare lifespan (iirc) to keep him alive (wasnt directly shown on panel though).

Its probably safe to assume that opera has died, as the BMP were quite busy after he got his lifespan sucked out.

It's not until after Luffy goes out of his way to return to the Mirror World, and then starts learning Katakuri's future sight for himself, that Katakuri really begins to fully acknowledge Luffy during their fight. And then of course the Flampe stuff happens which really infuriates him. I think Luffy broke the rules like you said at first, but then after everything that happens later is when Katakuri's own perception of the fight fully changes.
but here the point was that luffy breaking the rules should disqualify luffy to earn katas respect in the first place. Abiding by the rules mid-fight is not respectable,honorable, whatever.
 
#19
But I don't think it's accurate to say that Katakuri doesn't care what anyone thinks of him, because he never actually said that. What Katakuri said was that he doesn't need any friends, and he'll beat up anyone who laughs at him. This to me points to the fact that Katakuri actually does care what people think of him, pretty deeply, it's just that he doesn't care if his looks don't earn him any friends.
But therein lies the problem. You can’t say ‘I am who I am’ and then follow it up by announcing you care so much about others’ opinions that you’d beat them to a pulp for laughing at your appearance. That’s contradictory. Either Katakuri did have internalised self loathing, or he didn’t. There is no in between.


So, Katakuri could just not beat up the people who laugh at him, but seeing as how it does seemingly hurt him when people mock his appearance, then this wouldn't really solve his problem. I could see how he'd come to the conclusion that covering his weakness was the only solution, as this would eliminate people laughing at him to begin with, and thus he'd have no need to beat them up and earn enemies because of the way he looks. Is it flawless logic? No, but I think it's sound enough for a character arc lol.
I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree. The scarf suggested that Katakuri did loathe himself because of his appearance, which was backed up by his reaction to Luffy seeing his face. His childhood flashback contradicts that by having him state that he is what he is, and he’s not going to cover up so others will befriend him. His appearance isn’t a weakness, never was. His own juvenile reaction to being taunted was his weakness; Brûlée got hurt because Katakuri was unable to control his temper.


When he thought she was proving a bit too useful to the enemy, so I don't think Kata's idea of "protecting his family from harm" is something as simplistic as "I'd better not use my CoC here because my little sister who just attacked me on a deep level will fall unconscious for a while."
That’s not it though, he knocked Flampe out in the middle of a battlefield which caved in during a chaotic fight. I can only conclude that he didn’t care about her potential injury or death, just as he showed no reaction to Opera dying. Katakuri does not care about his family, otherwise he would not support Luffy, who has done nothing but put the Charlotte family in danger.


As for Perospero, Big Mom threatening Peros had little to do with Luffy, and far more with the fact that Perospero promised Big Mom that there would be a Wedding Cake waiting for her when there actually was none. Not much that Katakuri can do about that tbh, and from a perspective of him contributing to the overall Tottoland crisis, the best thing Kata could've done was fought their enemy while his siblings/chefs prepare a new cake. This was his rationale at the start of the fight, tough to say what he was thinking towards the end lol.
But why did Perospero even need to gamble his life on the cake in the first place? Because Luffy destroyed Carmel’s photo and sent Big Mom into a rampage. Luffy’s actions put all the Charlotte siblings in danger, from when he sent Big Mom into a rampage, and when he planned to take out Big Mom, whose presence keeps her territories safe. Katakuri’s ‘love’ for his family is contrived, poorly written and inconsistent.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#20
But therein lies the problem. You can’t say ‘I am who I am’ and then follow it up by announcing you care so much about others’ opinions that you’d beat them to a pulp for laughing at your appearance. That’s contradictory. Either Katakuri did have internalised self loathing, or he didn’t. There is no in between.
I think in saying “I am who I am” is Katakuri’s own way of demonstrating that, at the time, he had no intention of hiding his true appearance from the world like his siblings suggested. It’s not necessarily him saying he doesn’t care what others thing. In fact like I said, I think the fact that he’s willing to beat other people up for laughing at him shows that he does care what they think of him.

“I refuse to hide my appearance, and I’ll beat up anyone who laughs at me” are not contradictory imo. It’s basically the same philosophy childhood pudding had about her own appearance lol.

I think it’s not that Katakuri thinks putting on his scarf is what will protect his family, it’s that he cares so deeply about what others think of him that he’d be unable to restrain himself from beating them up for making fun of him, and he doesn’t want anyone retaliating against his family for this, so he covers himself.

Rational? No. Characters frequently make emotional decisions over rational ones. Does it make for a consistent character? I would argue yes.

I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree. The scarf suggested that Katakuri did loathe himself because of his appearance, which was backed up by his reaction to Luffy seeing his face. His childhood flashback contradicts that by having him state that he is what he is, and he’s not going to cover up so others will befriend him. His appearance isn’t a weakness, never was. His own juvenile reaction to being taunted was his weakness; Brûlée got hurt because Katakuri was unable to control his temper.
He won’t cover himself up to earn friends, but he will cover himself up to protect his family.

We may never see eye to eye on this, but at least we both tried amirite?
(ᴗ ͜ʖ ᴗ)
 
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