Speculations I think the "final order" of antagonists is reasonable to consider when you think about Luffy and Zoro's matchups together

[Roo]

That's one of the points why I think it is in everybodys face: the only way for Kidd to conclude his chase of the One Piece is to be fairly beaten by Luffy, in a place that is the direct gate to the One Piece (Lodestar, right before Laugh Tale).
Lot of users thought a realistic way would have been for Kidd to become an official ally of Luffy in Wano, by joining the Grand Fleet or something like that. They were proven wrong, of course, which leaves the 1v1 as the only possible way to close that chapter.

Now that we are talking about it, what are the fights you can see Kidd, Law and even Killer be engaged in AFTER Laugh Tale? For example in Mary Geoise... I mean, there's no way they'll just sit in the corner.
A guess of mine sees Kidd fighting Kong and Law fighting Sengoku, for example. Or Law fighting Issho... or assisting against Imu.
There are a lot of possibilities for Law.
Can't really tell for Killer, but Lucci seems like a good posibility at the moment.
Best Assassin on the Pirate side vs Best Assassin on the Governament side (?)
What do you think?

I think this is the order for the worst gen trio

Arc 1:
Law loses his glyphs vs BB
Luffy beats Kid, ending his PK chase

Arc 2:
Law either allies with BB, or fights Luffy for the glyphs.

Arc 3:
Luffy vs BB and winner goes to Laugh Tale, either Law goes with him or Luffy tells him about the Will of D afterwards

Arc 4:
Kid and Law fight Greenbull and Fujitora, Luffy vs Akainu
Luffy & Law vs Imu. Law attempts immortality surgery to help Luffy

 

[SakazOuki]

I'm talking about your assuming chugging is a feat of being winning, following your reasoning Zoro pre ACoC could beat Kaido 100%.

Chugging? Chugging is a feat? What in the fuck are you talking about lmfao

You can read Kizaru vs Rayleigh, it's not hard to use Google.

All I read saw is Rayleigh stating he'd try and help them if he was younger.
Someone retarded would probably interpret it as Rayleigh being capable of actually doing it, or at least doing it without major compromise. Luckily I don't know someone like that.

 

[Taixu]

Chugging? Chugging is a feat? What in the fuck are you talking about lmfao


All I read saw is Rayleigh stating he'd try and help them if he was younger.
Someone retarded would probably interpret it as Rayleigh being capable of actually doing it, or at least doing it without major compromise. Luckily I don't know someone like that.

Now you're pretending you didn't say anything lol, you're taking Rayleigh's snorting as feat for Kizaru.

Someone retarded would assume that Kizaru would make coffee while watching Rayleigh beat his minions and ST escape.

 

[nik87]

-If we go with option one, then Kizaru overwhelmed a low-mid top tier swordsman with a non lightspeed crappy light sword.
This makes him PK+ if he actually wants to use his devil fruit to full effect.

-If we go with option 2, then Ray can travel at the speed of light like Kizaru does, which is not true.
Old and Rusty don't really change much, age is kinda bullshit in this manga. Ray went from High Top tier to Low-Mid top tier.

What makes sense is Rayleigh having top tier physicals, reaction speed and exceptional CoO to keep up with a lightspeed man, but is still huffing from overwhelming speed. If Vergo can travel faster than Shambles, then someone like Rayleigh should intercept Kizaru even if he's being overwhelmed lol

So he's not lightspeed in the literal sense, but his CoO, skills, top tier physicals and reaction speed allow him to block lightspeed attacks

Or Kizaru cant do better considering he was venting his frustrations. Stop dreaming about PK level which never existed.
But we know for a fact that Rayleigh is fast enough to match everything Kizaru does.
This leaves us with Kizaru never being lightspeed in the first place.

Nobody huffs from "overwhelming speed". One huffs from old age and exhaustion.
But Rayleigh was never overwhelmed. He was looking away and keeping an eye on SHs wanting to help them...
He can only keep up with light speed movement if he has lightspeed movement. Or Kizaru doesnt have lightspeed movement.
This isnt rocket science.

Shanks is not that strong

What happens to Luffy when Shanks cuts him clean? Is Luffy as tough as Kaido for it to just leave a papercut?
On the other side, Shanks fought Kaido and couldnt even leave a papercut so who knows...
Maybe Luffy will really be fine after a top tier swordsman cuts him clean...

After all, he was absolutely fine when Mihawk slashed him. All that's left is for him to be immune to light as he was to fire...
Because why not... Looney Tunes can do everything, even things that make no sense whatsoever.

 

[rerere]

Totally. Yes, i think once a concession is made (via a probable fight), it makes most sense for all Supernova to side with Luffy in the end. People like Hawkins and Apoo seem out of the running, and Drake, Bonney and Bege all seem to have unrelated goals now. That ultimately just leaves Kid and Law (and Urouge but its likely he has some Sky/Moon/Elbaf lore coming and then its resolved), as highlighted.

I can definitely see them even fighting some Gorosei if they are powerful, but Kong/Garp/Sengoku are definitelt not bad picks depending on their roles in the war as well.

We should technically exclude Law too, since he's looking for History and the Meaning of D.
One Piece is simply necessary (probably) to reach that goal.
Kidd, on the other hand, is the only one who wants to find the One Piece simply for the sake of his Conquering instinct, like Luffy.

As for why I mentioned Kong/Sengoku is a simple gut feeling...
- Kong is the Supreme Military Commander and Kidd has some military themes in him since his epithet is Captain, he loves collecting weapons and uses them in battle, and also has a couple references to Captain Ahab... It would make for a battle between a Methodic, Supreme Military General and a Chaotic, Rough and Impertinent Smuggler.
Plus, since I expect Kidd to be beaten by an ape (Luffy) I can see him having his revenge by defeating the big ape (Kong)

- Sengoku is heavily tied to Law as we all know, by Rocinante, so that would make for a great confrontation between their relationship with Rocy (Sengoku who saved Rocinante and grew him to become a Marine, Law who was saved by Rocinante himself and grew to become a pirate) and for their conflicting ideas and view of the world (Sengoku as the one who always did the best to keep the balance & Law who literally broke the gears and started this unstoppable wave).
Sengoku, even if with good heart, always did his best to censure the true history when he was Fleet Admiral, Law is doing his best to uncover it...

These are, of course, my 2 cents.
It's really difficult to make prediction for an arc like Mary Geoise, that will be chaotic as hell by itself.

 

[SakazOuki]

Now you're pretending you didn't say anything lol, you're taking Rayleigh's snorting as feat for Kizaru.

Do you know what snorting and chugging means?
I said Rayleigh being on the backfoot and huffing, meaning he's slowly losing his stamina. That's Kizaru having the upperhand.

Someone retarded would assume that Kizaru would make coffee while watching Rayleigh beat his minions and ST escape.

Exactly, Rayleigh can get Kizaru off his tail for a while and in a flash of a second blitz Sentomaru and the pacifista.
But seeing how Kizaru is not sipping coffee, Rayleigh would pay the price, that is if he succeeds.

 

[rerere]

I think this is the order for the worst gen trio

Arc 1:
Law loses his glyphs vs BB
Luffy beats Kid, ending his PK chase

Arc 2:
Law either allies with BB, or fights Luffy for the glyphs.

Arc 3:
Luffy vs BB and winner goes to Laugh Tale, either Law goes with him or Luffy tells him about the Will of D afterwards

Arc 4:
Kid and Law fight Greenbull and Fujitora, Luffy vs Akainu
Luffy & Law vs Imu. Law attempts immortality surgery to help Luffy

I see you but what I have difficulties picturing is Arc 4.
Not all that but just Kidd vs Aramaki, I don't see the conflict except for them both being wild mfs...

 

[Roo]

I see you but what I have difficulties picturing is Arc 4.
Not all that but just Kidd vs Aramaki, I don't see the conflict except for them both being wild mfs...

Because Kid is hard to fit into the story right now lol. Law fits seemingly perfect compared to Kid who's role in the story is unknown post PK chase.

One thing I can see is due to Kid's upbringing and disdain of the nobles, him and GB will have huge differences with how the world should be ruled.

 

[SakazOuki]

Or Kizaru cant do better considering he was venting his frustrations.

What does venting his frustration from Kuma helping the SHs have to do with this.

Nobody huffs from "overwhelming speed". One huffs from old age and exhaustion.

You huff when you exert too much effort, which can happen when you're fighting someone with overwhelming speed.

But Rayleigh was never overwhelmed. He was looking away and keeping an eye on SHs wanting to help them...

Definitely was, he was being losing stamina faster than Kizaru was.

 

[nik87]

What does venting his frustration from Kuma helping the SHs have to do with this.

Because it wasnt Kuma who stopped him, it was old rusty retired dude.

You huff when you exert too much effort, which can happen when you're fighting someone with overwhelming speed.

Or you are simply old and your stamina isnt as it once was.
And from what I remember, Zoro started huffing without anyone with overwhelming speed going against him.

Definitely was, he was being losing stamina faster than Kizaru was.

That's not overwhelming, that's just being old. Overwhelming is what Kaku's yontoryu did to Zoro's santoryu.

 

[rerere]

Because Kid is hard to fit into the story right now lol. Law fits seemingly perfect compared to Kid who's role in the story is unknown post PK chase.

One thing I can see is due to Kid's upbringing and disdain of the nobles, him and GB will have huge differences with how the world should be ruled.

That is a good point, Aramaki is the highest defender of Classism as far as we know.

 

[SakazOuki]

Because it wasnt Kuma who stopped him, it was old rusty retired dude.

Good troll. He was mad about compromising the relations with Mariejos

Or you are simply old and your stamina isnt as it once was.

This doesn't go against my point tho, old age reduced his lung capacity so he tired out quickly, and naturally his reaction speed.

That's not overwhelming, that's just being old.

Well it's Old Rayleigh, what did you expect lol
Borsalino overwhelmed him with his speed, which slowly but surely depletes his stamina.

 

[nik87]

Good troll.

There is no troll. Sentomaru himself said that Kizaru is stopped by Rayleigh.
Rayleigh is the one who kept him pressured and occupied, nobody else.
That's what prevented him from doing anything.

This doesn't go against my point tho, old age reduced his lung capacity so he tired out quickly, and naturally his reaction speed.

None of this is changing the fact that Rayleigh is moving as fast as Kizaru because he is matching his every move.

Well it's Old Rayleigh, what did you expect lol
Borsalino overwhelmed him with his speed, which slowly but surely depletes his stamina.

He didnt. Being overwhelmed means you are on the back foot. Rayleigh never was.
In fact, Kizaru is admitting that he is making him look bad because he isnt fully concentrated on him.

 

[SakazOuki]

There is no troll. Sentomaru himself said that Kizaru is stopped by Rayleigh.
Rayleigh is the one who kept him pressured and occupied, nobody else.
That's what prevented him from doing anything.

No need to twist things, Kizaru was casual as his subordinates were strong enough to deal with the rest.
He was mad that the whole mission failed, primarily at the hands of Kuma.

None of this is changing the fact that Rayleigh is moving as fast as Kizaru because he is matching his every move.

Yupp, though eventually he exerted too much effort and started losing stamina

He didnt. Being overwhelmed means you are on the back foot. Rayleigh never was.
In fact, Kizaru is admitting that he is making him look bad because he isnt fully concentrated on him.

Rayleigh is, literally speaking, on the backfoot.
And since he can only defend and being depleted of stamina, he's being outclassed lol

 

[Albino 👑]

If Kizaru is a swordsman, then so is Arlong

He even fought kuro right before

Post automatically merged: Dec 13, 2022

I do think imu is most likely the final villain tho i wonder how theyd fight
If bb vs luffy is about light vs dark id imagine luffy vs imu would be the freedom vs control

So basically doffy on steroids

 

[nik87]

No need to twist things, Kizaru was casual as his subordinates were strong enough to deal with the rest.
He was mad that the whole mission failed, primarily at the hands of Kuma.

He was mad Rayleigh stopped him from doing anything, including capturing SN captains who Kuma didnt send away.
No need for copium, just accept facts.

Yupp, though eventually he exerted too much effort and started losing stamina

So, a guy who didnt eat Light fruit can move at the same speed. What is Kizaru better at then for eating that fruit?
Where is the "muh lightspeed" advantage that yall were talking so much about?

Rayleigh is, literally speaking, on the backfoot.
And since he can only defend and being depleted of stamina, he's being outclassed lol

There is no such thing. He is literally matching Kizaru blow for blow.
>outclassed
You dont know anymore who is the most delusional in this fandom...

 

[BOCCHI]

Why not? Luffy can’t do it because he’s supposed to be the hero, and the marines are generally looked upon as a good organization in the world. So unless luffys going to be seen as a villain to the op world EOS I can’t see luffy beating the marines.

Cross guild doesn’t have the power to defeat the admirals, maybe one, but three? That’s too much for them to handle.

 

[SakazOuki]

He was mad Rayleigh stopped him from doing anything, including capturing SN captains who Kuma didnt send away.
No need for copium, just accept facts.

You’re trying to push it too hard, that’s where the delusion lies.
Rayleigh contributed to the failure of the mission, but Kizaru was mad because the mission failed, not at Rayleigh personally

So, a guy who didnt eat Light fruit can move at the same speed. What is Kizaru better at then for eating that fruit?
Where is the "muh lightspeed" advantage that yall were talking so much about?

Kizaru will always be faster than his opponent, but thinking “lightspeed” can be taking seriously in this manga is wishful thinking
If Kizaru moved at the speed of light literally he could go around the earth in .13 seconds lol

There is no such thing. He is literally matching Kizaru blow for blow.
>outclassed
You dont know anymore who is the most delusional in this fandom...

While losing stamina in real time -> outclassed

 

[nik87]

You’re trying to push it too hard, that’s where the delusion lies.
Rayleigh contributed to the failure of the mission, but Kizaru was mad because the mission failed, not at Rayleigh personally

Rayleigh is the only one who stood in his way, nobody else.

Kizaru will always be faster than his opponent, but thinking “lightspeed” can be taking seriously in this manga is wishful thinking
If Kizaru moved at the speed of light literally he could go around the earth in .13 seconds lol

He will always be faster than his opponent except when the opponent is matching him blow for blow... Right...

While losing stamina in real time -> outclassed

So he is outclassing him in stamina, not in speed?
Wasnt your argument about speed instead of stamina?

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Cross guild doesn’t have the power to defeat the admirals, maybe one, but three? That’s too much for them to handle.

They can absolutely take out at least two admirals since Mihawk and Croc should each be able to solo one.

Akainu has been complaining about being stuck in Mariejoa, I feel like the attack will happen when Akainu just decides to leave and lead an attack against the revs.

And Kizarus losing here in Eggheead imo.