Powers & Abilities Haoshoku Haki: What are those qualities of a king?
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There are two very important points in my opinion. The first is inheritance. The other is all about how high your determination is. This determination can manifest in many different ways. To protect his family , to achieve his dream , to take revenge .
All of these can be dealt with individually. But when we look at the names of who have COC, of course, the family heritage thing comes to the fore. Ace , Yamato , Katakuri certainly do not have any kingly qualities. Oden is a samurai who left his country to see the outside world. From birth to death, he has no kingly ambitions. When we look at why katakuri has COC, it will not be difficult to find the answer. Because his opponent was Luffy. What about Ace? He hates his father. It doesn't have any purpose. When we look at how high the determination of these names is, this feature becomes common. Katakuri's determination to protect his family, Yamato's determination to be Oden, Oden's determination to explore the outside world, etc... But there is only one conclusion to be drawn if we go into details. Oda can give anybody based on the plot. This indicates that we may see many COC users in the future. In my opinion, basic COC is now something very ordinary in the series.
We can speak differently for the Advanced type of COC
All of these can be dealt with individually. But when we look at the names of who have COC, of course, the family heritage thing comes to the fore. Ace , Yamato , Katakuri certainly do not have any kingly qualities. Oden is a samurai who left his country to see the outside world. From birth to death, he has no kingly ambitions. When we look at why katakuri has COC, it will not be difficult to find the answer. Because his opponent was Luffy. What about Ace? He hates his father. It doesn't have any purpose. When we look at how high the determination of these names is, this feature becomes common. Katakuri's determination to protect his family, Yamato's determination to be Oden, Oden's determination to explore the outside world, etc... But there is only one conclusion to be drawn if we go into details. Oda can give anybody based on the plot. This indicates that we may see many COC users in the future. In my opinion, basic COC is now something very ordinary in the series.
We can speak differently for the Advanced type of COC
I expect Law to have CoC tbh. If he doesn't die (which seems likely since BB took Moria prisoner). Sanji too. CoC isn't as rare as some people want to believe it is. Not in the New World. I believe we were told that it's a 1 in a million ability. We don't know how populous the world of OP is, but Alabasta has a population of 10 million. That's 10 people with CoC. Fishman Island had a population of 5 million. That's 5 people with CoC. And most of those Conquerors would be gathering in the New World.
So as you refered to Rayleigh's Dialogue about Conqueror's Haki i feel as you omitted an important part where it says that CoC
can grow as the individual's personal growth.. And it ties to the point you made about being born with it due to family genes and their lineage..
It's not so much that the Lineage or Being Naturally born with.. But it's related to the Caliber of the Individual..
It says '' Lifestyle '', but i can tell you it's a poor translation.. What Luffy refers to there is the '' Caliber '' or the '' Worth '' of an Individual as a person.. That Usopp has Kuro beat when it comes to the Caliber of a Man and Pirate..
Being born with the right genes won't make you a de facto Conqueror but it will increase the likelyhood of having it based on the Caliber of your lineage.. An example of that is Koby, His Caliber as a person grew tremendously from interacting with Luffy and being inspired by him.. He's on the right track to grow his " Worth '', his " Character " as a human being to the level of a Conqueror.. I think that's how it works..
Caliber <=====> CoC
My second point is related to the ability to " Overwhelm " others, to have the Will of a Conqueror..
Zeff mentioned in Baratie that Luffy's weapon is like an unbreakable Spear and defined it as a '' Conviction, Faith or Belief '' to not fear Death..
Obviously this is another poor translation..
Zeff is basicly speaking about Conqueror Haki there.. I think to attain the Power to Overwhelm others, you need to first Overwhelm Death itself.. And it's what Zoro has shown early in the series.. To go beyond a state where it would normally Kill someone.. THat is when he was tied Starving for 9 days at the Marine Base.. Well he sort of cheated by getting food from the little girl, though he demonstrated the Spirit to Overwhelm Death there..
Or Oden being boiled alive in a pot for an Hour.. That would be CoC and the power to Overcome Death for a While..
In the Fact, the way Zoro unlocked CoC is precisely because he chose at that time to Overwhelm Death itself.. Declaring that if he kept unleashing this much Haki it would Kill Him and realise that Yes, it's How it should be to achieve Enma to Stabilize he had to Overwhelm Death.. And go beyond the Realm of living things..
Chapter's 1036 Title is directly related to this and how Zoro got CoC, that Bushido and Death are interconnected..
The translation says " Bushido is the Way of Death ".. Again not quite the right translation but it gets the message across..
Cause the Japanese line allude to, the concept of Bushido being Death and Finding it?.. It's like a phylosophical sentence which
i understand why it would be hard to translate that to a hundred percent accuracy..
I think i had another point.. But these were my 2 Big Ideas..
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This is a good point. Most characters do have these qualities. The question is to what extent they exhibit them. For example, Sanji's willpower is not weak, but is it exceptional compared to other individuals of his era? Surely not when he says "Abandon your ambition"
Thats why I wrote "exceptional willpower"
This is not a good argument. Those millions of pirates, who wanted to be pirate kings but remained fodder, never took their ambition seriously. They didnt commit to their ambition, otherwise, they wouldn't remain fodder. We are talking about people who take their ambitions to be a "king" seriously and are willing to put in exceptional efforts.
The chance of 1 out of 60 is much better than 1 out of a million
Kaido-Yamato, Roger-Ace, Garp-Dragon-Luffy have 100% pass down rate
This is true. Oda is probably keeping some cards in his hand to give someone like Coby the CoC, who wont meet these criteria lol
I dont buy "Whitebeard just wanted a family". Dude could just marry Bakkin and spawn junior beards every year if he wanted to only have a family. Who in their right mind would create a yonko crew just to have a family?
The same doesnt go for Ace or Kuri. At no point in the manga, we got to know Ace's ambition. Same goes for Kuri.
Who has all the qualities and dont have it? Give us some example
Luffy says "potential" in that Kuro panel. Yes, it was a mistranslation =>
https://web.archive.org/web/2008062...ascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/op-v05c038.txt
Your first point didnt make much sense. The second one of "overwhelming death" sounds interesting, I will give you that.
What doesnt make sense?
Thats why I wrote "exceptional willpower"
This is not a good argument. Those millions of pirates, who wanted to be pirate kings but remained fodder, never took their ambition seriously. They didnt commit to their ambition, otherwise, they wouldn't remain fodder. We are talking about people who take their ambitions to be a "king" seriously and are willing to put in exceptional efforts.
The chance of 1 out of 60 is much better than 1 out of a million
Kaido-Yamato, Roger-Ace, Garp-Dragon-Luffy have 100% pass down rate
This is true. Oda is probably keeping some cards in his hand to give someone like Coby the CoC, who wont meet these criteria lol
I dont buy "Whitebeard just wanted a family". Dude could just marry Bakkin and spawn junior beards every year if he wanted to only have a family. Who in their right mind would create a yonko crew just to have a family?
The same doesnt go for Ace or Kuri. At no point in the manga, we got to know Ace's ambition. Same goes for Kuri.
Who has all the qualities and dont have it? Give us some example
So as you refered to Rayleigh's Dialogue about Conqueror's Haki i feel as you omitted an important part where it says that CoC
can grow as the individual's personal growth.. And it ties to the point you made about being born with it due to family genes and their lineage..
It's not so much that the Lineage or Being Naturally born with.. But it's related to the Caliber of the Individual..
It says '' Lifestyle '', but i can tell you it's a poor translation.. What Luffy refers to there is the '' Caliber '' or the '' Worth '' of an Individual as a person.. That Usopp has Kuro beat when it comes to the Caliber of a Man and Pirate..
Being born with the right genes won't make you a de facto Conqueror but it will increase the likelyhood of having it based on the Caliber of your lineage.. An example of that is Koby, His Caliber as a person grew tremendously from interacting with Luffy and being inspired by him.. He's on the right track to grow his " Worth '', his " Character " as a human being to the level of a Conqueror.. I think that's how it works..
Caliber <=====> CoC
My second point is related to the ability to " Overwhelm " others, to have the Will of a Conqueror..
Zeff mentioned in Baratie that Luffy's weapon is like an unbreakable Spear and defined it as a '' Conviction, Faith or Belief '' to not fear Death..
Obviously this is another poor translation..
Zeff is basicly speaking about Conqueror Haki there.. I think to attain the Power to Overwhelm others, you need to first Overwhelm Death itself.. And it's what Zoro has shown early in the series.. To go beyond a state where it would normally Kill someone.. THat is when he was tied Starving for 9 days at the Marine Base.. Well he sort of cheated by getting food from the little girl, though he demonstrated the Spirit to Overwhelm Death there..
Or Oden being boiled alive in a pot for an Hour.. That would be CoC and the power to Overcome Death for a While..
In the Fact, the way Zoro unlocked CoC is precisely because he chose at that time to Overwhelm Death itself.. Declaring that if he kept unleashing this much Haki it would Kill Him and realise that Yes, it's How it should be to achieve Enma to Stabilize he had to Overwhelm Death.. And go beyond the Realm of living things..
Chapter's 1036 Title is directly related to this and how Zoro got CoC, that Bushido and Death are interconnected..
The translation says " Bushido is the Way of Death ".. Again not quite the right translation but it gets the message across..
Cause the Japanese line allude to, the concept of Bushido being Death and Finding it?.. It's like a phylosophical sentence which
i understand why it would be hard to translate that to a hundred percent accuracy..
I think i had another point.. But these were my 2 Big Ideas..
can grow as the individual's personal growth.. And it ties to the point you made about being born with it due to family genes and their lineage..
It's not so much that the Lineage or Being Naturally born with.. But it's related to the Caliber of the Individual..
It says '' Lifestyle '', but i can tell you it's a poor translation.. What Luffy refers to there is the '' Caliber '' or the '' Worth '' of an Individual as a person.. That Usopp has Kuro beat when it comes to the Caliber of a Man and Pirate..
Being born with the right genes won't make you a de facto Conqueror but it will increase the likelyhood of having it based on the Caliber of your lineage.. An example of that is Koby, His Caliber as a person grew tremendously from interacting with Luffy and being inspired by him.. He's on the right track to grow his " Worth '', his " Character " as a human being to the level of a Conqueror.. I think that's how it works..
Caliber <=====> CoC
My second point is related to the ability to " Overwhelm " others, to have the Will of a Conqueror..
Zeff mentioned in Baratie that Luffy's weapon is like an unbreakable Spear and defined it as a '' Conviction, Faith or Belief '' to not fear Death..
Obviously this is another poor translation..
Zeff is basicly speaking about Conqueror Haki there.. I think to attain the Power to Overwhelm others, you need to first Overwhelm Death itself.. And it's what Zoro has shown early in the series.. To go beyond a state where it would normally Kill someone.. THat is when he was tied Starving for 9 days at the Marine Base.. Well he sort of cheated by getting food from the little girl, though he demonstrated the Spirit to Overwhelm Death there..
Or Oden being boiled alive in a pot for an Hour.. That would be CoC and the power to Overcome Death for a While..
In the Fact, the way Zoro unlocked CoC is precisely because he chose at that time to Overwhelm Death itself.. Declaring that if he kept unleashing this much Haki it would Kill Him and realise that Yes, it's How it should be to achieve Enma to Stabilize he had to Overwhelm Death.. And go beyond the Realm of living things..
Chapter's 1036 Title is directly related to this and how Zoro got CoC, that Bushido and Death are interconnected..
The translation says " Bushido is the Way of Death ".. Again not quite the right translation but it gets the message across..
Cause the Japanese line allude to, the concept of Bushido being Death and Finding it?.. It's like a phylosophical sentence which
i understand why it would be hard to translate that to a hundred percent accuracy..
I think i had another point.. But these were my 2 Big Ideas..
https://web.archive.org/web/2008062...ascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/op-v05c038.txt
Your first point didnt make much sense. The second one of "overwhelming death" sounds interesting, I will give you that.
What doesnt make sense?
That word is not quite right either and very vague.. It hundred percent refers to what Rayleigh said about
an Individual's personal growth and the Caliber of person as in a vessel, bodily and spirituality.. Someone being grander than normal.. Which Luffy looks up to like Shanks.. Becoming that kind of Caliber as a PIrate is directly connected to CoC..
Luffy said Shanks was.. When Buggy mocked him in Orange Town... He was speaking of Shanks Caliber as a Pirate and a Man..
偉大★【いだいidai】
adjectival noun:
I guess i won't change your mind on that though.. If it's " potential " as a human's character growth.. The word in Japanese is
" Utsuwa " look it up yourself..
Luffy is telling to Kuro that Usopp is stronger than Him as a Pirate.. But How, we saw Usopp being weak as hell..
Luffy is refering to Usopp's Spirit, Usopp has Kuro beat when it comes to resolve, determination, willpower and aspiration..
an Individual's personal growth and the Caliber of person as in a vessel, bodily and spirituality.. Someone being grander than normal.. Which Luffy looks up to like Shanks.. Becoming that kind of Caliber as a PIrate is directly connected to CoC..
Luffy said Shanks was.. When Buggy mocked him in Orange Town... He was speaking of Shanks Caliber as a Pirate and a Man..
偉大★【いだいidai】
adjectival noun:
- great; grand; magnificent; outstanding; mighty
I guess i won't change your mind on that though.. If it's " potential " as a human's character growth.. The word in Japanese is
" Utsuwa " look it up yourself..
Luffy is telling to Kuro that Usopp is stronger than Him as a Pirate.. But How, we saw Usopp being weak as hell..
Luffy is refering to Usopp's Spirit, Usopp has Kuro beat when it comes to resolve, determination, willpower and aspiration..
Having an unbreakable to will to achieve a goal and an individual who doesn't bow to anyone aka a King.
Yamato - despite how foolish it may seem, she wanted to be like Oden no matter how many times Kaido beat her
Zoro - despite not being the most talented swordsman, he puts in the time and effort to be the best
There are many more examples...
Yamato - despite how foolish it may seem, she wanted to be like Oden no matter how many times Kaido beat her
Zoro - despite not being the most talented swordsman, he puts in the time and effort to be the best
There are many more examples...
Mihawk has 4 of these checkboxes (King of Swordsman, WillPower & Ambition to become the Strongest & Fame) ticked. You can even argue him as a Leader since Crocodile & Doflamingo both act like theyre his hypemen/fanboys when he's around.
Lineage Factor aside, can't wait for Mihawk to flex a bit.... I'd say that round of L collection/tears and cope is due
Lineage Factor aside, can't wait for Mihawk to flex a bit.... I'd say that round of L collection/tears and cope is due
Mihawk has 4 of these checkboxes (King of Swordsman, WillPower & Ambition to become the Strongest & Fame) ticked. You can even argue him as a Leader since Crocodile & Doflamingo both act like theyre his hypemen/fanboys when he's around.
Lineage Factor aside, can't wait for Mihawk to flex a bit.... I'd say that round of L collection/tears and cope is due
Lineage Factor aside, can't wait for Mihawk to flex a bit.... I'd say that round of L collection/tears and cope is due
I disagree
Either way I think the whole "exceptional" willpower thing is weird
Moria has balls of steel (went directly to a Yonkos front door and attacked them to get his crewmate back) even out of his prime but doesn't have CoC
Crocodile has bucked the big dogs of the New World since day 1 without fear but doesn't have CoC
Moria said it himself
To be a top pirate you have to be willing to throw your life away at any moment
There are a number of strong pirates that show the same conviction as Luffy and Zoro at the start of their journey but don't have CoC
It's just weird
Is this really true though?
Take Krieg for example
He went to the Grand Line and encountered Mihawk of all people and that STILL didn't stop him from wanting to go back
Not only that, when he met Mihawk again he attacked him
He had the balls to attack the World's Strongest Swordsman after the loss he took. That sounds like exceptional effort/willpower to me
Why doesn't he have CoC?
Agreed.
If you're the child of a CoC user you have a MUCH higher chance of being born with it
I think this is where the "born with it" thing will come into play
If you're born with conquerors but it has to be "triggered" doesn't this mean there's a number of CoC users that haven't tapped into their potential?
Koby could be one of them
The awakening probably comes when you've truly become a "conqueror" if that makes sense
That's probably why Koby will unlock it now even though he didn't seem like one before
Rough childhood that drove him to become a pirate
I kinda agree with you here but we're told time and time again that all he really wanted was a family
Roger literally offered to make him the next Pirate King and he turned him down
He really doesn't care
We do though
Katakuri wants to protect his family
Ace wanted to know the answer to the question that had been haunting him since he was young
"The thing I really wanted.. wasn't fame or anything... what I really wanted... was to know.. that it was okay for me to be born."
Ace himself admitted that he never truly cared about becoming famous or anything like that
All he wanted was the answer to a question
Very VERY respectable but I don't know if I'd call that a kingly ambition
Law has literally every quality except one
He's a D. with exceptional willpower, nigh unmatched combat skills, a crew that will die for him, a 3 billion beri bounty, and he's a supernova
5 of the 6 listed qualities (which is more than most people that actually have it) and he still doesn't have conquerors
Either way I think the whole "exceptional" willpower thing is weird
Moria has balls of steel (went directly to a Yonkos front door and attacked them to get his crewmate back) even out of his prime but doesn't have CoC
Crocodile has bucked the big dogs of the New World since day 1 without fear but doesn't have CoC
Moria said it himself
To be a top pirate you have to be willing to throw your life away at any moment
There are a number of strong pirates that show the same conviction as Luffy and Zoro at the start of their journey but don't have CoC
It's just weird
Is this really true though?
Take Krieg for example
He went to the Grand Line and encountered Mihawk of all people and that STILL didn't stop him from wanting to go back
Not only that, when he met Mihawk again he attacked him
He had the balls to attack the World's Strongest Swordsman after the loss he took. That sounds like exceptional effort/willpower to me
Why doesn't he have CoC?
Agreed.
If you're the child of a CoC user you have a MUCH higher chance of being born with it
I think this is where the "born with it" thing will come into play
If you're born with conquerors but it has to be "triggered" doesn't this mean there's a number of CoC users that haven't tapped into their potential?
Koby could be one of them
The awakening probably comes when you've truly become a "conqueror" if that makes sense
That's probably why Koby will unlock it now even though he didn't seem like one before
Rough childhood that drove him to become a pirate
I kinda agree with you here but we're told time and time again that all he really wanted was a family
Roger literally offered to make him the next Pirate King and he turned him down
He really doesn't care
We do though
Katakuri wants to protect his family
Ace wanted to know the answer to the question that had been haunting him since he was young
"The thing I really wanted.. wasn't fame or anything... what I really wanted... was to know.. that it was okay for me to be born."
Ace himself admitted that he never truly cared about becoming famous or anything like that
All he wanted was the answer to a question
Very VERY respectable but I don't know if I'd call that a kingly ambition
Law has literally every quality except one
He's a D. with exceptional willpower, nigh unmatched combat skills, a crew that will die for him, a 3 billion beri bounty, and he's a supernova
5 of the 6 listed qualities (which is more than most people that actually have it) and he still doesn't have conquerors
Krieg has the potential to grow to the Caliber of a Conqueror for sure.. Just like Zoro who had to Grow his character..
Krieg is like Zoro in that regard.. Pretty sure If he comes back in the Story he will have CoC.. The guy was still wanting
to go even unconcious, that's the qualities of a King right there in the same vain than Luffy using CoC while unconcious when he got One shot by Kaido..
Definitely Krieg is looked down on.. He was the toughest Fight in East Blue for Luffy..
CoC is linked to Individual's growth, the Caliber of a person.. You can strenghten your CoC as you raise to new height the higher your mental fortitude and values you get.. And it's the same from the ground up you can achieve CoC by Growing your own Worth.. That's why Shanks inspired Luffy, he's someone Grandiose, a Human Being greater Life?..
Krieg is like Zoro in that regard.. Pretty sure If he comes back in the Story he will have CoC.. The guy was still wanting
to go even unconcious, that's the qualities of a King right there in the same vain than Luffy using CoC while unconcious when he got One shot by Kaido..
Definitely Krieg is looked down on.. He was the toughest Fight in East Blue for Luffy..
CoC is linked to Individual's growth, the Caliber of a person.. You can strenghten your CoC as you raise to new height the higher your mental fortitude and values you get.. And it's the same from the ground up you can achieve CoC by Growing your own Worth.. That's why Shanks inspired Luffy, he's someone Grandiose, a Human Being greater Life?..
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You are giving examples of courage. Willpower is not the same thing. Its the opposite of giving up. Its the ability to control and direct one's actions to pursue a specific goal.
You are wrong, there are not a number of pirates with Luffy Zoro's conviction, they are built differently
lmfao, of all the characters you could have chosen, you picked the example of Kreig?!! Krieg is a delusional fool who believes he is the strongest man in the world. How could he aspire to be a "king" when he already believes he is already strongest?
Even disregarding his delusions, he is a 44 year old weakling with a 17 million bounty. If he had taken his pirate king ambitions seriously, he would work harder and achieved more at this age of his life.
As I said, I dont buy that. There has to be some other reason for Whitebeard to become a yonko. Family cant be a reason for that.
I wont call that an ambition tbh. Ace at one point mentioned he wants to make Whitebeard the pirate king. On the other hand, Whitebeard was raising Ace to be the future pirate king. Ace is just built differently, he had the finest genes in the verse.
He doesnt have a proper goal. See how it makes a difference from the dialogues here =>
You are wrong, there are not a number of pirates with Luffy Zoro's conviction, they are built differently
lmfao, of all the characters you could have chosen, you picked the example of Kreig?!! Krieg is a delusional fool who believes he is the strongest man in the world. How could he aspire to be a "king" when he already believes he is already strongest?
Even disregarding his delusions, he is a 44 year old weakling with a 17 million bounty. If he had taken his pirate king ambitions seriously, he would work harder and achieved more at this age of his life.
As I said, I dont buy that. There has to be some other reason for Whitebeard to become a yonko. Family cant be a reason for that.
I wont call that an ambition tbh. Ace at one point mentioned he wants to make Whitebeard the pirate king. On the other hand, Whitebeard was raising Ace to be the future pirate king. Ace is just built differently, he had the finest genes in the verse.
He doesnt have a proper goal. See how it makes a difference from the dialogues here =>