Powers & Abilities Why do people have trouble calling characters swordsman ?

[Dark Hound]

Nah, I disagree even if I'm a Zoro fan. In other mangas you simply need to have a sword to be conaidered a swordsman because they lack the concept of df of any other kind of power who cimes before his swordsmanship. In Dragonball we have Trunks or even Gohan who use sword but they at best are swordsman after being Z warriors (brawlers, throw ki blasts etc etc) and the same is with OP, Law has a sword but it is only functional to his power, BM has a talking sword which she uses time to time and is very powerful but she also has a tremendous strength/haki and df and so on.

Um... no Trunks is a swordsman. There's no hierarchy, you're just making shit up. being a Z Warrior is not a fighting style. Trunks can brawl and throw ki blasts AND is a swordsman, there's no hierarchy, he is both.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

And as such, I am sorry but the wss title refers to people, who are primarily using a sword as a weapon.
In this group, the person, aka mihawk is the strongest, which itself is a great feat.
But that does not mean, that he is stronger than people, who use a sword. For example big mom.

No one in the op world can say that mihawk>big mom, simply because they never fought.

Simple as that.

You're making shit up. I love how these fandom make rules up to be a swordsman out their butts, it's just hilarious

Like I said you're in denial because of Mihawk and Zoro, if Mihawk and Zoro didn't exist you would no problem calling BM a swordsman

 

[HA001]

I agree with you nut oda said law is a swordman, which is true, since his fighting style is based on a sword, which is enhanced with his fruit. He is clearly a swordsman. Since he PRIMARILY fights with his sword.


So the question is, is the primary fighting style with a sword or not.
Fujitora -> definitively a swordsman
Big mom -> no, because fighting with a sword is only a part of her style, she don't use a sword primarily.

So the question is, if the weapon is used primarily to fight or not.


For example, wb has a blade, which is of the highest grade.
Imo he is not a blade user, since that IS ONLY ENHANCING his fighting, which is based on his df. He is more of a brawler-type, like luffy.
Same goes for garp, kizaru ,aokiji ,akainu etc.
They all know how to use a sword, since they were trained like coby, but just like coby, they aren't swordsmen.

So the question for characters lile roger and shanks is, is the sword the primary fighting style or not.

I would say no. They are most likely brawlers, like garp, luffy etc.

Wb used his blade to fight roger in his prime and showed amazing haki mastery.
Marineford beard was a shell.


How you say shanks is a brawler like garp despite him using a sword all his life is a joke.

 

[Drachenblut]

@HA001
We never saw the fight 🤦‍♂️ we only saw their first and only clash. How can you say that he used the whole fight his blade, when in marineford, where he fought till the end, he mostly used his fists instead of his blade? Logic? Yeah, zero.
He was only a shell? Really? What has this to do with his fighting style? Why should he change his way because of that?
His body got weaker, so instead of using a weapon, he uses his body. LOGIC?

As for shanks, we never even saw that dude fight, yeah he was with a sword in a clash with wb and akainu and in his younger days. So what?
You could have big mom switch with shanks and see those scenes with her using napoleon. So? Is that the extend of big mom?

NO ONE KNOWS, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET. SO I'M GUESSING. LIKE YOU ALL.

Stop stating things like a fact just because you want it like that. Lol.

 

[Dark Hound]

You guys are mixing up what it means to be the WSS with my thread

My thread is : what it means to be a swordsman, I'm not taling about WSS title here

WB was the WSM, does that mean he was stronger than every single man breathing or that he fought every strong men ? No

Same for Mihawk, he didn't fight every single swordsman or have to be stronger than any sword user breathing.

BM is a swordsman. Does that mean she's weaker than Mihawk ? Not necessarily. Like @WillOfMyD said, you need to focus on swordsmanship to have WSS and have better swordsmanship

Mihawk have better swordsmanship than BM

Does that mean BM isn't a swordsman ?? HELL TO THE FUCK NO !!!!

and also what's wrong with Mihawk > BM ?? The only thing stopping that is your anti-Mihawk and zoro bias

 

[Marimo_420]

Glad to see everyone's already summarised it perfectly.

On a basic level, they are too salty for their strongest character to fall below Zoro and Mihawk i.e Shanks/Fuji/Law. It doesn't fit their made up headcannons, so they deny the manga.

Another reason is simply because they refuse to believe Zoro wil end up as a solid top tier Eos. There are 2 certain fanbases that don't like this.

Spoiler

Extreme Luffy fans and Extreme Sanji fans

 

[HA001]

@HA001
We never saw the fight 🤦‍♂️ we only saw their first and only clash. How can you say that he used the whole fight his blade, when in marineford, where he fought till the end, he mostly used his fists instead of his blade? Logic? Yeah, zero.

As for shanks, we never even saw that dude fight, yeah he was with a sword in a clash with wb and akainu and in his younger days. So what?
You could have big mom switch with shanks and see those scenes with her using napoleon. So? Is that the extend of big mom?

NO ONE KNOWS, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET. SO I'M GUESSING. LIKE YOU ALL.

Stop stating things like a fact just because you want it like that. Lol.

Shanks as kid has a sword
Vs shikki used a sword
Vs wb as a kid with buggy used a sword
Had many sword duels with mihawk as a sword
Has a named sword called gryphon
Reached for his sword vs ace
Ace novel says when his coc isnt enough he reaches for his sword
Blocks wb with his sword
Blocks akainu with his sword
Challenges marineford raising his sword.



You... hes a brawler.

 

[Drachenblut]

@Dark Hound
Then say IN TERMS OF SWORDMANSHIP, WHEN THEY WOULD ONLY FIGHT WITH SWORDS, MIHAWK IS FOR EXAMPKE STRONGER THAN BIG MOM.

Because wss suggests, that wss > other swordman

While wsm > other people, regardless how they fight.


The way you are saying it, nearly everyone in the fandom would assume that mihawk > big mom.
IF YOU COUNT HER AS A SWORDSMAN.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

Shanks as kid has a sword
Vs shikki used a sword
Vs wb as a kid with buggy used a sword
Had many sword duels with mihawk as a sword
Has a named sword called gryphon
Reached for his sword vs ace
Ace novel says when his coc isnt enough he reaches for his sword
Blocks wb with his sword
Blocks akainu with his sword
Challenges marineford raising his sword.



You... hes a brawler.

As for shanks, honestly I don't care.
It's just my feeling, that his real power lies in his coc and that he is using that to power up himself/ his body.
As I said, my feeling. So I made an assumption.

Then count him as a swordsman, who cares. 🤷‍♂️

But what I am trying to say doesn't change.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

And no, I like zoro and mihawk a lot. Stop assuming that everyone who has a different opinion hates them. The world has more than 2 colors^^.


I just don't see mihawk>big mom. Based on what was shown till now. That's it.

 

[pedxi]

when Oda states Vista is more skilled than Mihawk
you know the title is fake

 

[Dark Hound]

@Dark Hound
Then say IN TERMS OF SWORDMANSHIP, WHEN THEY WOULD ONLY FIGHT WITH SWORDS, MIHAWK IS FOR EXAMPKE STRONGER THAN BIG MOM.

Because wss suggests, that wss > other swordman

While wsm > other people, regardless how they fight.


The way you are saying it, nearly everyone in the fandom would assume that mihawk > big mom.
IF YOU COUNT HER AS A SWORDSMAN.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

As for shanks, honestly I don't care.
It's just my feeling, that his real power lies in his coc and that he is using that to power up himself/ his body.
As I said, my feeling. So I made an assumption.

Then count him as a swordsman, who cares. 🤷‍♂️

But what I am trying to say doesn't change.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

And no, I like zoro and mihawk a lot. Stop assuming that everyone who has a different opinion hates them. The world has more than 2 colors^^.


I just don't see mihawk>big mom. Based on what was shown till now. That's it.

what's wrong with Mihawk > Big Mom

DOes it bother you ? Does it irritate your skin or something

 

[Drachenblut]

No why should it? Again, I like mihawk amd zoro QUITE a lot. I just don't like mihawk and zorotards, who puts them like mihawk,zoro > god.
I mean, everyone has limits. That's ok. That does not diminish them.

 

[Worst]

The difference should only be between the guys who actually pursue swordsmanship and the ones who just grab one and start swinging it like a fking bat ...... sure Mihawk's swordsmanship is 1000% > than BM's but BM is overall stronger than Mihawk

 

[Finalbeta]

BM is easily a swordswoman.

Same goes for Kizaru and Law.

 

[Dark Hound]

No why should it? Again, I like mihawk amd zoro QUITE a lot. I just don't like mihawk and zorotards, who puts them like mihawk,zoro > god.
I mean, everyone has limits. That's ok. That does not diminish them.

You didn't answer what's wrong with Mihawk > BM

 

[L o g i a]

I agree with you nut oda said law is a swordman, which is true, since his fighting style is based on a sword, which is enhanced with his fruit. He is clearly a swordsman. Since he PRIMARILY fights with his sword.

The caveat here is Law primarily uses his fruit with his sword. He isnt' a dedicated swordsman, he uses a sword as leverage with or to amplify his primary method of fighting - it's interesting though, because a way to look at it is if WSS applies strictly to swordsmanship or to swordsmen as a whole. If it's the former, Law can remain stronger than Zoro and there's no powerscaling issues

So the question is, is the primary fighting style with a sword or not.
Fujitora -> definitively a swordsman
Big mom -> no, because fighting with a sword is only a part of her style, she don't use a sword primarily.

Agreed. Linlin is kinda like Luffy with a sword - just happens to have one imo

So the question is, if the weapon is used primarily to fight or not.


For example, wb has a blade, which is of the highest grade.
Imo he is not a blade user, since that IS ONLY ENHANCING his fighting, which is based on his df. He is more of a brawler-type, like luffy.
Same goes for garp, kizaru ,aokiji ,akainu etc.
They all know how to use a sword, since they were trained like coby, but just like coby, they aren't swordsmen.

So the question for characters lile roger and shanks is, is the sword the primary fighting style or not.

I would say no. They are most likely brawlers, like garp, luffy etc.

WB's blade is counted as a sword but he's definitely not a swordsman; as you say. It's so confusing. I genuinely wish it were as simple as sword = swordsman. Like, even the definition of a swordsman is blurry because Kaku claimed to be a Yontoryu swordsman because of Rankyaku UGH!!!!

None of what you say makes any sense

I don't think what I said is unreasonable in any possible way. It's just how I see things I'm afraid. Sorry.

Why isn't Law a swordsman ? What if KnY revolves around swordsmanship ?? If One Piece revolved around swordsmanship you would have considered Big Mom a swordsman ?

It can be argued that Law can and does fight without his sword - he uses his fruit without his sword but never/rarely uses his sword without his fruit. The only instances where the latter is true was when he is blocking in CQC too; very few instances. If OP was about Samurai and swordsman then yes I probably would - however, One Piece has additional levels of complexity that manga like Kimetsu no Yaiba do not have; where non-swordsmen have swords (WB's Bisento is one of the Great Blades) and where Swordsmen have no swords (e.g. Zoro no sword style, Kaku did Nitoryu with just Rankyaku etc.)

It's weird my guy

What the hell is the difference between Law and Fujitora ?

That is a good question. I personally see Fujitora using his sword more than his fruit, whereas the opposite is true for Law. Fujitora's trained and dedicated to swordsmanship even before he acquired the Zushi Zushi no Mi (which is relatively new to him given he was testing his power in DR). I cant see Law dedicating himself to swordsmanship - more of a utility tool in terms of Law.

Continuity ? So Law isn't swordsman because you want him to be stronger than Zoro EoS ? Which is basically my point, you're just doing this because of Zoro and Mihawk.

You're an hypocrite

Nah I just see Law having many parallels with WB/Shiki (same for Kidd) and I can't see Zoro reaching that level ever. I expect Law to be a next gen Yonko or equivalent following the final war. Mihawk has nothing to do with it at all idgaf how strong he is as long as he's weaker than EoS Zoro.

Why are you being so aggressive? Dude chill.

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

BM is a swordsman. Does that mean she's weaker than Mihawk ? Not necessarily. Like @WillOfMyD said, you need to focus on swordsmanship to have WSS and have better swordsmanship


Does that mean BM isn't a swordsman ?? HELL TO THE FUCK NO !!!!

and also what's wrong with Mihawk > BM ?? The only thing stopping that is your anti-Mihawk and zoro bias

But I thought nothing I said made any sense?


That's an interesting angle and one I would be willing to adopt potentially

 

[SmokedOut]

Lol is there a thread where all the swordsman are listed? Let's just knock it out once and for all

 

[nik87]

Lol is there a thread where are the swordsman are listed? Let's just knock it out once and for all

Everyone who fights with a sword and exclude people who pick up a sword for the lulz(Luffy). There ya go.

 

[Zowo]

Shanks as kid has a sword
Vs shikki used a sword
Vs wb as a kid with buggy used a sword
Had many sword duels with mihawk as a sword
Has a named sword called gryphon
Reached for his sword vs ace
Ace novel says when his coc isnt enough he reaches for his sword
Blocks wb with his sword
Blocks akainu with his sword
Challenges marineford raising his sword.



You... hes a brawler.

But but hakiman
but but black belt in karate

 

[redkai72]

when Oda states Vista is more skilled than Mihawk
you know the title is fake

he never said that. That was a mistranslation that someone has been pushing.

 

[Drachenblut]

You didn't answer what's wrong with Mihawk > BM

Nothing except big mom >= mihawk.

Let's be clear, if it was like mihawk > big mom, mihawk would be in the new world and not in paradise. As he was one of the seven warlords, so his only opponents would be the yonkos. And if mihawk > big mom...
Well, yeah. The new world would not be ruled by the yonkos but the marines + warlords.
So it is illogical to say otherwise. Imo.

Aside from that, featwise, big mom > mihawk. 🤷‍♂️

 

[pedxi]

he never said that. That was a mistranslation that someone has been pushing.

what's the correct translation says