There's always more to an issue than your personal experiences.
In that case it's not about my experience, it about the sociological situation of men trying to fill the wrong problem.
It's wrong to try and judge the world from your own custom filters.
Hm no. Not always. If for example my filter is an antifascist one and I'm analysing the world of the actual conservative movement in the world today. The rise of fascism observed in that situation would be a perefectly legitimate observation and a coherent one. But again, I'm not talking here only through my lense, so you are pointing the wrong problem.
Sometimes, it could be as simple as the guy not having proper exposure to women to approach one, or sometimes it's the fear of rejection
Of course, and that's okay. That's why we need more education on masculinity and that's why I now always have one video of the pop culture detective in my signature. Education is a cornerstone to attack those problematics.
Even if they're in a miserable state, they're at least trying to learn what they're lacking by consulting others. It's not a bad thing.
That's a relativistic point of view. In some case no, it's no a bad thing to actually consult others on certain topic. In other cases, it is.
Stop the relativistic BS with me please, it doesn't work. There is no excuse when you follow someone who promote violent and toxic behavior toward women or toward other groups of people.
It's at least better than staying in your basement and blaming women for it.
No. Sometimes it's worst. Because by engaging those type of person, we actually give them legitimacy. A.Tate wouldn't be such a phenomenon if people instead of following him and therefore enabling his behavior toward women were actually just staying silently in their mother's garages. The simple act of following a person is enough to cause harm. And that's something people will have to understand sooner or later.
Whether someone is qualified to seek help or not is not up to you to decide.
Of course, and contrary to what you are implying, that's not what I said. I said that there is "no shame in seeking for help". Isn't that clear enough for you or do you need to twist my words once again ?
People are free to do what they want, but we are also free to criticize toxic behavior when those are harmfull to others.
And it's funny how you're mocking people for seeking help while sitting here and dictating how they should live their own lives.
It's the last time you will EVER try to imply that I mock people who are seeking for help :)
I will not accept this kind of accusation. For your information - not that you need to hear this - I'm someone
who has been struggling with mental illness for years now. So I'm
well aware of the benefit of seeking for help. And what I said was in COMPLETE opposition of a mockery. I'm actually promoting the fact that people SHOULD go get help. Because I know all too well how depression, loneliness and the lack of relationships can affect the mind and the body.
You actually managed to trigger me. Good job. Even the Nakama thread wasn't able to do that.
But I stand still.
Depression is NOT an excuse for being a bigot, a racist, a sexist, a transphobe or a fascist.
Now what must indeed be done, is the education on people, to learn to seek for that help instead of falling under the claws of people like Tate. Again, that's why I oppened the left Space and that's why I promote content about masculinity on this forum.
Sure, it's advisable but I am afraid it's not up to you to decide who they should consult. Different people have different circumstances.
I agree. The only thing that we can do is to open the door for them. It begins with deconstruction the apprehension of getting that help.
There's nothing inherently intolerable about people seeking help when they can't get what they want.
Like I said, some behavior are actually harmfull to society. Promoting ideologies like the ones of Tate (for example of course) is one example of that. It's harmfull to women and it's harmfull to men themself. So the simple act of their promotion should and MUST be criticized.
Like I said, there is no shame in seeking for help, but there are professionnals for that. Actual doctors.
It's no different from how you'd reach out to people for advice when nothing seems to be working in your professional life, for instance.
Problem is that when you are seeking for the advice of one of your friend, that friend don't gain more visibility for the entire world. So if your friend is a toxic loser, he will stay that way, that's not the case of dating Gurus.
but you can't outright bash and attack them just for seeking help
And like I said (again) nobody is doing that. What we are criticizing is not the action of seeking for help. If you feel lonelly and sad, youare probably on a path to a depression so you SHOULD seek for help, what we are criticizing are the
people they are seeking for help.
You're openly bashing men just for seeking help with dates
No, it's okay to seek help. Like I said, a little advice from a GENDER RELATIVE dating advisor like Hayley Quinn (if you are a men) can be a good option to lay out the last part of your skill in term of attractiveness. But even then, it's the wrong answer.
Dating Gurus are the wrong answer to a real problem.
The problem of men of our generation is a lack of self confidence and a mindset that create an incompatibility with the behavior that the society requieres from us and our relationship to our own masculinity.
The answer is simple: Learning to know yourself and act with empathy toward society.
The act of dating is simple, it's the act of preentation of oneself toward another individual. So, if you are not true to yourself, whatever you do, you will NEVER be able to find or to maintain love. The same way, if you can't act with empathy, you will NEVER be able to maintain love either.
That's why we must work on a GOOD representation of masculinity and NOT a bad one like the one Andrew tate is promoting. Because what Guru like him tend to do is to give a plan to become something you are not and that you were NEVER meant to be.
We are human, we are born to be social. We are not constructed to stamp on eachothers.
Lol, you're literally discouraging people not to get help by calling them sexist or incels without even having an idea of who they're consulting or for what they're consulting who they're consulting.
Following a dating Guru is not consulting. it's following the principle of a Guru.
Consulting or seeking help is something ENTIRELY different.
And when people are sexist we MUST call them out.
it's equally true that depression is what's turning these people into bigots or sexist in most cases
No
NO
NO
That's a complete missunderstanding of the sociology of those type of individual. Depression will
never make you into a bigot, it only make you seek.
What makes you a bigot, or a sexist, or a fascist, is the environment you choose to entertain you with. It's the people you follow. it's the book you read, it's the movie you'll watch. Seomtimes it will be your friend, sometimes your family,
but it will NEVER be your body.
which might prevent them from turning sexist.
Yes, but when they are, those behavior must be punished, socially at least.
Concerning the prevention, it's cool to say "don't attack them", it's better to actually provide good content to actually try to prevent those problems.
And i'm sorry.. but right now.. between you and I, the one who is actually doing the work is not really you.
So please....... stay away when we call out sexist behavior. Listen at the very least to what we are saying because we actually know what we are talking about. And if you see us provide some ressource to help prevent people to become sexist or to help them learn about their own masculinity and therefore become less toxic against women...well, don't interfere.
We're okay ?
Fine.
Then now, what I propose is for you to actually prove me that you want to change things in promoting actual healthy masculinity and behavior by sharing those video with the forum:
[automerge]1672465198[/automerge]
Okay, so we are already "there"...
