Chapter Discussion Luffy vs Kizaru is annoyingly vague

[Albino 👑]

Off the bat I have no issue with it being a tough fight since it’s between 2 top tiers but imo it’s so difficult to tell how much they’re actually trying.

When it comes to how much luffy is trying idk about you but I have no idea whether or not he’s using any form of advanced haki. Whether he’s been using future sight, barrier armament, penetration armament, and/or conquerors coating idk.
If he went all out with his base, jet, elephant, or roc attacks before going into g4 idk
If went all out in g4 or at least used attacks like black mamba/hydra idk
Even while his in g5 his strongest form that’s not really any insinuation of him being pushed to that point and everything else not being good enough because we saw him use it against Lucci.

For kizaru he’s just so much of a troll it’s just difficult to base anything on his reactions lol. Like he could be pushed to using awakening and I doubt his attitude is going to change all that much.
Outside of that it’s also difficult to tell how much his attacks are doing to luffy. In the snakeman clash both of them are seemingly attacking but whether luffy is just tanking his lasers or dodging idk. How much damage his super light speed kick did to luffy idk cause most of the damage luffy has on him seems to be do to the barrier.

I still have hopes that the fight will get better and it definitely will but so far not being able to tell how much effort is being put in is annoying and confusing imo. Maybe y’all can tell but I can’t so

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Yeah it's weird.
Can barely tell if Luffy's using Advanced Haki or not (as in ACoA or Future Sight, obviously he's not using ACoC), and we also don't even know if Kizaru's using Haki to guard against Luffy's attacks, kind of poor choreography up until Kizaru's charged kick.

 

[SkySanji]

The difference between Luffy and Kizaru here is we explicitly know Luffy is holding back considerable powerups, we don't know that for Kizaru, it's just being assumed to his benefit for no reason.

 

[Albino 👑]

Yeah it's weird.
Can barely tell if Luffy's using Advanced Haki or not (as in ACoA or Future Sight, obviously he's not using ACoC), and we also don't even know if Kizaru's using Haki to guard against Luffy's attacks, kind of poor choreography up until Kizaru's charged kick.

Yeah like I didn’t expect the fight to be nearly as long as luffy vs kaido but comparing it so far the contrast is crazy. It might be an unfair comparison due to the fights different in length but still.
Against kaido each gear was cool and badass to see be used in the fight. Even gearless luffy vs kaido was extremely hype.
Again kizaru we get a confusing kick from base luffy with us not getting to see the impact it really left and another vague clash snakeman.

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

The difference between Luffy and Kizaru here is we explicitly know Luffy is holding back considerable powerups, we don't know that for Kizaru, it's just being assumed to his benefit for no reason.

Are you actually stüpid?


Kizaru is not even shown using an ounce of Haki in his attacks, he's just straight up using his fruit and fruit alone and we know Kizaru can use Haki.


There's no barrier Haki shown for Kizaru.


So what do you mean we're assuming Kizaru isn't going all out ?

 

[Hako Sama]

Lol
Ledon's description of the kick is better than the panel itself.
Lolda

 

[SkySanji]

Are you actually stüpid?


Kizaru is not even shown using an ounce of Haki in his attacks, he's just straight up using his fruit and fruit alone and we know Kizaru can use Haki.


There's no barrier Haki shown for Kizaru.


So what do you mean we're assuming Kizaru isn't going all out ?

Kizaru is using haki against Luffy, use your eyes, and Kizaru doesn't have even half the haki proficiency Luffy does, zero ACoC, zero internal destruction, zero future sight as far as we know...how the fuck are you even remotely comparing how much haki they're each holding back lmao?

And I never said Kizaru was going all out, I said there's no explicit reason to believe he's holding back considerable powerups, unlike Luffy who we know for a fact is.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Are you actually stüpid?


Kizaru is not even shown using an ounce of Haki in his attacks, he's just straight up using his fruit and fruit alone and we know Kizaru can use Haki.


There's no barrier Haki shown for Kizaru.


So what do you mean we're assuming Kizaru isn't going all out ?

Kizaru has also stated about 30 damn times that he’s holding back lol.

Yes, @SkySanji is simply that stupid.

 

[Wh1p]

Neither are going all out, it's just a simple clash between two high level characters. No use overthinking it.

 

[Herrera95]

I understand and agree with you.

I would say that Luffy is going all out but Oda is not allowing him to use everything he learned at Wano.

Meanwhile I say that Kizaru is still holding back a little because he has his objectives to accomplish.

 

[JoNdule]

Off the bat I have no issue with it being a tough fight since it’s between 2 top tiers but imo it’s so difficult to tell how much they’re actually trying.

When it comes to how much luffy is trying idk about you but I have no idea whether or not he’s using any form of advanced haki. Whether he’s been using future sight, barrier armament, penetration armament, and/or conquerors coating idk.
If he went all out with his base, jet, elephant, or roc attacks before going into g4 idk
If went all out in g4 or at least used attacks like black mamba/hydra idk
Even while his in g5 his strongest form that’s not really any insinuation of him being pushed to that point and everything else not being good enough because we saw him use it against Lucci.

For kizaru he’s just so much of a troll it’s just difficult to base anything on his reactions lol. Like he could be pushed to using awakening and I doubt his attitude is going to change all that much.
Outside of that it’s also difficult to tell how much his attacks are doing to luffy. In the snakeman clash both of them are seemingly attacking but whether luffy is just tanking his lasers or dodging idk. How much damage his super light speed kick did to luffy idk cause most of the damage luffy has on him seems to be do to the barrier.

I still have hopes that the fight will get better and it definitely will but so far not being able to tell how much effort is being put in is annoying and confusing imo. Maybe y’all can tell but I can’t so

All we can deduct is that:

• Both clashed and none landed any hit on another per the panels where we see snakeman pinches and kizaru light beams as they clash
• Luffy didn't use adhaki (even fs is questionable)
• Kizaru can blitz luffy if he amps himself

The whole fight sucks
Oda just wanted to move to g5 ...every fight of Luffy now will be g5 even if he isn't damaged or pushed hard or the opponent is super weak.

 

[MonsterKaido]

I agree. We only see Kizaur's new technique and thats all. Oda restricting adv coc usage is also an L.

 

[Garps tekkai]

Yeah I also don't get what's happening. I also do not even understand how Kizaru blocks and what's happening there in general. One punch he blocks with his knee, then he is seen doing what looks like a light enhanced palm thrust, but at the same time there are light balls everywhere in the air.
I've got not fucking clue what was happening.

And yes looks like Oda just wants to get to the main course asap: G5 vs all out (hopefully awakened) Kizaru.
Hopefully Kizaru gets feats that will tell us that he could have also handled CoC Snakeman, otherwise I will question why Oda actively restricted Luffy.

 

[NAMELESS]

Off the bat I have no issue with it being a tough fight since it’s between 2 top tiers but imo it’s so difficult to tell how much they’re actually trying.

When it comes to how much luffy is trying idk about you but I have no idea whether or not he’s using any form of advanced haki. Whether he’s been using future sight, barrier armament, penetration armament, and/or conquerors coating idk.
If he went all out with his base, jet, elephant, or roc attacks before going into g4 idk
If went all out in g4 or at least used attacks like black mamba/hydra idk
Even while his in g5 his strongest form that’s not really any insinuation of him being pushed to that point and everything else not being good enough because we saw him use it against Lucci.

For kizaru he’s just so much of a troll it’s just difficult to base anything on his reactions lol. Like he could be pushed to using awakening and I doubt his attitude is going to change all that much.
Outside of that it’s also difficult to tell how much his attacks are doing to luffy. In the snakeman clash both of them are seemingly attacking but whether luffy is just tanking his lasers or dodging idk. How much damage his super light speed kick did to luffy idk cause most of the damage luffy has on him seems to be do to the barrier.

I still have hopes that the fight will get better and it definitely will but so far not being able to tell how much effort is being put in is annoying and confusing imo. Maybe y’all can tell but I can’t so

Oda is a lazy writter nowadays.He leaves to the anime to explain details.

 

[God of Finance]

Okay then I will explain for those with low IQs.

• Kizaru used barrier haki to block attacks rather than actively react to them. Smart man.
• Kizaru confirmed he can move even faster than SOL if provided enough distance to accelerate. This speed increases his power.
• Kizaru used the barrier setup by Punk as a weapon to do damage.
• Take notes ya'll, smokin that shit helps your battle IQ.

As for Luffy, he's just fighting for Oda's plot. Gear four was used to justify Gear 5, and Gear 5 was used for the sake of summoning the cool robot. I'll repeat myself for the dumbest. This is not a fight. This is choreography to highlight Kizaru's intelligence and to move the plot along with the robot.

Peace out.

 

[Thaidakar]

Expectations for luffy vs Kizaru

Luffy vs Kizaru

At least zoro would've had some fun

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I was looking forward to seeing this fight but it seems Oda has his priority somewhere else. Probably the worst choregraphy we've got for a Luffy fight. Both Kizaru and Luffy deserved better.
This makes me think that something will happen and Kizaru will basically let Luffy save Vegapunk.
This can't be the first fight we have between an admiral and a straw hat, it's too lame

 

[Lor D. Coast]

You finally realized that these fights are filler? Weaker antagonists than the ones that came before and 8 out 10 Strawhats doing nothing should've been enough to convince you of that.

 

[BigAmmi]

Okay then I will explain for those with low IQs.

• Kizaru used barrier haki to block attacks rather than actively react to them. Smart man.
• Kizaru confirmed he can move even faster than SOL if provided enough distance to accelerate. This speed increases his power.
• Kizaru used the barrier setup by Punk as a weapon to do damage.
• Take notes ya'll, smokin that shit helps your battle IQ.

As for Luffy, he's just fighting for Oda's plot. Gear four was used to justify Gear 5, and Gear 5 was used for the sake of summoning the cool robot. I'll repeat myself for the dumbest. This is not a fight. This is choreography to highlight Kizaru's intelligence and to move the plot along with the robot.

Peace out.

Incredibile that there are so many here that can't read a manga for teenager.


Oda don't want to draw a serious fight now, after he drew Luffy vs Kaido for so long.

With a small fight in EH, he want to explain that Luffy can fight an Admiral (Incredible! Wow!) and Kizaru can fight a Yonko (OMG! What a surprise!) and their level is similar (Ofc Luffy is stronger!)

People really are making a comparison between Kaido and Kizaru, two characters in a completely different situation and with a difference a importance in the story LMAO

 

[Paperchampion23]

Feel like this criticism should come in a few chapters or at the end of the arc. We dont even know if this is the "real" fight yet and if it is, how long itll actually last. We all know Oda can get into buances with Haki. Both Katakuri and Kaido both went into it pretty deeply.

So far there are like 2 pages of fighting at most between these 2 characters lol....