Powers & Abilities Gear 5 IS a better power-up than Super Saiyan (not a joke/bait thread)

#41
- Supersayan is like a lot of story a product of anger. This is not only basic but also very problematic as it portray the idea that when you are angry you can developp a super power. This is a product of toxic masculinity that men face all around the world in media, meaning that in media character are expected to be hero when they are angry and smashing stuff, when in reality, this is the behavior of a violent person.
lol you're literally reading a story where Luffy beats people up for angering him personally. Not because he's a hero or is the "right thing to do"

In fact SSJ was more kind than G5. Luffy literally planned to "send Kaido to hell" meanwhile Goku spared Freiza and regretted killing him.
 
#42
To add to this post, maybe people feel SSJ more iconic because they have grown up with it however I have entered anime/manga world from last 7 years with death note and dragon ball is the last shonen I have watched....I am more connected to cartoons and therefore I prefer G5 over SSJ...
 
#44
lol you're literally reading a story where Luffy beats people up for angering him personally. Not because he's a hero or is the "right thing to do"

In fact SSJ was more kind than G5. Luffy literally planned to "send Kaido to hell" meanwhile Goku spared Freiza and regretted killing him.
When I was a child, I was often beat up by a guy, mostly punched. He was far stronger than me. One day, I was so angry and crying that I try to transform into supersayan, thinking that if I'm angry, I will developp a superpower.. I was punched again and the harrasment only stopped in middle school.

Super sayan and other transformation like that that come from anger are quite problematic for children. Yes, they are cool, but they are unhealthy from a mental point of view.

I suggest you watch this video for more information on why power through anger is a problem in media.


One Piece while having Luffy beat his opponent through a punch of anger (a legitimate one) almost NEVER fall into the cliche that anger makes you stronger. In the opposite, One Piece has a lot of creative way to create powerups.
 
#46
No series has ever made me come to detest the concept of foreshadowing like One Piece has.

First of all, just because something is foreshadowed doesn't automatically make it good. Secondly, how much of One Piece's "foreshadowing" is actually foreshadowing and how much of it is just Oda retroactively connecting a bunch of random dots?

There is an interview with Oda where Oda flat out states that the 11 Supernova weren't planned and they were conceived of about one chapter before their introduction purely because Sabaody needed some extra "excitement". Some of these guys go on to form the backbone of Luffy's New World allies with Law being especially indispensable. The idea that the same author who continually adds random crap throughout his story because it "spices it up" and ends up surprised by how impactful/popular some of his characters become (e.g. Law), also planned things so meticulously in advance that a freaking shadow from over a decade ago is meant to be foreshadowing is somewhere between egregious reach and copium overdose.

Thirdly, even if it is foreshadowing, there comes a point where you just cannot reasonably expect people to remember such minor stuff from years ago. Like damn, I would have been in secondary school when I first saw Skypiea and in primary school when Skypiea first came out. People just aren't going to remember such minor, trivial moments like "Hey, look at Luffy's shadow". Especially not in a gargantuan series where 100-150 chapters now completes a single arc. Compare that to Dragon Ball Z where 150 chapters gets you from Raditz to the Androids.
Exactly,
These fans are just coping
Oda is the King of adds-on and improvisations
Most stuff we got in OP are just him freestyling yet some fans wanna try make it seem like Oda was doing some foreshadowing

He just remembered and did a retcon.
Nobody even thought that pose was gonna be G5 at all. Not even Oda himself lol
 
#47
Exactly,
These fans are just coping
Oda is the King of adds-on and improvisations
Most stuff we got in OP are just him freestyling yet some fans wanna try make it seem like Oda was doing some foreshadowing

He just remembered and did a retcon.
Nobody even thought that pose was gonna be G5 at all. Not even Oda himself lol
While this can be true in some cases (mostly when we talk about theories) this is not the case for gear 5. There is a clear sets of amazing foreshadowing in One Piece concerning this transformation.

We can say that not only because of the way gear 5 is presented, but also the way Oda creates his story as a whole.

But like I explain earlier, foreshadowings are but a little part of the reason why gear 5 is such a beautifully written power up and plot twist.
 
#48
Exactly,
These fans are just coping
Oda is the King of adds-on and improvisations
Most stuff we got in OP are just him freestyling yet some fans wanna try make it seem like Oda was doing some foreshadowing

He just remembered and did a retcon.
Nobody even thought that pose was gonna be G5 at all. Not even Oda himself lol
A lot of people have compared Nicky's shadow to Luffy's shadow in Skypie. In addition, this is stated in the Road to the Raftel
 
#50
Oh I think you and I are gonna have fun.
No, we are not because I have your arse on ignore. Why?
- Supersayan is like a lot of story a product of anger. This is not only basic but also very problematic as it portray the idea that when you are angry you can developp a super power. This is a product of toxic masculinity that men face all around the world in media, meaning that in media character are expected to be hero when they are angry and smashing stuff, when in reality, this is the behavior of a violent person.
Brain-dead, knuckle dragging, troglodyte nonsense like this. "Oh wow, it is societally problematic that a man becomes angry that his friend was killed right before his eyes!!! Think of the toxic masculinity of men not wanting their friends dead!!! Think of the toxic masculinity of men being motivated by the loss of loved ones!!!! Think of the toxic masculinity of men feeling justified emotions!!!!! ThiNk oF tHe tOxiC mAscULiNITy!!!!!!!"

I refuse to entertain anybody whose worldview is so decayed, corrupted and warped by political interests that they will see the imaginary phantom spectre of perceived political messaging in everything and anything, even in the most bare bones basics of stories or moments that follow themes that have nothing to do with politics. Human emotions aren't political talking points.

I only saw your post because I wondered who @Roo was talking to. Go bother Bob. He'll humour you on mundane, inane, asinine drivel like this.
 
#51
One Piece while having Luffy beat his opponent through a punch of anger (a legitimate one) almost NEVER fall into the cliche that anger makes you stronger. In the opposite, One Piece has a lot of creative way to create powerups.
what series are you reading? for 90% of One Piece the moment Luffy got angry was the moment the fight was nearing it's end. Oda didn't need to outright state "Luffy gets stronger when angrier" when he literally showed us that.

 
#52
Brain-dead, knuckle dragging, troglodyte nonsense like this. "Oh wow, it is societally problematic that a man becomes angry that his friend was killed right before his eyes!!! Think of the toxic masculinity of men not wanting their friends dead!!! Think of the toxic masculinity of men being motivated by the loss of loved ones!!!! Think of the toxic masculinity of men feeling justified emotions!!!!! ThiNk oF tHe tOxiC mAscULiNITy!!!!!!!"
Yeah I think you don't understand the problem. But its not the right thread to talk about that so I will ignore this. If you don't understand what I said, that's not my problem.


what series are you reading? for 90% of One Piece the moment Luffy got angry was the moment the fight was nearing it's end. Oda didn't need to outright state "Luffy gets stronger when angrier" when he literally showed us that.

Like I said, at the end Luffy is angry for right reasons. But it doesn't make him stronger its only makes him angrier. The strengh of Luffy here is not "improved" because he is angry, this strenght was always there. The problem comes when anger leads to more power. But like I said to your mate above, I'll not discuss that here. If you understand cool, if you don't, ciao.


I refuse to entertain anybody whose worldview is so decayed, corrupted and warped by political interests that they will see the imaginary phantom spectre of perceived political messaging in everything and anything, even in the most bare bones basics of stories or moments that follow themes that have nothing to do with politics. Human emotions aren't political talking points.
Another one that think that stories don't shape the way we think..
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Brain-dead, knuckle dragging, troglodyte nonsense like this.
Funny, there is this pattern of verbal violence when I talk to rightist or people who don't understand the story. As if what I said challenges their point of view. Note that there is no sign of counter point it's just "you are wrong".
 
#53
Oh I think you and I are gonna have fun.

Do you remember Gear 2 and gear 3? Those are foreshadowings.
Do you remember Shanks stealing the fruit in chapter 1 ? This is a foreshadowing
Do you remember the Nika conversation ? This is a foreshadowing
Do you remember the joy boy conversation in Fishmen island ? This is a foreshadowing.


No, foreshadowing doesn't necessarally mean a story is good. But its one of the best indication it is. The gear 5 is one of the best plot twist of the entiere serie. But the thing you forget is that its not only good because of the foreshadowing, its also the best because of everything else:

- Gear 5 push the theme of freedom to its limits which is the core theme of One Piece but also Luffy
- Gear 5 extend the lore around the One Piece, making its appearance a HUGE worldbuilding moment, not just a cool transformation
- Gear 5 put the spectator on his head by twisting not only a transformation but the ENTIRE story on its head by the fact that something like the gomu gomu fruit it reput into question. This is something only prodigies stories are able to do. So needless to say that it doesn't happen often, even Shakespear had hard time doing that.
- Gear 5 extend the symbolism present in One Piece around the theme of the sun, the down and the moon. Which create an echo chamùber of theme that resonnate all over the story. This is again, something only the best stories can do.

Now for the comparison:

- Supersayan was foreshadow one time (meaning with the same principle "someone saying that the ultimate warrior exist")
- Supersayan is like a lot of story a product of anger. This is not only basic but also very problematic as it portray the idea that when you are angry you can developp a super power. This is a product of toxic masculinity that men face all around the world in media, meaning that in media character are expected to be hero when they are angry and smashing stuff, when in reality, this is the behavior of a violent person.
- While supersayan is cool, it doesn't resonnate in any symbolic way shape or form
- While supersayan is cool, it doesn't turn the story on its head
- While supersayan is cool, it doesn't push forward the world building or the knowledge we have of the fantasy world of Dragon ball.

So yeah

This is not even a match. Not only gear 5 benefit of a bigger hype, gear 5 is also better both in storytelling and symbolism.

Oh and one last thing: Gear 5 is created in such a manner that it transcend the format. By creating a transformation that reminds us of the toons, gear 5 pushes the manga format to its limits breaking the barrier of what is possible in one's story.
If you really think that a shabby retcon such as Gear 5th represents a landmark in the history of Storytelling (that Shakespeare comparison, please… :whitepress:) you definitely need to read more. Or better.
 
#57
I was gonna post something similar but you beat me to it. Nothing will ever come close to the hype I had when Goku went Super Saiyan the first time. That shit put anime/manga on the map for millions of people around the world and I don't think that we are posting on a manga/anime message board (that isn't even DB related) right now if Goku vs Frieza and SS wasn't as good and iconic as it is.

Yes, it later got ruined as it was clear that Toei was just pushing certain things for merchandise sales. Thank God we are in an era where one series doesn't have to carry an entire medium outside of Japan like DB was in the mid 90s.
At what point did sayans power ups got ruined for you? I did like it until SSJ3 and that Goku transformation in SS3 in anime is also one of the most iconic transformation ever. Too bad it was hardly ever used.
 
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