General & Others Kizaru vs Luffy: An Agendaless View
- Thread starter Blazing Lion
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Dragon please, Luffy vs Kizaru conclusion is the same as Luffy vs Lucci's conclusion
That is also the reason why Luffy could not restart the G5 against Saturn.
We can discuss why on so on, but this is the main difference imho.
What? Of course he did
Lucci brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy defeated Lucci temporarily and Luffy waited 32 seconds and then he was fine
The same shit happened against Kizaru
Kizaru brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy one shotted Kizaru and paralyzed him temporarily, and Luffy now has to wait 32 seconds
Luffy vs Kizaru conclusion is literally the same than Luffy vs Lucci
The real villain is Saturn anyway
The fact that Oda handled with Luffy vs Kizaru in a similar manner to Luffy vs Lucci and nothing close to Luffy vs Kaido clearly indicates that Luffy > Kizaru, even Saturn acknowledged that
Lucci brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy defeated Lucci temporarily and Luffy waited 32 seconds and then he was fine
The same shit happened against Kizaru
Kizaru brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy one shotted Kizaru and paralyzed him temporarily, and Luffy now has to wait 32 seconds
Luffy vs Kizaru conclusion is literally the same than Luffy vs Lucci
The real villain is Saturn anyway
The fact that Oda handled with Luffy vs Kizaru in a similar manner to Luffy vs Lucci and nothing close to Luffy vs Kaido clearly indicates that Luffy > Kizaru, even Saturn acknowledged that
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I have no problem saying that we saw the conflict settled with one clean hit. My figuring is that either Luffy moves on to the real boss or he can finish with Kizaru, but now that he's been hit like that he's not going to let it happen again. Kizaru wasn't focused on fighting and we haven't seen his awakening if he has one, considering how his peers managed to changed a whole climate with theirs.
A legit one shot would be to keep it moving. Luffy's first fight with Kaido was a low diff one shot because Luffy was rounded up by fodder while Kaido went to get drunk. Luffy himself isn't really the type to low diff: even that one lame ass Gifter managed to technically get a hit in when he shot a fireball during Luffy's attack. Right now the price for landing that punch on Kizaru is that he can't move a single muscle or even speak.
Oh and yes, you would absolutely say that Kizaru created the fatigue situation. He's the one who pointed out that Luffy was near the end of his stamina.
A legit one shot would be to keep it moving. Luffy's first fight with Kaido was a low diff one shot because Luffy was rounded up by fodder while Kaido went to get drunk. Luffy himself isn't really the type to low diff: even that one lame ass Gifter managed to technically get a hit in when he shot a fireball during Luffy's attack. Right now the price for landing that punch on Kizaru is that he can't move a single muscle or even speak.
Oh and yes, you would absolutely say that Kizaru created the fatigue situation. He's the one who pointed out that Luffy was near the end of his stamina.
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What? Of course he did
Lucci brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy defeated Lucci temporarily and Luffy waited 32 seconds and then he was fine
The same shit happened against Kizaru
Kizaru brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy one shotted Kizaru and paralyzed him temporarily, and Luffy now has to wait 32 seconds
Luffy vs Kizaru conclusion is literally the same than Luffy vs Lucci
Lucci brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy defeated Lucci temporarily and Luffy waited 32 seconds and then he was fine
The same shit happened against Kizaru
Kizaru brought Luffy to the G5 limit, Luffy one shotted Kizaru and paralyzed him temporarily, and Luffy now has to wait 32 seconds
Luffy vs Kizaru conclusion is literally the same than Luffy vs Lucci
Luffy vs Lucci was a fight that concluded in a very short time and so Luffy only felt the regular G5 aftermath of just using the new Gear and th dismiss it.
Luffy could have gone on using the G5 if Lucci endured more.
Against Kizaru, Luffy literally arrived at the extreme time limit and if, in hypothesis, Kizaru tanked the hit just fine, Luffy could have not used the G5 again.
Dude it's literally the same thing, you are just inventing random headcanon because you love the admirals and I get it
However, Luffy vs Lucci concluded the exact same way than Luffy vs Kizaru
Luffy reaches his limit, defeats his opponent (takes him down temporarily) and then he is back 32 seconds later
Even if Kizaru > Lucci and Luffy had it easier against Lucci, the fight concluded the exact same way
That gets to show you how little Oda cares about these characters in Egghead because the real villain is Saturn anyway and the real fight will be Nika vs Saturn
However, Luffy vs Lucci concluded the exact same way than Luffy vs Kizaru
Luffy reaches his limit, defeats his opponent (takes him down temporarily) and then he is back 32 seconds later
Even if Kizaru > Lucci and Luffy had it easier against Lucci, the fight concluded the exact same way
That gets to show you how little Oda cares about these characters in Egghead because the real villain is Saturn anyway and the real fight will be Nika vs Saturn
In all different ways people were killed by titans in Attack On Titan manga. Oda should have read that manga for inspiration maybe to come up with more plausible ways to make Kizaru stay alive.
A simple squeeze would make Kizaru dead instantly.
Submerging his fist into water and holding him there could have worked.
Pulling his head off, I think there was a scene like this in Gantz.
Basically punching or slapping Kizaru's head with the other hand could have knocked him out at least, he didn't even had to kill him ..
So yes. Stupid plot convenience.
Either way it's 3 chapters or so wasted. Flashbacks would have been much better.
A simple squeeze would make Kizaru dead instantly.
Submerging his fist into water and holding him there could have worked.
Pulling his head off, I think there was a scene like this in Gantz.
Basically punching or slapping Kizaru's head with the other hand could have knocked him out at least, he didn't even had to kill him ..
So yes. Stupid plot convenience.
Either way it's 3 chapters or so wasted. Flashbacks would have been much better.
Dragon please, Luffy vs Kizaru conclusion is the same as Luffy vs Lucci conclusion
What? Of course he did
-Luffy was laughing his ass while sending Lucci to sleep and stayed for a certain time in G5 after that
-In comparison Lufy immediately fell on the ground stating that he reached his limit as soon as he punched Kizaru
Drawback :
-Luffy was just shriveled old man like when he got out of G5 against Kaido but managed to repump himself
Kizaru
-Lifeless white eyes corpse that can't lift a finger when about to get his head crushed or his friends are getting brutalized
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Dishonest prick... and you dare claim to only care about narrative. I'm done with your circus
-Luffy was laughing his ass while sending Lucci to sleep and stayed for a certain time in G5 after that
-In comparison Lufy fell stating that he reached his limit as soon as he punched Kizaru
Drawback :
-Luffy was just shriveled old man like when he got out of G5 against Kaido but managed to repump himself
Kizaru
-Lifeless white eyes corpse that can't lift a finger when about to get his head crushed or his friends are getting brutalized
-Luffy was laughing his ass while sending Lucci to sleep and stayed for a certain time in G5 after that
-In comparison Lufy fell stating that he reached his limit as soon as he punched Kizaru
Drawback :
-Luffy was just shriveled old man like when he got out of G5 against Kaido but managed to repump himself
Kizaru
-Lifeless white eyes corpse that can't lift a finger when about to get his head crushed or his friends are getting brutalized
The context is @Dragon777 disagreeing with this:
As I said and I will say it one more time because you are nitpicking random details, the conclusion is the same:
- Luffy reaches his limit
- He defeats his opponent (takes him down temporarily)
- He looks like an old man
- Luffy is back 32 seconds later
Of course that Luffy had it easier against Lucci, of course that Kizaru is stronger than Lucci, Luffy had to use his 2nd strongest attack against Kizaru (+aCoC) when he only used CoA against Lucci... but the conclusion is the same.
Is it? According to admiral headcanon Saturn wasn't even going to fight.
Question is whether SHP can handle fodder marines + VAs and I think they could have handled it well.
I just want to say Saturn stole the show. If SHP lose to anyone then it's a clear loss against Saturn. He's clearly overpowered and stronger than Kizaru by far.
Question is whether SHP can handle fodder marines + VAs and I think they could have handled it well.
I just want to say Saturn stole the show. If SHP lose to anyone then it's a clear loss against Saturn. He's clearly overpowered and stronger than Kizaru by far.
The fight was clearly portrayed as a draw. Both were shown falling at the same time and then later, down at the same time. The entire fight was a circumstantial mess with Luffy trying to land a single hit on Kizaru and bypass his defenses(something mentioned as a factor), and he barely did it with a move Kizaru didn't expect.
The attack is still less than what we've seen Akainu and Kuzan take, so it's pointless agenda to use Kizaru as a baseline in inconsistent mess.
The attack is still less than what we've seen Akainu and Kuzan take, so it's pointless agenda to use Kizaru as a baseline in inconsistent mess.
The people who consider this a draw do it solely based on the fact that both Kizaru and Luffy are laying on the ground.
However, that's not what this is about.
Why people say this is a Luffy win:
- Luffy took down Kizaru (temporarily) with 1 single punch, Luffy is having Nika drawback
- Kizaru was escaping Luffy going after Vegapunk and weaker characters, Luffy ran after him and took him down
- Kizaru's mission was to assassinate Vegapunk and he did not achieve his mission because of Luffy
- Saturn understands why Kizaru failed his mission and is temporarily down: Nika (Luffy)
- Saturn had to land on Egghead to take over Kizaru's mission
Why people say this is a draw:
- Luffy and Kizaru are both laying on the ground
Now take everything together and think about who took the win here.
However, that's not what this is about.
Why people say this is a Luffy win:
- Luffy took down Kizaru (temporarily) with 1 single punch, Luffy is having Nika drawback
- Kizaru was escaping Luffy going after Vegapunk and weaker characters, Luffy ran after him and took him down
- Kizaru's mission was to assassinate Vegapunk and he did not achieve his mission because of Luffy
- Saturn understands why Kizaru failed his mission and is temporarily down: Nika (Luffy)
- Saturn had to land on Egghead to take over Kizaru's mission
Why people say this is a draw:
- Luffy and Kizaru are both laying on the ground
Now take everything together and think about who took the win here.
Robot might just be a Zunesha until it does something I don't expect anything. It's just headcanon and speculation. Just like how people speculated Saturn isn't there to fight.
The problem is Oda decided it's time for G5 to end and it didn't feel natural conclusion. It was very anti-climatic and poor writing style, very disengaging to the reader.
In the Whole Cake Island, Luffy was beaten up by Sanji, held captive for a while, went through an awful lot of damage, including from big Mom. He suffered a lot more but could still fight ...
Same with the Wano arc. Constant fights. Still won.
In fact I am not sure the power leveling was even consistent for Luffy, from the time he first faced Big Mom up to the time he finally beat Kaido. So based on that alone, he might power up mid fight and defeat Saturn too, although it's unrealistic, it's possible, because the plot isn't consistent.
The problem is Oda decided it's time for G5 to end and it didn't feel natural conclusion. It was very anti-climatic and poor writing style, very disengaging to the reader.
In the Whole Cake Island, Luffy was beaten up by Sanji, held captive for a while, went through an awful lot of damage, including from big Mom. He suffered a lot more but could still fight ...
Same with the Wano arc. Constant fights. Still won.
In fact I am not sure the power leveling was even consistent for Luffy, from the time he first faced Big Mom up to the time he finally beat Kaido. So based on that alone, he might power up mid fight and defeat Saturn too, although it's unrealistic, it's possible, because the plot isn't consistent.
Luffy vs Kizaru was Tom & Jerry.
Kizaru was continuously escaping/distracting Luffy to focus on his mission, while Luffy was chasing him.
Luffy had to run after Kizaru in the cartoon run thing that drains him a lot of energy.
Luffy chasing Kizaru drained him a lot of energy, Kizaru travels at light speed.
Luffy turned into a giant to grab Kizaru and throw him into the sea.
Luffy also had to avoid Kizaru's lasers, swallow them occasionally, and so on.
Finally, Luffy had to land one clean hit (his 2nd strongest attack) to take down Kizaru temporarily, that also drained a lot of energy.
So, it's not surprising and not anti-climatic at all that Luffy reached his limit here.
Kizaru was continuously escaping/distracting Luffy to focus on his mission, while Luffy was chasing him.
Luffy had to run after Kizaru in the cartoon run thing that drains him a lot of energy.
Luffy chasing Kizaru drained him a lot of energy, Kizaru travels at light speed.
Luffy turned into a giant to grab Kizaru and throw him into the sea.
Luffy also had to avoid Kizaru's lasers, swallow them occasionally, and so on.
Finally, Luffy had to land one clean hit (his 2nd strongest attack) to take down Kizaru temporarily, that also drained a lot of energy.
So, it's not surprising and not anti-climatic at all that Luffy reached his limit here.
Limit were not reached against Lucci, you got Luffy laughing his ass off, talking to Sentoumaru and moving to the vacuum rocket AFTER he sent him flying, while against Kizaru Luffy was completely immobilized the second he used WSG because he actually reached his limit there. (as he stated himself)
Did not end in the same state either, this is the first time his eyes are white (indicating at least partial unconsciousness) and is completely unable to even lift a finger after G5.
I'm literally stating facts here.
Did not end in the same state either, this is the first time his eyes are white (indicating at least partial unconsciousness) and is completely unable to even lift a finger after G5.
I'm literally stating facts here.