Fanclub Temple of The Grandmaster Zoro

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

Welcome back buddy you were missed ~~~

I needed time to adjust myself my friend because i found myself being tired also there is Ramadan but now i recuperated my energy i'm now ready for the clown trio 😎

 

[Cinera]

Everyone is born with coa and coc, however, not everyone is born with coc.

Everyone is born with haki. Haki itself is a kind of spiritual/mental energy. Colour of Armaments, Colour of Observation and Colour of the Supreme King are different applications of haki.

The first translation. Rayleigh says spirit is used to measure COC. In otherwords, those who have COC will all have spirit since spirit is what shows someone has COC.

It implies that all COC users have spirit, but not that all people in possession of spirit have COC. I think everyone has spirit, and COC is merely a reflection of the user's spiritual energy.

The second translation. Rayleigh says COC is the manifestation of the user's spirit. If you go by this translation, COC is spirit. Only COC users will be able to manifest their spirirts. Non COC users have spirit but can't manifest their spirirts

Not really. Suppose there were multiple applications of spirit manifestation, COC would only be one of them. This translation doesn't rule that out. What it says is that all COC is spirit manifestation, but it doesn't say all spirit manifestation is COC.

Zoro creates asura using spirit. Therefore asura is coc.

This is an invalid syllogism due to the scenarios I mentioned above. You're committing a fundamental logical error here. We are told that COC is a subset of spirit manifestation, and you instead inferred that spirit manifestation is a subset of COC. They are not the same thing. All dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs. All applications of COC are instances of spirit manifestation, but this doesn't mean all instances of spirit manifestation are applications of COC.

 

[Cinera]

Didn t luffy used coc on monet and it didnt worked?

This would be quite the big deal if it indeed happened. I'll reread PH and check.

 

[Zowo]

This would be quite the big deal if it indeed happened. I'll reread PH and check.

I checked chapter 683 and doesnt look like coc but in the anime he used coc

 

[BossYimz]

Everyone is born with haki. Haki itself is a kind of spiritual/mental energy. Colour of Armaments, Colour of Observation and Colour of the Supreme King are different applications of haki.



It implies that all COC users have spirit, but not that all people in possession of spirit have COC. I think everyone has spirit, and COC is merely a reflection of the user's spiritual energy.




Not really. Suppose there were multiple applications of spirit manifestation, COC would only be one of them. This translation doesn't rule that out. What it says is that all COC is spirit manifestation, but it doesn't say all spirit manifestation is COC.




This is an invalid syllogism due to the scenarios I mentioned above. You're committing a fundamental logical error here. We are told that COC is a subset of spirit manifestation, and you instead inferred that spirit manifestation is a subset of COC. They are not the same thing. All dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs. All applications of COC are instances of spirit manifestation, but this doesn't mean all instances of spirit manifestation are applications of COC.

However, based on the second translation the article "the" was used instead of "a"
If "a" was used, then there would be room for multiple types of manifestation of spirit.
With article "the" being used, it shows there is only 1 thing that can manifest spirit which is coc

Let us just wait for the viz/raw panels. It will be able to clear up the confusion. At the moment we would be debating only to find out we are using completely wrong translations.

 

[Cinera]

However, based on the second translation the article "the" was used instead of "a"
If "a" was used, then there would be room for multiple types of manifestation of spirit.
With article "the" being used, it shows there is only 1 thing that can manifest spirit which is coc

Let us just wait for the viz/raw panels. It will be able to clear up the confusion. At the moment we would be debating only to find out we are using completely wrong translations.

I can check the Viz translations (they are freely available online), @Den_Den_Mushi could help us with the translations of the raws if anyone has access to them.

 

[Cinera]

However, based on the second translation the article "the" was used instead of "a"

Nah, this is just linguistic confusion. "The" was applied to "user" not to "spirit manifestation". "It is the user's very spirit made manifest...!!". The user, the person currently applying the Colour of the Sovereign King, is what is being referred to.

 

[BossYimz]

I can check the Viz translations (they are freely available online), @Den_Den_Mushi could help us with the translations of the raws if anyone has access to them.

Oh ok nice.

 

[Finalbeta]

 

[Cinera]

Crazy Scenario

Zoro defeats a flying six-member while protecting a strange person who was on the outskirts of Onigashima or he defeats this strange person. (This person turns out to be Yamato). But he doesn't tell Zoro that he's the son of Kaidou. Yamato finds out from him that they plan on defeating Kaidou and Orochi. Yamato hates his father so he joins Zoro and guides him to the banquet(Zoro can't get there on his own lol). Yamato has taken a liking to Zoro and his strange swordsmanship.

Later on, Zoro and Yamato are caught by Kaidou and His Alliance at the banquet. Yamato reveals his identity to the drunken Kaidou and tells him to spare Zoro's life. Of course, Kaidou would say no. Orochi recalls that Zoro even tried to kill him. But Yamato also overheard that the person who found him would have the chance to take on one of the Allstars. After a bit of grilling by Yamato, Kaidou agrees that a promise is a promise. Not to mention, he recognizes the sword of Oden that Zoro has with him which has piqued his interest.

Kaidou asks Zoro which all-star he will take on. Zoro sees King's sword and smiles, "Him".

The crowd begins to laugh. Zoro's bounty is brought up, "320 Million Berries" and King's Bounty is finally revealed to be "1.65 Billion Berries." King is said to be Kaidou's strongest subordinate along with a list of other feats that overshadows Zoro by miles. Orochi says, "An execution to commence the celebration! Fufufufufu!" The crowd erupts into even more laughter as Zoro places a sword in his mouth. "Three Sword Style!? AHAHAHAHAHA. Is this a circus act?"

Luffy is in the crowd amongst the beast pirates looking on with a serious expression. Ussop asks Luffy if they should help Zoro but Luffy only smiles and says, "He promised he'd never lose to a swordsman until he defeated that guy".

Kaidou and his forces, Big Mom, her commanders, and Orochi's forces look on as King and Zoro take the center stage. The samurai duel will commence soon!

Welcome to the Holy Temple. I love how you think.

 

[Rivaille]

What Mihawk used on Luffy, Zoro used on Monet and Cracker used on the homies will be present has advanced CoC in Elbaf. Luffy did not recognize it because he only know the basic of CoC usage for now.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

 

[Finalbeta]

 

[Cinera]

What Mihawk used on Luffy, Zoro used on Monet and Cracker used on the homies will be present has advanced CoC in Elbaf. Luffy did not recognize it because he only know the basic of CoC usage for now.

Cracker (but not Kata) having advanced COC makes no sense. Cracker having COC at all doesn't fit.

 

[Rivaille]

Cracker (but not Kata) having advanced COC makes no sense. Cracker having COC at all doesn't fit.

I do not see why.
Oda is retconing everything into haki so I will not be surprised if this turned out to be haki too.

 

[Cinera]

I do not see why.
Oda is retconing everything into haki so I will not be surprised if this turned out to be haki too.

Cracker doesn't fit the template for COC. I can see Mihawk and Zoro having COC, but not really Cracker. Cracker having COC undermines everything COC has been portrayed to be.

 

[Rivaille]

Cracker doesn't fit the template for COC. I can see Mihawk and Zoro having COC, but not really Cracker. Cracker having COC undermines everything COC has been portrayed to be.

The template for CoC is Oda’s whim.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

 

[style]

This is Zoro-Urashima meeting in the anime:

-Zoro insults Urashima and ask him to step aside

Spoiler

-Urashima responds to Zoro in a rude way

Spoiler

-Zoro glances at him menacingly

Spoiler

-Urashima is intimidated by Zoro and goes away

Spoiler

Actually this is canon material. This is something that happens in the manga too, it's was jus offpaneled:

Why did Oda decide to off panel this meeting and yet put this panel suggesting that Zoro has a weird aura only 2/3 chapters later?

This is really suspicious, isn't it?

My take is: Oda wants to keep the surprise effect for later when the arc is in its crucial stage and at the same time he wants to do some foreshadowing

 

[Natalija]

Why did Oda decide to off panel this meeting and yet put this panel suggesting that Zoro has a weird aura only 2/3 chapters later?

This is really suspicious, isn't it?

I don't know, a random guess would be he didn't have space for it or had more important things to draw. Since he mentioned it, I don't think he's trying trying to hide it. But who knows.

Is this also the Mihawk temple? About his next step; I wonder what is the reason for Mihawk's appearance at Roger's execution. He doesn't seem like a man who would go to an execution just for the sake of it. I think this is an important hint, he might have been connected in some way or with his potential ex crew.