We Have Severely Underestimated Kanki

[Owl Ki]

What do you think about Kanki vs YTW !?

If we are talking about them having their own armies (instead of them both being given a standard Qin Army of exact equal strength) then out of any opponent, Yotanwa would be by far the worst matchup for Kanki to face.

The reason for that is because Kanki's greatest strengths are either shared by YTW's forces or mitigated by them.

Kanki heavily relies on unorthodox tactics being used against orthodox opponents. Pity for him that the Mountain Army is exceedingly unorthodox itself.

Kanki's brutality won't work either. Best case scenario, the Mountain Tribals don't give a shit. Worst case scenario, it just pisses them off. Point is, it won't demoralise them since the Mountain Tribals themselves are absolutely batshit brutal. These are people who tear out the jugular of their opponents with their teeth. Kanki ain't scaring them.

Hell, he will need to be more concerned about his own men running away from the Mountain mad lads. Remember how Kanki's men ran away from Kochou's forces? How well would they have stood up against far more brutal opponents like the Quanrong in an equally dire situation? Lol.

Kanki relies a lot on mobility but the Mountain Army are just as mobile (if not more so) and are usually expert trackers to boot (e.g. the human bloodhounds that could sniff out a fucking trapdoor. Lol). The Mountain Army can also scatter just like Kanki's and reform somewhere else like they did against the Quanrong.

Mountain Tribals are also on average just way stronger than the average plains dweller in a fight. So he isn't beating them in a head on fight either, especially since Yotanwa has the better subordinates at hand.

I just don't see Kanki beating someone that shares his strengths and doesn't have any of the weaknesses that Kanki typically exploits in other armies.

See this thread for Yotanwa nuttiness. Lol.

Spoiler: Link

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...urnament-winners-r1-round-2.3196/#post-253947

 

[Blackbeard]

If we are talking about them having their own armies (instead of them both being given a standard Qin Army of exact equal strength) then out of any opponent, Yotanwa would be by far the worst matchup for Kanki to face.

The reason for that is because Kanki's greatest strengths are either shared by YTW's forces or mitigated by them.

Kanki heavily relies on unorthodox tactics being used against orthodox opponents. Pity for him that the Mountain Army is exceedingly unorthodox itself.

Kanki's brutality won't work either. Best case scenario, the Mountain Tribals don't give a shit. Worst case scenario, it just pisses them off. Point is, it won't demoralise them since the Mountain Tribals themselves are absolutely batshit brutal. These are people who tear out the jugular of their opponents with their teeth. Kanki ain't scaring them.

Hell, he will need to be more concerned about his own men running away from the Mountain mad lads. Remember how Kanki's men ran away from Kochou's forces? How well would they have stood up against far more brutal opponents like the Quanrong in an equally dire situation? Lol.

Kanki relies a lot on mobility but the Mountain Army are just as mobile (if not more so) and are usually expert trackers to boot (e.g. the human bloodhounds that could sniff out a fucking trapdoor. Lol). The Mountain Army can also scatter just like Kanki's and reform somewhere else like they did against the Quanrong.

Mountain Tribals are also on average just way stronger than the average plains dweller in a fight. So he isn't beating them in a head on fight either, especially since Yotanwa has the better subordinates at hand.

I just don't see Kanki beating someone that shares his strengths and doesn't have any of the weaknesses that Kanki typically exploits in other armies.

See this thread for Yotanwa nuttiness. Lol.

Spoiler: Link

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...urnament-winners-r1-round-2.3196/#post-253947

I like this deadlock between the 6 Great Generals, it adds more fun to analyzing battles compared with typical A>B>C logic, as most of the in-story Generals excel in different fields. There's no strongest (nor weakest), it depends on who you pit against who, plus whom benefits more from terrain advantage.

That's partly why i prefer Tou the most out of the 6GG, as explained by Gohoumei, he's a fairly experienced and all-round beast that could easily adapt to any changes during the battle.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

I like this deadlock between the 6 Great Generals, it adds more fun to analyzing battles compared with typical A>B>C logic, as most of the in-story Generals excel in different fields. There's no strongest (nor weakest), it depends on who you pit against who, plus whom benefits more from terrain advantage.

That's partly why i prefer Tou the most out of the 6GG, as explained by Gohoumei, he's a fairly experienced and all-round beast that could easily adapt to any changes during the battle.

This is how I see it:

Kanki definitely beats Ousen
Kanki probably loses to Yotanwa
Moubu and Tou could go either way

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Kan Ki is the weakest of the Six Great Generals.

Y'all are tripping.

In straight plains warfare? Probably. In other settings like mountains or forest though? Kanki would beat most of Qin 6.

 

[Owl Ki]

I like this deadlock between the 6 Great Generals, it adds more fun to analyzing battles compared with typical A>B>C logic, as most of the in-story Generals excel in different fields. There's no strongest (nor weakest), it depends on who you pit against who, plus whom benefits more from terrain advantage.

That's partly why i prefer Tou the most out of the 6GG, as explained by Gohoumei, he's a fairly experienced and all-round beast that could easily adapt to any changes during the battle.

Yeah, I would say that Kanki is the Qin Six General most affected by the terrain. He is definitely at his best when he has some kind of environmental feature to work with (e.g. forests, rivers etc). Put him out on the open plains and he just isn't going to be at his best.

Yotanwa and Ousen have both used environmental terrain to their advantage but are as equally adept at plains warfare. Tou will probably end up being much the same too.

We haven't seen Moubu do anything creative with the environment. He could be the opposite of Kanki where he works best out in the open.

The other big difference when comparing Generals is what armies they have to work with. Yotanwa gets a huge buff with her army of batshit crazy, mountain mad lads.

By comparison, if you gave everybody the exact same, bog standard Qin Army then Moubu would shine considering his nutty feat of transforming a hastily recruited, poorly equipped peasant militia into a force that devastated armies of well equipped, professional Zhao soldiers in the span of 2 days. Lol.

 

[Rumble]

In straight plains warfare? Probably. In other settings like mountains or forest though? Kanki would beat most of Qin 6.

Yo Tan Wa is the Lord of Death and the mountain realm is her dominion. The mountains have been home to her people for centuries. Kan Ki would face better odds challenging her in the open. Not only is YTW well suited to deal with Kan Ki, her army is the worst possible match up to his.

Tou is highly versatile and deeply experienced; I have no doubt his career has taken him to many different kinds of battlefields across many different campaigns. I see no reason to doubt Tou's adaptability to mountain warfare. As a military commander, Tou rivals Ou Sen as the worst matchup for Kan Ki in terms of temperament and psyche. He has a wealth and depth of experience rivaled by few and cannot be irritated or baited into folly. You have to be flat out better than Tou to beat Tou, and Kan Ki simply isn't that.

Ou Sen is adept at mountain fortification, which comes as no surprise give the discipline of his men. I assume he is quite comfortable with mountain warfare. It very much plays into his strengths. Like Kan Ki, Ou Sen values no one's life more than this own, and is extremely patient. Just a single battle in the mountains between these two could play out for months, or even years - ultimately, I have more confidence in Ou Sen's patience, the discipline of his men, his caution and defensive capabilities than Kan Ki's ability to manipulate him into blundering.

Mou Bu is probably the most susceptible to Kan Ki's tricks and schemes, and he probably is at least somewhat diminished on mountainous terrain. On balance, Kan Ki should win if he's able to take his time. That said, Mou Bu has also had a lengthy career, which I am sure has brought him to the mountains before. He shouldn't be completely out of his depth. Though, to be clear, if he won, I think the main reason would be that his full army - which we have yet to actually see - is as broken and overpowered as he is. Realistically, Kan Ki has Mou Bu where he wants him in the mountains, but if Mou Bu's only way is through him, there really isn't anything Kan Ki can do to stop him.

tldr; Kan Ki gets absolutely murked in the mountains by YTW, is the underdog against Tou and Ou Sen; he should beat Mou Bu, but we don't really have enough information to judge his army.

 

[Xione]

Nah this dude still the weakest for me bruhz. Everytime he's faced off against another major general it's been the weirdest W, either the opposing general losing IQ points or that boyo Shin carrying him to the finish line.

-> Against Keisha. Before Keisha could hit with a counter plan (that psychological shit wouldn't have worked on Keisha like it did on Kisui). He gets taken out by our MC's instinctual shit. So any counter plan to Kanki was 0. And of course Keisha who went 14 days against the Duke, got impatient against Kanki and acted uncharacter like.

-> Against Genpo, probably the dumbest Kill Hara has done so far of any top general. the Mf is meant to be on the same status as SHK/Karin/etc being able to become the CoM for any status. But gets taken out by a basic ass maneuver like soldiers dressed as enemy. Then of course, there's the situation of Genpo taking over half way, while Kanki's plan was already in place. Was it ballsy? Yes. Was it some high level strategy or sum shit? Nope.

-> Now this arc. Yea there's simply nothing Riboku can do in regards to knowing how strong Shin and Qin's young youth get and their boundaries. Like that shit just can't be predicted by anyone but Hara. Which is the only reason this arc made it to this extent. Now Riboku is getting effected by this psychological BS despite going through the Ganmon region, despite Zhao's 400k slaughter by the hands of Qin for which Riboku was alive. Despite somebody like Mangoku being part of the Zhao army before. This arc is just insane, probably why I have a hard time reading it after Shin escape the encirclement.


Idk, just not that impressive to me like the other generals. Just waiting on this cringy mf to be killed so Qin's more interesting generals can finally start getting their proper campaigns.

 

[Bepo]

Now Riboku is getting effected by this psychological BS despite going through the Ganmon region, despite Zhao's 400k slaughter by the hands of Qin for which Riboku was alive. Despite somebody like Mangoku being part of the Zhao army before. This arc is just insane, probably why I have a hard time reading it after Shin escape the encirclement.

Basically this, but this what happens when an antagonist overstays his welcome. Hara has to somehow write the story in a way were Kanki's performance against Riboku looks impressive which is why this is the first time someone managed to get this close to taking his head despite him having an insane numerical advantage.

 

[Xione]

Basically this, but this what happens when an antagonist overstays his welcome. Hara has to somehow write the story in a way were Kanki's performance against Riboku looks impressive which is why this is the first time someone managed to get this close to taking his head despite him having an insane numerical advantage.

I don't think it's about Riboku overstaying his welcome. Since the arc would've been perfect had Hara ended it on the big confrontation. With Kanki n co getting killed while HSU and Mouten escapes.

But this is more of a symptom of opposing Kanki. Since he's not a normal general, Hara has to do these gimmicks of the other general losing IQ points in order for his gimmick to work.

Keisha went against the Duke for 14 days & Then spent nearly the same amount of time just staring at the Qin forces while Riboku did his thing. This same Keisha loses his patience why? cause Kanki doesn't make a move... really?????? What is Keisha? A damn academy student?



After openly declaring to the Qin he can handle all their generals. And then seein Ousen at Shukai plains... We have Hara making panels like this

Like bruh what. The MF who studies fully the opposing general... now was looking down on Kanki by a good amount. 10/10 writing.

"I know his weakness" - RBK
"What's his weakness sir?" - Zhao soldier
"He doesn't know any normal tactics!!" - RBK
"But sir... he was a vice-general to Mougou, somebody who was about fundamentals of war" - Zhao soldier
"OK AND??? " - RBK
"So he wouldn't know about fundamentals of tactics while being under the fundamental god for decade, Sir?" - Zhao soldier
"OK AND YOUR POINT??" - RBK
"Jesus christ am I in the right manga? This can't be Riboku from Kingdom" - Zhao Soldier contemplating to himself.

 

[MarineHQ]

I don't think it's about Riboku overstaying his welcome. Since the arc would've been perfect had Hara ended it on the big confrontation. With Kanki n co getting killed while HSU and Mouten escapes.

But this is more of a symptom of opposing Kanki. Since he's not a normal general, Hara has to do these gimmicks of the other general losing IQ points in order for his gimmick to work.

Keisha went against the Duke for 14 days & Then spent nearly the same amount of time just staring at the Qin forces while Riboku did his thing. This same Keisha loses his patience why? cause Kanki doesn't make a move... really?????? What is Keisha? A damn academy student?



After openly declaring to the Qin he can handle all their generals. And then seein Ousen at Shukai plains... We have Hara making panels like this

Like bruh what. The MF who studies fully the opposing general... now was looking down on Kanki by a good amount. 10/10 writing.

I liked the way Kanki handled Keisha. Flipping the script and making him fall for a trap, it wasn't bad writing especially when you consider how big of a opportunity Kanki let slip away to provoke him but the way he caught Riboku is straight up ridiculous.

This is Riboku we're talking about. The guy that can plan for every possible outcome months before the campaign starts. Riboku had Kanki all figured out years before this battle, reiterates how important it is to take him down yet falls for his most generic ploy which is to raid the enemy commanders HQ ? And Riboku gets caught in that ?

Nah. I can't buy that. If anything Hara can save this if it turns out that Riboku intended to get caught to maybe cut Kanki's escape path but even still to get injured to this extent is not something that can be called a strategy.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Bump. Kanki really has solidified his name into legend since becoming one of the Qin 6, with his absurd defeat of Kochou and his very near checkmating of Riboku.

Plus that backstory was just U Tier (above S Tier)

 

[Xione]

I liked the way Kanki handled Keisha. Flipping the script and making him fall for a trap, it wasn't bad writing especially when you consider how big of a opportunity Kanki let slip away to provoke him but the way he caught Riboku is straight up ridiculous.

This is Riboku we're talking about. The guy that can plan for every possible outcome months before the campaign starts. Riboku had Kanki all figured out years before this battle, reiterates how important it is to take him down yet falls for his most generic ploy which is to raid the enemy commanders HQ ? And Riboku gets caught in that ?

Nah. I can't buy that. If anything Hara can save this if it turns out that Riboku intended to get caught to maybe cut Kanki's escape path but even still to get injured to this extent is not something that can be called a strategy.

The issue with the Keisha campaign wasn't related to Kanki, it's related to how Hara wrote Keisha. Who is Keisha going into the campaign?

-> Has years of experience being under Riboku's tutelage
-> Went up against the Duke without issues (though with a numbers advantage) for 14 days.
-> Then spends rest of the time staring at the Qin for pretty much 10+ more days.

This same Keisha who's been taught by Riboku and has that experience from the Coalition. Like a dumbass gets impatient after few days. That is literally it. The issue is Keisha is established as a general who is very much patient, rational, etc. And he loses his patience why? Because the opposing general doesn't do something he expects him to do, that is the most idiotic thing written so far for an opposing general when it comes to out of character.


Then we get to the high IQ Riboku... He viewed the war against Kanki & Keisha... and he claims he's figured out Kanki's weakness... hehehehe.

And what is that weakness? ... that the Mf who was under Mougou the man renowned for his fundamentals of war, for YEARS as his vice-general alongside Ousen... doesn't know normal tactics and strategies.

Spoiler

Do you understand how much of a low IQ idiot somebody has to be to come to the conclusion that Riboku did?

The most low IQ Keisha had ever been in the manga was against... Kanki
The flat out dumbest shit Riboku has ever said in the entire manga was against... Kanki

How does he take out the teacher of mighty Renpa? oh dressed as the enemy and sneak in hehehe top tier strategy babyy!!!!!
What's his impressive strategy at Coalition? oh dressed as the enemy and sneak in hehehe top tier strategy overload babyy!!!!
What's his impressive strategy that beats Kisui? Oh just threatening the slaughtering of Kisui's people top tier strategy overload baby!!!!

The only impressive thing he's done so far in the manga worthy of even being mentioned among the Qin 6 is the KoChou shit. And even when reading that I had 0 interest in Kanki, but the great writing Hara did for the Kochou and Zhao side in general during that war. And iirc, Shin still had a pretty big carry in that arc.


Literally any fucking big general out there if they lose their morals like Kanki and commits to being fine with break warfare rules would pawn Kanki. Almost everything except that Kochou arc regarding this mf is trash writing. It's insulting to warfare, it's insulting to kingdom.

 

[MUUGEN]

im sad this is going to be the end of kanki. but i love how he even planned for his defeat and set up measures to keep the ones he cares for the most safe while trusting shin.

 

[Rumble]

The cope never ends.

Kan Ki got BTFO’d this arc. Ou Sen warned him, and Kan Ki still pushed on even after losing the bulk of the Tai Gen reinforcements. For what? 130K dead troops in a day, the destruction of the Kan Ki Army and the death of Kan Ki himself.

 

[MUUGEN]

The cope never ends.

Kan Ki got BTFO’d this arc. Ou Sen warned him, and Kan Ki still pushed on even after losing the bulk of the Tai Gen reinforcements. For what? 130K dead troops in a day, the destruction of the Kan Ki Army and the death of Kan Ki himself.

lmfao - kanki has done more damage to riboku than any other general.

 

[Great General Kanki]

lmfao - kanki has done more damage to riboku than any other general.

That doesn't mean he wasn't outplayed and destroyed. Kanki played a damn final last hand but it was not enough. Qin have lost more men in this arc than in every other war combined. Plus a Q6 member, his two best fighters, their entire clans and one of his 3 highest ranked officers.

Riboku being thrown around a few times and having a bloody face, whilst extremely impressive, literally can not compare.

 

[MUUGEN]

That doesn't mean he wasn't outplayed and destroyed. Kanki played a damn final last hand but it was not enough. Qin have lost more men in this arc than in every other war combined. Plus a Q6 member, his two best fighters, their entire clans and one of his 3 highest ranked officers.

Riboku being thrown around a few times and having a bloody face, whilst extremely impressive, literally can not compare.

when or how was he outplayed when he was many steps ahead of riboku and even factored in his plans failing it was all a gamble and seizing an opportunity that no one else has had did he fail at the end yes but he heavily destroyed and played with riboku the entire time, he was only out numbered which is how he lost. from the start it was already a suicide mission and riboku hard committed to it. he was also not destroyed which is why he made himself a target to allow all the others to escape making himself the center of attention.

 

[Rumble]

lmfao - kanki has done more damage to riboku than any other general.

To Ri Boku personally? So what, the result is an overwhelming victory for Zhao and a crushing loss and colossal waste of life for Qin.

You’re essentially bragging about a paper cut while the other guy looks like he got beat up by a bus. Like, who gives a shit about that?

But, hey, he made Ri Boku bleed, guys, bleed! All it cost Kan Ki was everything, lol.

 

[MUUGEN]

To Ri Boku personally? So what, the result is an overwhelming victory for Zhao and a crushing loss and colossal waste of life for Qin.

You’re essentially bragging about a paper cut while the other guy looks like he beat up by a bus. Like, who gives a shit about that?

But, hey, he made Ri Boku bleed, guys, bleed! All it cost Kan Ki was everything, lol.

yawn.

there isnt a real point of going back n forth with someone who doesn't understand the reasoning behind why kanki made the decision to continue on with low numbers. i mean it was discussed i guess you just pick and choose what to remember.

we will reconvene when Kankis efforts here lead directly to Ou Sen & co defeating riboku.

kanki has defeated riboku and his armies multiple times over so much to the point that riboku was held in prison and up for death while riboku has this one win over him.

go reread the manga lil bro

 

[Rumble]

there isnt a real point of going back n forth with someone who doesn't understand the reasoning behind why kanki made the decision to continue on with low numbers.

Uh, Kan Ki's reasoning for attacking Ri Boku with low numbers isn't the subject, my guy. It's literally you who is missing the point. Since you seem to have trouble scrolling, this is the post you responded to:

The cope never ends.

Kan Ki got BTFO’d this arc. Ou Sen warned him, and Kan Ki still pushed on even after losing the bulk of the Tai Gen reinforcements. For what? 130K dead troops in a day, the destruction of the Kan Ki Army and the death of Kan Ki himself.

I understand his rationale for going after Ri Boku perfectly fine. His plan was to exploit the shock and chaos the death of Ri Boku would cause to escape the Zhao's encirclement. That's obvious, because it was literally stated as the goal of their mission before they departed from Gian. It's also irrelevant to my point that Kan Ki got BTFO'd - which, of course, he undeniably did.

So let's try to stay on topic.

i mean it was discussed i guess you just pick and choose what to remember.

As always, I welcome and challenge you to bring receipts to support your accusations.

we will reconvene when Kankis efforts here lead directly to Ou Sen & co defeating riboku.

lol, bearing in mind Ou Sen is already up 1-0 against Ri Boku (2-0 if you count overall campaign and Shukai separely), and in his own backyard no less, I look forward to whatever pretzel logic you put forth on this topic. I'm sure it'll be an entertaining read.

kanki has defeated riboku and his armies multiple times over so much to the point that riboku was held in prison and up for death while riboku has this one win over him.

I suppose that's a fascinating way to interpret the story.

In the real world, it's obvious to anyone with functions eyes and brain Ri Boku utterly outplayed and crushed Kan Ki. It's obvious, I don't see how you don't see it. For instance, how do you spin Kan Ki losing 130 out of 140K troops in a single day? The 55K Kan Ki Army got wiped out and rendered to just a couple hundred. Then Kan Ki spent most of his time on the run, only to end up dying in a Hail Mary ambush.

That impresses you? If you say so.