Kingdom General Tier list

[SakazOuki]

Well yeah that's the main struggle so I just went by who I think is most trouble in a war.

Drop one for overall ability only once you get the time

I legit think he might be lol. The way he used his instinctual skills against the Hi Shin Unit was quite impressive. I think there is nothing crazy with saying that as a general Gyou’Un of all people is equal to Keisha and Kochou.

Keisha beat Riboku multiple times in simulation matches, I don’t think that’s something Gyou’Un can achieve
Man was close to becoming a 3GH, that’s huge lol
Another example then, the inbetweeners are all worse generals than Keisha, Kochou, Akou and Kyou’En
Maybe Kansaro is close depending on his performance

Not yet. He will be one eventually but Riboku is constantly performing better than him imo. I can't put them on the same tier yet

How come, Ousen crushed the Gyou campaign, with a strategy he cooked in no time and under fire
And this is Gyou, a city that technically cannot be conquered with a normal siege. I don’t think we’ll ever get a feat as big as this one, all odds were against Qin taking Gyou whether its Riboku’s pre-established defenses for the region, numerical disadvantages, issues with food supply, SHK’s year long plan being rendered useless etc
What else do you require of Ousen lol, this is strategical genius at its best in the manga

 

[RayanOO]

Zenou

Can’t be that high
He isn’t a low top tier. Especially if you put Kyoukai at in betweener

Rei'Ou

Too low

In-betweener
- Kyoukai
- Mouten
- Rei'Ou
- Kan Saro
- Ji Aga
- Kouyoku
- Bajio

Top High Tier
- Kochou
- Keisha
- Raku'a Kan
- Ordo
- Shunsuiju
- Rozo
- Bananji
- Akou
- Kaishibou
- Shukai Gyou’Un
- Chougaryuu
- Kyou'En

Mid High Tier
- Genpou
- Rinko

I have some issue with those tiers I don’t really understand how you placed those guys

 

[God Buggy]

@SakazOuki Alright.

Enough.

Enough.

What is the way?

Who are the two greatest men below the Heavens?

Spoiler: Hara's verb

 

[SakazOuki]

@SakazOuki Alright.

Enough.

Enough.

What is the way?

Who are the two greatest men below the Heavens?

Spoiler: Hara's verb

It could’ve been top 3

Spoiler

He left us too early

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Alright lol. Sry for using OP Tier system but I hate those tiermakers. Just went on doing a list with the characters I had in mind. I probably forgot some important names.

Tell me the worst placements in this list lmao
@Elder Lee Hung @SakazOuki @RayanOO @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Bullet etc

Greatest under the heavens
- Kouen
- Gakuki
- Hakuki
- Riboku
- Ouki
- Renpa

Top Top Tiers
- Rinshoujou
- Ousen
- Shouheikun
- Moubu
- Kanmei
- Shibashou

Mid Top Tiers
- Tou
- Yotanwa
- Karin
- Gokei
- Duke Hyou
- Kanki
- Gohoumei
- Shibasaku
- Koshou

Low Top Tier
- Houken
- Man'U
- Prime Gyou’Un
- Oukotsu
- Kyou
- Gekishin
- Gaimou
- Earl Shi
- Sento'Un
- Shin
- Ouhon
- Zenou

In-betweener
- Kyoukai
- Mouten
- Rei'Ou
- Kan Saro
- Ji Aga
- Kouyoku
- Bajio

Top High Tier
- Kochou
- Keisha
- Raku'a Kan
- Ordo
- Shunsuiju
- Rozo
- Bananji
- Akou
- Kaishibou
- Shukai Gyou’Un
- Chougaryuu
- Kyou'En

Mid High Tier
- Genpou
- Rinko
- Mougou
- Gakujou
- Choutou
- Ranbihaku
- Rinbunkun
- Gakushou
- Danto
- Shiryou/Batei
- Rokuomi
- Sou'Ou/Denrimi
- Futei
- Hakurei

Low High Tier
- Kyou Rei
- Fuuon
- Aisen
- Akakin
- Kanjou
- Rikusen
- Raido
- Gakuei

Alright so looking at this list in more detail:

-The first three tiers aren’t bad, it’s at the low top tier mark where I find confusion lol. I already addressed Zenou there, but there are other strange parts like Gyou’Un being in the same tier as Kyou and Oukotsu. I also would put Oukotsu, Kyou, and Koshou a tier above the likes of Man’U and Sento’Un…Does the Qin 6 title mean nothing to you? These were King Shou’s unstoppable dragons who terrorized all of China lol.

-Mouten being a tier below Shin and Ouhon just seems wrong. He probably isn’t personally slaying generals like they are but his ability to effect the battlefield as a whole is on that same level.

-Rei Ou’s placement is the most disrespectful placement I’ve ever seen lmfao. Keisha’s is a close second.

-Kochou and Ordo are also offensively low. These guys were Great Generals of their states, in the case of Ordo he is literally the number one great General of Yan. Do you really think these guys fall below Kyoukai and Jiaga as commanders…lol

There are some strange placements beyond these but these stood out the most to me.

Also posting my tier list I made last night for you guys:

 

[Owl Ki]

@Owl Ki

I think Shouheikun not being at the top is an odd choice but other than that I don’t see too much that I’m vehemently against. I would probably bump up the Heavenly Kings/Keisha by a tier though.

Aye, maybe I am being too disrespectful to the Heavenly Kings here. Lol. I put three them under Good Generals rather than Great Generals for various reasons initially.

For Genpo it was because he has zero martial ability but he was noted by Renpa to be smart enough to potentially lead Zhao's entire military so maybe he should be GG on smarts alone, similar to Rei Ou.

Kaishibou was the least impressive HK in Sanyou but he was up against a bad opponent for him and Kanki is a slippery sucker for anyone to deal with regardless. Maybe the fact that Kaishibou is the only General to have faced Kanki and not get cornered by him should say something about Big Kai?

Rinko is a great tactician but lacks strength but the dude did smash open Ouki's defences and land a (only inconveniencing) blow on him and survive. Then again, he also got killed by Sanyou Shin.

Kyouen was the stand out Heavenly King for me since he he is both an excellent tactician and a Top Tier fighter. I thought the others by comparison looked a little worse in one area (smarts for Kai, strength for Rinko/Genpo) compared to Kyouen. Also, Renpa having 4 GG level subordinates does seem a bit overkill. Then again, Mougou was walking around with Kanki and Ousen (and Gigakou ) under his wing.

Am I being too conservative with the Heavenly Kings in their overall capabilities as Generals?

@Elder Lee Hung @SakazOuki @MarineHQ @RayanOO @Shanks @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea

 

[MarineHQ]

Keisha beat Riboku multiple times in simulation matches, I don’t think that’s something Gyou’Un can achieve
Man was close to becoming a 3GH, that’s huge lol
Another example then, the inbetweeners are all worse generals than Keisha, Kochou, Akou and Kyou’En
Maybe Kansaro is close depending on his performance

I definitely respect Keisha too but Riboku is the weakest against Instinctual type commanders, that's why he reformed his own centre army to counter that. Gyou’Un has a very good shot to catch RBK off guard too and confuse him with his tactics.

I believe Gyou'Un is more than capable to be a GG that leads an army of several hundred thousand, he really has everything one needs.

How come, Ousen crushed the Gyou campaign, with a strategy he cooked in no time and under fire
And this is Gyou, a city that technically cannot be conquered with a normal siege. I don’t think we’ll ever get a feat as big as this one, all odds were against Qin taking Gyou whether its Riboku’s pre-established defenses for the region, numerical disadvantages, issues with food supply, SHK’s year long plan being rendered useless etc
What else do you require of Ousen lol, this is strategical genius at its best in the manga

The locust strategy was indeed genius and I would never underrate Ousen, let's make that clear. He's so high up with Rinshoujou because I have both scratching the Goat tier but I need to see more of Ousen in the actual battlefield.
He's way to passive for my taste.

Riboku is devising grand schemes such as fortifying Kokuyou to counter Qin, set up traps in Retsubi and Hango, predict a Qin move 6 months prior it happening and position his forces accordingly, built a great defensive wall and finally slay commanders on the battlefield like Makou or take Shin out of the battle.
Also finding weaknesses of formations, that man is everywhere.

Gyou’Un being in the same tier as Kyou and Oukotsu. I also would put Oukotsu, Kyou, and Koshou a tier above the likes of Man’U and Sento’Un…Does the Qin 6 title mean nothing to you? These were King Shou’s unstoppable dragons who terrorized all of China lol.

I totally get Zenou. I'll probably put him down to Rozo just above Bananji and Akou which sounds more appropriate but with this ranking of Gyou’Un, Kyou and Oukotsu I'm totally proud lol.

I think Gyou’Un commanding his army is completely equal to Kyou or Oukotsu and can even beat them. The lowest I'm willing to put him is one above Gaimou which is just below the Qin 6....but like I said Hara wasn't very kind too Kyou or Oukotsu.

Mouten being a tier below Shin and Ouhon just seems wrong. He probably isn’t personally slaying generals like they are but his ability to effect the battlefield as a whole is on that same level.

Just my take but I feel like Mouten's been falling behind recently with the feats that Ouhon and Shin received since Shukai.
Putting him right next to Kyoukai who is just below Shin and Ouhon feels appropriate to me. I've also put Shin and Ouhon so low in their because they shouldn't be too far off from Mouten.

Rei Ou’s placement is the most disrespectful placement I’ve ever seen lmfao. Keisha’s is a close second.

I know Rei'Ou has portrayal but he was so ass lmao.

Kochou and Ordo are also offensively low. These guys were Great Generals of their states, in the case of Ordo he is literally the number one great General of Yan. Do you really think these guys fall below Kyoukai and Jiaga as commanders…lol

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Am I being too conservative with the Heavenly Kings in their overall capabilities as Generals?

Yes but the greatest victim of your underestimation is still Shouheikun. Lol

If versatility is your measuring stick, there is literally not a character in this manga better than Shouheikun. An intellect compared to Riboku and martial might compared to Moubu. Where is he lacking? This dude is an intellect competing with Ousen, Karin, Shunshinkun, Houmei, etc…and even out of his prime he still utterly negs a mountain chieftain like Wategi with complete ease. I don’t think any current Qin 6 can claim to be both a top tier mind and a top tier warrior. Maybe Tou but I’d favor Shouheikun above him in both regards.

It is Shouheikun who you really owe an apology to. Lol

 

[God Buggy]

Imo when it comes to the three famous "unknowns" (though this really isn't the correct term and also Shibashou is seeing the light right now) of the series, Kouen, Tou and Shibashou - they are gonna be extremely high even for top tiers.

- I'm already ranking Shibashou over half of the past Qin Six and the man has barely done anything lol. But Hara put a lot of care in the way (and time) he was hyped imo.

- Tou...Ouki said that Tou wasn't below him, you best believe that. Tou's true power has been hyped for hundreds of chapters right now. I very much think he's the second strongest of the current Qin Six after Ousen.

- Kouen. Suffice to say that I think there's a possibility that Kouen might be stronger than even Riboku himself. As of right now I have to give Riboku the nod but if anyone else has a realistic chance of being that guy right now, it is Kouen.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Am I being too conservative with the Heavenly Kings in their overall capabilities as Generals?

This is why I had the Heavenly Kings only 1 tier below the top guys. Riboku trusted Shinsuiju to take out Yotanwa twice (Shukai and Hango). These guys aren’t scrubs.

Unfortunately my new tier list has to have an in between Wei 7 tier (Wei 7 are barely weaker than Qin 6 and Zhao 3 but whatever lmao).

 

[SakazOuki]

Rinko is a great tactician but lacks strength but the dude did smash open Ouki's defences and land a (only inconveniencing) blow on him and survive. Then again, he also got killed by Sanyou Shin.

Rinko is always underrated compared to the other HK, he was said to be the most dangerous of the 4, and that Renpa always handed him the toughest tasks. On paper the other 3 may look more impressive, but practically speaking Rinko could very well be the best on the field. When Rinko is by your side, you guarantee
-The destruction of the enemy's chain of command by killing a dozen or so worthy commanders
-The ability to break the strongest of defenses
These 2 elements are priceless. Rinko himself is well versed in tactics since he was taught by non other than Genpou, and Shonen crap aside he's a pretty damn good duelist. As for the reasons he lost his duel
-Underestimating Shin -as told by Rinko- had him lose his fingers on the first day
-Shin growing stronger the more competent his opponent is (and borrowing some of that strong ass Ouki weight)
-Even with one hand Rinko would've won if not for outside interferance
Man was toying with both Ouhon and Shin at one point

Riboku is devising grand schemes such as fortifying Kokuyou to counter Qin, set up traps in Retsubi and Hango, predict a Qin move 6 months prior it happening and position his forces accordingly, built a great defensive wall

That's his job as Zhao's chief of military, not something you can use to compare him with generals who only participate on the field lol
Like you can't blame Kochou for losing Kokuyou for example, that's the chief's job
Nevertheless, just because one can be stronger doesn't mean both can't be in the big boys league

I really don't think Ousen -or anyone else at that- is getting a better feat than Gyou, it's just that big of an achievement
Do you think he'll get considerably stronger later on?

 

[SakazOuki]

- Kouen. Suffice to say that I think there's a possibility that Kouen might be stronger than even Riboku himself. As of right now I have to give Riboku the nod but if anyone else has a realistic chance of being that guy right now, it is Kouen.

Aight fuck it I'll delve into some Kou En lore


Where do I start, google not helping much

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Unfortunately my new tier list has to have an in between Wei 7 tier (Wei 7 are barely weaker than Qin 6 and Zhao 3 but whatever lmao).

No no no, more sub tiers

- I'm already ranking Shibashou over half of the past Qin Six and the man has barely done anything lol. But Hara put a lot of care in the way (and time) he was hyped imo.

Bro Shibashou’s sub is already being compared to Moubu. Lol

In my tier list, I struggled with whether or not Shibashou belonged at the bottom of HighQ6/Zhao3 tier, or simply at the top of standard Q6/Zhao3 tier which is where he wound up. But it really just depends on where Hara writes him, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is truly neck and neck with Rinshoujou and Renpa.

Suffice to say that I think there's a possibility that Kouen might be stronger than even Riboku himself.

Maybe as a warrior but overall Riboku is probably still superior. Renpa called Riboku the most dangerous man in China which would seem to mean he is above Kou En, but it is entirely possible that Renpa just meant that Kou En is not “active” like Riboku is and is more of an isolated figure in Chu who isn’t going out and fighting against the other states anymore like Riboku is.

 

[SakazOuki]

Let me know whom I butchered/ overrated
Rows are ranked left to right.
High top tier category looks very sus even to me
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @FutureWarrior123 @Shanks @Cichy @God Buggy @Dark Admiral @Bullet @MarineHQ @Monet @Rumble @Bepo @TheKnightOfTheSea @Blackbeard @RayanOO

 

[Bullet]

I really don't think Ousen -or anyone else at that- is getting a better feat than Gyou, it's just that big of an achievement

I don't think it's the most impressive feat in the series
RBK's feat of killing Kanki and setting up everything seems even more impressive if Shin didn't break out and lead to Kanki trapping RBK which he barely had to survive
Roumu, Retsubi and all that leading to the elimination of more than 120k enemy soldiers + a Qin6 gg while barely losing 10-15k
At Gyou Ousen did a fantastic job at coming up with the grand strategy but on the shukai plains he was absolutely embarrassing and irrevalant until the last day pretty much
RBK had his ass beat on a bunch of occasions and he survived thanks to his subordinates or outside forces as he himself admitted
We already got into this multiple times before but:
1: RBK takes out Ma kou which will naturally lead to the collapse of the entire wing and losing the battle on the first day if Mou ten wasn't there
2: RBK reads and counters Akou's tactics and traps him in a 2v1 that would definitely kill him if not for his subordinates and everyone doing their all to save him
3: he traps Ou hon in a 11v1 which again would make him win the entire battle if not for Ou hon's unit sacrifices to save him
4: after Ousen's only strategy which was a pincer from the right works and he thinks he finally had RBK chekmated Riboku counters it in 5 minutes by using Bananji and Futei to put Ousen in a much worse situation which again he didn't expect or have a counter too and was saved by Ou hon and Mou ten coming to save his ass
5: Riboku finds out the food route and can trap Ousen's starving army but is taken into costudy before he can act
If you read shukai plains alone Ousen doesn't even look in the same caliber as RBK but like a total fraud
Riboku is active and does multiple things that Ousen doesn't expect or have a counter to which could end the war while Ousen's is sitting in his tent saying: right wing will awaken. Hoh.

 

[God Buggy]

Maybe as a warrior but overall Riboku is probably still superior. Renpa called Riboku the most dangerous man in China which would seem to mean he is above Kou En, but it is entirely possible that Renpa just meant that Kou En is not “active” like Riboku is and is more of an isolated figure in Chu who isn’t going out and fighting against the other states anymore like Riboku is.

I honestly don't know how much Renpa actually knows about Kou En lol. I mean he certainly understands that Kouen is a monster (like his convo with Koretsu showed) but as far as rivalries, it was the Qin Six who were Renpa's rivals, they were the ones Renpa missed like Mougou said.
Also, Qin hadn't fought Chu in 20/30 years at the time of the Coalition (save for Oukotsu/Kanmei) and the other states in general are wary to start a full blown war against Chu.

I think Hara has the space to make Kouen > Riboku well justified, should he make this the case.

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

Alright lol. Sry for using OP Tier system but I hate those tiermakers. Just went on doing a list with the characters I had in mind. I probably forgot some important names.

Tell me the worst placements in this list lmao
@Elder Lee Hung @SakazOuki @RayanOO @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @God Buggy @Bullet etc

Greatest under the heavens
- Kouen
- Gakuki
- Hakuki
- Riboku
- Ouki
- Renpa

Top Top Tiers
- Rinshoujou
- Ousen
- Shouheikun
- Moubu
- Kanmei
- Shibashou

Mid Top Tiers
- Tou
- Yotanwa
- Karin
- Gokei
- Duke Hyou
- Kanki
- Gohoumei
- Shibasaku
- Koshou

Low Top Tier
- Houken
- Man'U
- Prime Gyou’Un
- Oukotsu
- Kyou
- Gekishin
- Gaimou
- Earl Shi
- Sento'Un
- Shin
- Ouhon

In-betweener
- Kyoukai
- Mouten
- Rei'Ou
- Kan Saro
- Ji Aga
- Kouyoku
- Bajio

Top High Tier
- Kochou
- Keisha
- Raku'a Kan
- Ordo
- Shunsuiju
- Zenou
- Rozo
- Bananji
- Akou
- Kaishibou
- Shukai Gyou’Un
- Chougaryuu
- Kyou'En

Mid High Tier
- Genpou
- Rinko
- Mougou
- Gakujou
- Choutou
- Ranbihaku
- Rinbunkun
- Gakushou
- Danto
- Shiryou/Batei
- Rokuomi
- Sou'Ou/Denrimi
- Futei
- Hakurei

Low High Tier
- Kyou Rei
- Fuuon
- Aisen
- Akakin
- Kanjou
- Rikusen
- Raido
- Gakuei

I wonder where i would rank Sanji here

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Let me know whom I butchered/ overrated
Rows are ranked left to right.
High top tier category looks very sus even to me
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @FutureWarrior123 @Shanks @Cichy @God Buggy @Dark Admiral @Bullet @MarineHQ @Monet @Rumble @Bepo @TheKnightOfTheSea @Blackbeard @RayanOO

Nah, looks great to me!!

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

I don't know this fella Zenou , but can he hurt exo Sanji ?

 

[Bullet]

Let me know whom I butchered/ overrated
Rows are ranked left to right.
High top tier category looks very sus even to me
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @FutureWarrior123 @Shanks @Cichy @God Buggy @Dark Admiral @Bullet @MarineHQ @Monet @Rumble @Bepo @TheKnightOfTheSea @Blackbeard @RayanOO

There is some people i would move around a bit but looks fine overall to me
I might need to reread YTW part in Gyou arc
Rozo looked like a bum to me but people over here seem to respect him
Above Gyou'Un and Gigakou tho
I think they might even beat him in a duel and that's pretty much the only thing he had going for himself anyway