Chapter Discussion Zoro vs King and Zoro vs Enma needed separate revaluations
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Zoro's own words:Why bother block my attacks (flame on) I thought they did nothing to you( examples: shi shi son son king was not fazed,jackpot king blew himself up and not fazed all with flame on)
Unless you're SCARED of what i can do, how the heck can you say there is no need to "scare" someone out of flame on mode when thats exactly what zoro did
its even in bold text highlighted by oda for emphasis (SCARED) with king showing a scared face in the same panel when zoro calls him out then he flies backwards and hops off the island as fast as he can to attack from range but zoro closes the distance and beats him
Unless you're SCARED of what i can do, how the heck can you say there is no need to "scare" someone out of flame on mode when thats exactly what zoro did
its even in bold text highlighted by oda for emphasis (SCARED) with king showing a scared face in the same panel when zoro calls him out then he flies backwards and hops off the island as fast as he can to attack from range but zoro closes the distance and beats him
The Seraphim interaction is absolutely the final nail on the coffin - Zoro literally calls them "Invicinble" when their flames are on and asks Luffy, another CoC User, to attack when their flames go off. Not to use CoC against them.
Ultimately, that's what makes the most sense. Since Zoro NEVER cut King with his flames on too.
How many times do you want me to repeat the same thing I’ve been saying
Zoro is calling him out for putting his flame on to block his attacks. Lunarians can block attacks with their flame. Zoro calling him out for being afraid of what he could do if he didn’t have it on. King trying to prove him wrong went out of his defensive mode and tried to defeat zoro by going on the offensive by turning it off
And again king was avoiding attacks even pre conquerors. And again zoro already figured out how to fight him and knew attacking flame on was useless. So even if king tried to do the same attack zoro wouldn’t have made the same mistake by attacking
Because he obviously was scared of what zoro could do when he was out of flame so he kept his distance
Zoro is calling him out for putting his flame on to block his attacks. Lunarians can block attacks with their flame. Zoro calling him out for being afraid of what he could do if he didn’t have it on. King trying to prove him wrong went out of his defensive mode and tried to defeat zoro by going on the offensive by turning it off
And again king was avoiding attacks even pre conquerors. And again zoro already figured out how to fight him and knew attacking flame on was useless. So even if king tried to do the same attack zoro wouldn’t have made the same mistake by attacking
Because he obviously was scared of what zoro could do when he was out of flame so he kept his distance
the panel right after this...Zoro: OHHHHH!!! (makes a realization)
Zoro with proper understanding of kings power then says this to flame on king: Why bother block my attacks i thought they did nothing to you the freaking flame is on kings back how can you stick with the narrative that this is all about the rules of kings body when zoro literally calls him out right after king admits that zoro figured out his power this is a key moment for zoro in the fight kings own scared face with flame on immediately turns off the flame and creates space.
Zoro with proper understanding of kings power then says this to flame on king: Why bother block my attacks i thought they did nothing to you the freaking flame is on kings back how can you stick with the narrative that this is all about the rules of kings body when zoro literally calls him out right after king admits that zoro figured out his power this is a key moment for zoro in the fight kings own scared face with flame on immediately turns off the flame and creates space.
In the key moments shi shi son son,jackpot,black rope dragon twister all have the flame on and zoro remarks no damage...even zoro admits that he has cut him a few times but no blood loss (flame on). I have nothing wrong with them being PRACTICALLY INVINCIBLE because that is what they are with the flame on, but just like zoro vs king you have to scare them out of flame on or catch them off guard to win king at the very least felt threatned by zoro to the point of blocking with flame on and purposefully cutting off his flame to attack from range its as simple as that.
Unless oda is retconning when luffy and zoro use adv coc we should definetly see the same interaction they get scared to the point of cutting off the flame or oda establishes that with adv coc you can actually damage the seraphim.
Lastly you have to ask yourself just like sanji did if flame on mode is truly invincible how the heck did the race go extinct?
lmao u really think that ohhh is for that paper cut openingimma just wait for egghead and then come back here
Unless oda is retconning when luffy and zoro use adv coc we should definetly see the same interaction they get scared to the point of cutting off the flame or oda establishes that with adv coc you can actually damage the seraphim.
Lastly you have to ask yourself just like sanji did if flame on mode is truly invincible how the heck did the race go extinct?
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lmao u really think that ohhh is for that paper cut openingimma just wait for egghead and then come back here
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So that panel is just filler from Oda, amazing argument.
You still don't have a single argument against that page, and keep dodging it like a slimeball. There is no narrative reason other than to imply King can now be damaged in defence mode, especially since "are you scared" was in bold.
Again, previous things being contradicted later on is not something new.
Unlike you, I don't have to be disingenuous and stubborn for agenda reasons. If we later on see that Lunarians cannot be damaged at all by physical attacks when their flame is on, so be it... I will simply accept that and not keep reaching and invent headcanons.
Why did Zoro not realize they had features very similar to King?
CIS to keep extending the arc. Loda even played it off as a joke.
You can just explain it away as Loda making Zoro forget it to buy time until plot demands, i.e to buy time until probably Kizaru and co arrive.
Let's see Seraphim tank advanced conqueror's haki without any damage, I'll concede my L then.
Absolute clown show, but totally expected lmao.
Why would Zoro call him out for that, when he already knows King is vulnerable in his speed mode? Dude discovered it off screen.
And then dealt damage again, with King commenting about the rule.
And then he started blocking in his defence mode too. Why would Zoro call out him for blocking, and not him having his flames burning?
I know that you yourself knows all this, but you are lying intentionally. You've done this many times, not even surprising.
You still don't have a single argument against that page, and keep dodging it like a slimeball. There is no narrative reason other than to imply King can now be damaged in defence mode, especially since "are you scared" was in bold.
Again, previous things being contradicted later on is not something new.
Unlike you, I don't have to be disingenuous and stubborn for agenda reasons. If we later on see that Lunarians cannot be damaged at all by physical attacks when their flame is on, so be it... I will simply accept that and not keep reaching and invent headcanons.
Why did Zoro not realize they had features very similar to King?
CIS to keep extending the arc. Loda even played it off as a joke.
You can just explain it away as Loda making Zoro forget it to buy time until plot demands, i.e to buy time until probably Kizaru and co arrive.
Let's see Seraphim tank advanced conqueror's haki without any damage, I'll concede my L then.
Absolute clown show, but totally expected lmao.
Why would Zoro call him out for that, when he already knows King is vulnerable in his speed mode? Dude discovered it off screen.
And then dealt damage again, with King commenting about the rule.
And then he started blocking in his defence mode too. Why would Zoro call out him for blocking, and not him having his flames burning?
I know that you yourself knows all this, but you are lying intentionally. You've done this many times, not even surprising.
I’ve explained in idk how many times in this thread alone
He was scared to stop blocking with his flame. That’s pretty much it. It really really isn’t that complicated or confusing
Zoro not being able to hurt a lunarian with their flame on isn’t contradicting anything or a plot hole or a retcon. It’s something we’ve been told multiple times repeatedly by even zoro himself
You acting as if you need conquerors to hurt a lunarian or force them out of their flame is 100% pushing an agenda. Acting like zoro can’t defeat a lunarian without conquerors is the dumbest hill to di
Him being vulnerable to damage doesn’t mean he wasn’t downplaying the damage he was receiving. Something we saw Kaido do, queen do, and even Ulti do
Even outside of his flame mode he still has extremely high endurance and toughness thank to his fruit
…his flame blocks attacks
He uses his flame to block attacks
Zoro calls him out on being afraid of getting out of his flame mode. King even outside of his flame is still a tank but was definitely feeling zoro’s attacks. He tried to prove him wrong by turning it off and defeating zoro by going on the offensive instead of just blocking with his flame
You being confused isn’t me lying
He was scared to stop blocking with his flame. That’s pretty much it. It really really isn’t that complicated or confusing
Zoro not being able to hurt a lunarian with their flame on isn’t contradicting anything or a plot hole or a retcon. It’s something we’ve been told multiple times repeatedly by even zoro himself
You acting as if you need conquerors to hurt a lunarian or force them out of their flame is 100% pushing an agenda. Acting like zoro can’t defeat a lunarian without conquerors is the dumbest hill to di
Him being vulnerable to damage doesn’t mean he wasn’t downplaying the damage he was receiving. Something we saw Kaido do, queen do, and even Ulti do
Even outside of his flame mode he still has extremely high endurance and toughness thank to his fruit
…his flame blocks attacks
He uses his flame to block attacks
Zoro calls him out on being afraid of getting out of his flame mode. King even outside of his flame is still a tank but was definitely feeling zoro’s attacks. He tried to prove him wrong by turning it off and defeating zoro by going on the offensive instead of just blocking with his flame
You being confused isn’t me lying
Obviously, king negged by greenbull's DF should have answered this already.
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I'm still waiting for someone to counter my post.
This scene occurred prior to Zoro explaining to them how lunariana body work.
As I said, why did Luffy get frustrated he couldn't hurt them, compare them to Kaido, yet never try an ACoC attack against them.
As I said, why did Luffy get frustrated he couldn't hurt them, compare them to Kaido, yet never try an ACoC attack against them.
Why didn't Luffy say, so you think you're Kaido, not even Kaido can tank ACoC attacks without sustaining any damage.
Thank you for being a little bit normal and realizing conquerors was never a necessity
Also as zoro “stan” what’s up with other ones wanking king more than they do zoro? Even when it undermines zoro’s strength or even intelligence
Also as zoro “stan” what’s up with other ones wanking king more than they do zoro? Even when it undermines zoro’s strength or even intelligence
An insanely Ludacris amout of AP is needed to beat King
Zoro who can scar Kaido without CoC can beat King
Luffy who can barely even tickle Kaido without CoC can't beat King
Katakuri would die of exhaustion trying to beat King or just die from his bomb
I've already counter this dumb argument. GB beat two people who were weaken and still not fully recovered. This is Kaido 8 days after Oden almost 2 shot him.
Kaido still hasn't fully recovered. He has better recovery and healing than ancient zoan DF users. He wasn't even knocked unconscious.
The manga tells us the timeline. It rain 5 days after the battle.
Oden was executed 3 days later.
As I just explained, GB is irrelevant because how he is able to defeat his opponents. He doesn't defeat them by damaging them to the point they can no longer can fight. He can drain people energy or life force.
That still doesn't explain why Luffy, who beat Kaido, it's having trouble against characters weaker than King only because of the powesr they received from King.
The manga tells us the timeline. It rain 5 days after the battle.
Oden was executed 3 days later.
As I just explained, GB is irrelevant because how he is able to defeat his opponents. He doesn't defeat them by damaging them to the point they can no longer can fight. He can drain people energy or life force.
That still doesn't explain why Luffy, who beat Kaido, it's having trouble against characters weaker than King only because of the powesr they received from King.
C
I've already counter this dumb argument. GB beat two people who were weaken and still not fully recovered. This is Kaido 8 days after Oden almost 2 shot him.
Kaido still hasn't fully recovered. He has better recovery and healing than ancient zoan DF users. He wasn't even knocked unconscious.
The manga tells us the timeline. It rain 5 days after the battle.
Oden was executed 3 days later.
As I just explained, GB is irrelevant because how he is able to defeat his opponents. He doesn't defeat them by damaging them to the point they can no longer can fight. He can drain people energy or life force.
That still doesn't explain why Luffy, who beat Kaido, it's having trouble against characters weaker than King only because of the powesr they received from King.
The manga tells us the timeline. It rain 5 days after the battle.
Oden was executed 3 days later.
As I just explained, GB is irrelevant because how he is able to defeat his opponents. He doesn't defeat them by damaging them to the point they can no longer can fight. He can drain people energy or life force.
That still doesn't explain why Luffy, who beat Kaido, it's having trouble against characters weaker than King only because of the powesr they received from King.
Greenbull negged king and thats a FACT, don't like it? Complain with oda.
I don’t necessarily agree with where you scale zoro overall but at least we can agree that the whole notion of zoro needing conquerors to beat lunarians or force them out of their flame or whatever is 100% bullshit
is Lunarian fire time limit based or choice based
One possibility could be that King realized that even his fire can't save from Zoro's insane AP after CoC boost so he did the best he could do maintain distance and launch his strongest attack (His fire seemed to be on in Anime) and he still got wrecked.
As of right now, only thing that is confirmed is that Lunarian fire mode is closest to invinicibiltiy, as long as you have fire on your back, it is nigh impossible to hurt you..that is what Seraphim arc is conveying.
So I'd say if King had Fire On, even if he got hit by Hakai he would likely come out scratchless
Tho I could be wrong.
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Don't care, didn't read.
Greenbull negged king and thats a FACT, don't like it? Complain with oda.
Greenbull negged king and thats a FACT, don't like it? Complain with oda.
Same Green Bull who neg diffed yamatrash after tanking her strongest attack and could have killed her soon if Shanks didn't show up.
King low diffs Yamato
Oda definitely could’ve and should’ve handled it better
I think him turning it off and trying to finish off zoro from a distance comes down to zoro calling him out. He called him out for blocking with his flame and being afraid of what he could do to him if he turned it off
King trying to prove him wrong then turned off his flame to go on the offensive and end it. Him keeping his distance because he was clearly scared of what zoro could do
We’ve been told too many times at this point by zoro himself his useless it is to attack while their flame is on. It also isn’t like conquerors ads special properties to your attack. Conquerors isn’t an anti lunarian ability all it does is boost your ap when infusing it with your armament
I doubt any lunarian would be taken out by hakai flame on
I think him turning it off and trying to finish off zoro from a distance comes down to zoro calling him out. He called him out for blocking with his flame and being afraid of what he could do to him if he turned it off
King trying to prove him wrong then turned off his flame to go on the offensive and end it. Him keeping his distance because he was clearly scared of what zoro could do
We’ve been told too many times at this point by zoro himself his useless it is to attack while their flame is on. It also isn’t like conquerors ads special properties to your attack. Conquerors isn’t an anti lunarian ability all it does is boost your ap when infusing it with your armament
I doubt any lunarian would be taken out by hakai flame on
Twas more like why is he blocking when he has fire, meaning king is afraid even his fire can't save him from Zoro potentially
TBH final attack Zoro said it doesn't matter what kind does fire Haki his final attack, nothing is saving him from Dragon Damnation
True but Zoro's Dragon Damnation was strongest attack in Wano period imo
That attack is so dangerous even Lunarian durability can't save you from it.
I'd say it makes sense since Dragon Damnation should be unimaginably above Roof Top Ashura which already could scar Kaido. Dragon Damnation likely kills Kaido.
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TBH final attack Zoro said it doesn't matter what kind does fire Haki his final attack, nothing is saving him from Dragon Damnation
True but Zoro's Dragon Damnation was strongest attack in Wano period imo
That attack is so dangerous even Lunarian durability can't save you from it.
I'd say it makes sense since Dragon Damnation should be unimaginably above Roof Top Ashura which already could scar Kaido. Dragon Damnation likely kills Kaido.