You don't consider folks associating to your deranged logic decent.. Then that's one heck of a compliment
And you sure like to put words in my mouth i never said that there can't be times where the wife is a better decision maker, better leader, be more enduring etc at times wherw the man is in a mental frenzy or other situations unless you wanna consider my words to pertain no exceptions coz you really wanna nail me down aye Lol
But again generally i maintain that men are the ones that lead by default.
You should've explained it a bit more in detail in that post. Sure, it's true men lead or act as the head of families most of the time but saying "only men take the lead in marriages" does sound sexist even if it's not your intention. That statement alone made the rest of the post kinda redundant.
You should've explained it a bit more in detail in that post. Sure, it's true men lead or act as the head of families most of the time but saying "only men take the lead in marriages" does sound sexist even if it's not your intention. That statement alone made the rest of the post kinda redundant.
And why's it bad if he gets less pussy? Are we validating people based on the number of pussy they get?
Hm no. Not always. If for example my filter is an antifascist one and I'm analysing the world of the actual conservative movement in the world today. The rise of fascism observed in that situation would be a perefectly legitimate observation and a coherent one. But again, I'm not talking here only through my lense, so you are pointing the wrong problem.
Of course, and that's okay. That's why we need more education on masculinity and that's why I now always have one video of the pop culture detective in my signature. Education is a cornerstone to attack those problematics.
That's a relativistic point of view. In some case no, it's no a bad thing to actually consult others on certain topic. In other cases, it is.
Stop the relativistic BS with me please, it doesn't work. There is no excuse when you follow someone who promote violent and toxic behavior toward women or toward other groups of people.
No. Sometimes it's worst. Because by engaging those type of person, we actually give them legitimacy. A.Tate wouldn't be such a phenomenon if people instead of following him and therefore enabling his behavior toward women were actually just staying silently in their mother's garages. The simple act of following a person is enough to cause harm. And that's something people will have to understand sooner or later.
Of course, and contrary to what you are implying, that's not what I said. I said that there is "no shame in seeking for help". Isn't that clear enough for you or do you need to twist my words once again ?
People are free to do what they want, but we are also free to criticize toxic behavior when those are harmfull to others.
It's the last time you will EVER try to imply that I mock people who are seeking for help :)
I will not accept this kind of accusation. For your information - not that you need to hear this - I'm someone who has been struggling with mental illness for years now. So I'm well aware of the benefit of seeking for help. And what I said was in COMPLETE opposition of a mockery. I'm actually promoting the fact that people SHOULD go get help. Because I know all too well how depression, loneliness and the lack of relationships can affect the mind and the body.
You actually managed to trigger me. Good job. Even the Nakama thread wasn't able to do that.
But I stand still. Depression is NOT an excuse for being a bigot, a racist, a sexist, a transphobe or a fascist.
Now what must indeed be done, is the education on people, to learn to seek for that help instead of falling under the claws of people like Tate. Again, that's why I oppened the left Space and that's why I promote content about masculinity on this forum.
Like I said, some behavior are actually harmfull to society. Promoting ideologies like the ones of Tate (for example of course) is one example of that. It's harmfull to women and it's harmfull to men themself. So the simple act of their promotion should and MUST be criticized.
Like I said, there is no shame in seeking for help, but there are professionnals for that. Actual doctors.
Problem is that when you are seeking for the advice of one of your friend, that friend don't gain more visibility for the entire world. So if your friend is a toxic loser, he will stay that way, that's not the case of dating Gurus.
And like I said (again) nobody is doing that. What we are criticizing is not the action of seeking for help. If you feel lonelly and sad, youare probably on a path to a depression so you SHOULD seek for help, what we are criticizing are the people they are seeking for help.
No, it's okay to seek help. Like I said, a little advice from a GENDER RELATIVE dating advisor like Hayley Quinn (if you are a men) can be a good option to lay out the last part of your skill in term of attractiveness. But even then, it's the wrong answer.
Dating Gurus are the wrong answer to a real problem.
The problem of men of our generation is a lack of self confidence and a mindset that create an incompatibility with the behavior that the society requieres from us and our relationship to our own masculinity.
The answer is simple: Learning to know yourself and act with empathy toward society.
The act of dating is simple, it's the act of preentation of oneself toward another individual. So, if you are not true to yourself, whatever you do, you will NEVER be able to find or to maintain love. The same way, if you can't act with empathy, you will NEVER be able to maintain love either.
That's why we must work on a GOOD representation of masculinity and NOT a bad one like the one Andrew tate is promoting. Because what Guru like him tend to do is to give a plan to become something you are not and that you were NEVER meant to be.
We are human, we are born to be social. We are not constructed to stamp on eachothers.
Lol, you're literally discouraging people not to get help by calling them sexist or incels without even having an idea of who they're consulting or for what they're consulting who they're consulting.
That's a complete missunderstanding of the sociology of those type of individual. Depression will never make you into a bigot, it only make you seek.
What makes you a bigot, or a sexist, or a fascist, is the environment you choose to entertain you with. It's the people you follow. it's the book you read, it's the movie you'll watch. Seomtimes it will be your friend, sometimes your family, but it will NEVER be your body.
Yes, but when they are, those behavior must be punished, socially at least.
Concerning the prevention, it's cool to say "don't attack them", it's better to actually provide good content to actually try to prevent those problems.
And i'm sorry.. but right now.. between you and I, the one who is actually doing the work is not really you.
So please....... stay away when we call out sexist behavior. Listen at the very least to what we are saying because we actually know what we are talking about. And if you see us provide some ressource to help prevent people to become sexist or to help them learn about their own masculinity and therefore become less toxic against women...well, don't interfere.
We're okay ?
Fine.
Then now, what I propose is for you to actually prove me that you want to change things in promoting actual healthy masculinity and behavior by sharing those video with the forum:
The problem is that gender are not a matter of point of view or morals. Those are scientific fact.
Therefore by denying genders, you would deny reality.
Not only that but you would also deny the reality and the existence of actual living people. In short this would be a pure and utter dehumanization of people that exist in the real world. Just like the Empire does to Droids and rebels, or like what the world gouvernment does to the Fishmen and the minks. Or like the Nazi did to the Jews, the homosexuals, the disabled or any rebellious factions...
So, no. It wouldn't be toxic masculinity. It would be the premisse for something far worst. Something much darker.
The problem is that gender are not a matter of point of view or morals. Those are scientific fact.
Therefore by denying genders, you would deny reality.
Not only that but you would also deny the reality and the existence of actual living people. In short this would be a pure and utter dehumanization of people that exist in the real world. Just like the Empire does to Droids and rebels, or like what the world gouvernment does to the Fishmen and the minks. Or like the Nazi did to the Jews, the homosexuals, the disabled or any rebellious factions...
So, no. It wouldn't be toxic masculinity. It would be the premisse for something far worst. Something much darker.
Men being in charge of the household while woman cooks and cleans and other shit is so medieval
Homes and Familys were like that because it was necessary for survival cause of lack of technology and goods. We live in a world where isn't anymore like that. We have tech and goods that enable our lives to be different of that of humans 500 years ago
Why should a woman stay home and only take care of kids, cook and clean?
My mom and dad worked 8 hours a day and still put 3 good kids through school and college, and all 3 of us have their own good jobs, own places to live and so on
Women should go to work and women should strive to better than yesterday but like men should also dedicate enough time for parenting.
Having a submissive woman IMO is just because the man in question is incapable of dealing with world problems
Men being in charge of the household while woman cooks and cleans and other shit is so medieval
Homes and Familys were like that because it was necessary for survival cause of lack of technology and goods. We live in a world where isn't anymore like that. We have tech and goods that enable our lives to be different of that of humans 500 years ago
No, it's not. It's still in practice in a lot of places and a lot of women, on their own, choose to stay at home because they prefer it. There's nothing medieval about you wanting to stay at your home. The only medieval thing is forcing people to stay at home without giving them a choice—the same goes for people being forced to work too.
Homes and Familys were like that because it was necessary for survival cause of lack of technology and goods. We live in a world where isn't anymore like that. We have tech and goods that enable our lives to be different of that of humans 500 years ago
Lol, let's not demonize the stay-at-home guys to promote the working class. Sure, it's not necessary for one of the parents to stay at home now, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be doing it. There is no technology that can replace a mother's presence in a household. We just make compromises—like, say, hiring a nanny—so that we get to do other things. Taking care of your family is every bit as important as working a job or having a career.
Why should a woman stay home and only take care of kids, cook and clean?
My mom and dad worked 8 hours a day and still put 3 good kids through school and college, and all 3 of us have their own good jobs, own places to live and so on
Women should go to work and women should strive to better than yesterday but like men should also dedicate enough time for parenting.
Regardless of gender, it's our responsibility as parents to cook, clean, provide, and take care of the kids. When the father takes care of one set of responsibilities, the mother should take care of the rest of the responsibilities—that's how we functioned for the most part of history. You don't get to call yourself a father/mother or a partner when you're not fulfilling your side of the bargain while the other party is doing theirs. Of course, this goes both ways i.e., if the mother is the provider then the father should take care of the household, or if both work, then they should share household responsibilities too.
Generally speaking, men are the primary providers in a lot of households, so it's the mother's job to take care of the household issues. You're cleaning your own house, taking care of your own kids, and cooking for your own family. It's a wonderful thing that you get to be there for your family. I don't understand, for the life of me, why even educated people try to paint doing things for their own family in a negative way.
Lol, let's not demonize the stay-at-home guys to promote the working class. Sure, it's not necessary for one of the parents to stay at home now, but that doesn't they shouldn't be doing it. There is no technology that can replace a mother's presence in a household. We just make compromises—like, say, hiring a nanny—so that we get to do other things. Taking care of your family is every bit as important as working a job or having a career.
I hope there will be more stay-at-home dads in the future. I have a relatively easy job. It's stressful but it's not that hard in the grand scheme of things. I've been working from home since Covid, and I do all kinds of house chores and take care of my two nieces: a 6-year-old and a 2.5-year-old—we live in a joint family. Besides, sleeping and school, they spend most of the day with me.
Kids can be irrational and annoying at times but there's not a single day where I felt like doing house chores and raising kids is harder than my job. I legit enjoy cleaning house. And not a single day at work made me feel as overjoyed or fulfilled as I'd feel when teaching things to the kids or spending time talking to my mom.
The idea of denouncing basic evolutionary traits of men and women with regards to their responsibilities in a nuclear families is concerning to say the least and pertains ignorance
The West by far is factually a failing society due to the very same reason
Like Roger rightly said, coercion and domination is different from understanding and adapting to natural dispositions , conflating the 2 is the most liberal thing ever.
No, it's not. It's still in practice in a lot of places and a lot of women, on their own, choose to stay at home because they prefer it. There's nothing medieval about you wanting to stay at your home. The only medieval thing is forcing people to stay at home without giving them a choice—the same goes for people being forced to work too.
Lol, let's not demonize the stay-at-home guys to promote the working class. Sure, it's not necessary for one of the parents to stay at home now, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be doing it. There is no technology that can replace a mother's presence in a household. We just make compromises—like, say, hiring a nanny—so that we get to do other things. Taking care of your family is every bit as important as working a job or having a career.
And I said so, every parent should get the balance right. Income is what drives family forward in all aspects of life.
If you have a father working 40+ hours a week while mom sits at home, that father is slowly killing himself over stress just to provide enough for his family. Likewise the father spends way less time home and it can lead to being estranged to his kids. Kids will grow up with lack of father figure which is never ever good
But if the mother also worked 40 hours a week she would substantially lessen the burden of the father both health and family wise. Fathers would be healthier while spending more time with their kids, raising them alongside the mother.
And let's be real for a second, stay at home parent is one of the easiest jobs one can have. Would you rather sit in the house with the kid or do roofing on summer?
Generally speaking, men are the primary providers in a lot of households, so it's the mother's job to take care of the household issues. You're cleaning your own house, taking care of your own kids, and cooking for your own family. It's a wonderful thing that you get to be there for your family. I don't understand, for the life of me, why even educated people try to paint doing things for their own family in a negative way.
And i said above. Certain conditions are destructive for men
Why do you think men in this day and age are overworked to the brink of depression?
Because of the fact people put this burden on men that they need to provide on their own while the world they live is far more complex that the one where that mindset worked
quote an academic study that substantiates your claim that women are forced into such responsibilities and they generally don't like being a Housewife and prefer being employed. If i got it correct that is.
quote an academic study that substantiates your claim that women are forced into such responsibilities and they generally don't like being a Housewife and prefer being employed. If i got it correct that is.
I can quote you the fact I work at the place I constantly see the abuse of stay at home moms and i likewise live in the area of such things.
I come from a economically poor region by western standards. And because so a lot of families are more conservative and live by that way of life. Not because of choice but bcs of force/coercion.
Mom's barely have elementary school finished and were married of at the age of 16 onwards to birth kids to work in fields.
Problem is, taking care of the children is a job in itself. Not only that but taking care of the house is ALSO a job in itself.
So here we have TWO jobs that needs to be fullfiled and a conservative vision of the family that put women in charges of those two job. Mking them in the IMPOSSIBILITY to have a carrier.
And you are wondering why we want to end this system ?
Yes, thinking that letting women stay in house would be just a normal thing to do IS retrogade in the sence that it doesn't take into account the mental workload that women have to face everyday while negating completely the potential of women as something other than housewife.
So of course, it's okay for women to say "I want to stay at home", but this choice is still going against her interest.
I really don't know how from my conversation you got that I would join any of Tate's stuff.
I literally been saying his stuff is a big con, I only suggested people who can not get laid and can not make money follow his shit and join his courses out of desperation.
I have always said the Pick Up Artist stuff is fucking cringe, just go and have a God damn conversation with a girl, its not that hard lmao
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