Versus Battle Is Pain vs Itachi a debate?
- Thread starter soheilhazrat
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Lol, I didn't say both Rinnegans are the same. I simply said Rinnegan can oppose ocular Genjutsu, which is what Sasuke says—he terms it an ability of Rinnegan. No one said opposing Genjutsu is a Sharingan-exclusive ability for us to think Rinnegan can only oppose a Genjustu if it inherited it from the Sharingan, so I don't see why you keep going back to Rinnegan can't do everything that a Sharingan can argument.
Sasuke's Rinnegan can, yes, Sasuke's, not Pain's budget one, if it was a Rinnegan trait in general then Black Zetsu wouldn't have been surprised when Sasuke did it.
Seeing through Genjutsu is explicitly a Sharingan ability, that's fact which I posted, nowhere is it ever said that all Rinnegan can see through Genjutsu, you're using a singular example of Sasuke's vastly superior and unique Rinnegan and trying to apply it to Pain's vastly inferior and rudimentary Rinnegan, a Rinnegan which we already know cannot do Sharingan related things.
You're still as obstinate as ever I see, refusing to concede even when you have no evidence whatsoever, it's sad.
Seeing through Genjutsu is explicitly a Sharingan ability, that's fact which I posted, nowhere is it ever said that all Rinnegan can see through Genjutsu, you're using a singular example of Sasuke's vastly superior and unique Rinnegan and trying to apply it to Pain's vastly inferior and rudimentary Rinnegan, a Rinnegan which we already know cannot do Sharingan related things.
You're still as obstinate as ever I see, refusing to concede even when you have no evidence whatsoever, it's sad.
Zetsu was surprised that Rinnegan could oppose Infinite Tsukiyomi too, which kinda implies he knows it can oppose such jutsu. He didn't just expect it to oppose IT. Again, it was explicitly said, that Sasuke was opposing it due to Rinnegan. While Nagato's Rinnegan probably can't oppose Infinite Tsukiyomi due to it being an inferior version, there really is no reason for us to believe it can't oppose one from an inferior Dojutsu. Again, genjutsu opposing is one of Sharinga's abilities, but it's not Sharingan exclusive.
He isn't just talking about his own Genjutsu. He made a general statement about how a Rinnegan can oppose another Rinnegan.
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He isn't just talking about his own Genjutsu. He made a general statement about how a Rinnegan can oppose another Rinnegan.
Post TS, Kakashi implied that his Mangekyo Sharingan should be able to handle Tsukuyomi despite lack of the Kekkei Genkai and judging Itachi's reaction, that may be true. Subsequently, the Rinnegan might be even more sufficient. Though I'm not sure regarding Izanami.
That aside, Itachi's weapons may still be too much for Pain to handle. Amaterasu would destroy most of the pains; only Gakido (absorption) and Tendo (Shinra Tensei) would counter it. Susanoo armed with the Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade would also be too much. Totsuka could basically just swipe through all the pains, while the Yata Mirror would block any attack.
You could argue about Chibaku Tensei, but what would stop Itachi to immediately target the orb with Amaterasu in its early stage, if not even before the orb started to attract matter in the first place. At this point I'm going ignore the fact that by the end of the series, you could basically outrun Chibaku Tensei..
Nagato vs Itachi would be more interesting. Assuming both are healthy and in their prime, I would probably give it to Itachi as well. Assuming both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are useless, Susanoo with Yata Mirror and the Totsuka Blade should still give him the edge. Being overall more skilled and intelligent should help. He is fast, cunning and a master at using feints.
Well, Sound Genjutsu may work different to ocular Genjutsu against someone with Sharingan or Rinnegan. We know that Tayuya's Genjutsu affected both Sasuke and Itachi, hence they had to free themselves by casting a Genjutsu on each other.
That aside, Itachi's weapons may still be too much for Pain to handle. Amaterasu would destroy most of the pains; only Gakido (absorption) and Tendo (Shinra Tensei) would counter it. Susanoo armed with the Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade would also be too much. Totsuka could basically just swipe through all the pains, while the Yata Mirror would block any attack.
You could argue about Chibaku Tensei, but what would stop Itachi to immediately target the orb with Amaterasu in its early stage, if not even before the orb started to attract matter in the first place. At this point I'm going ignore the fact that by the end of the series, you could basically outrun Chibaku Tensei..
Nagato vs Itachi would be more interesting. Assuming both are healthy and in their prime, I would probably give it to Itachi as well. Assuming both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are useless, Susanoo with Yata Mirror and the Totsuka Blade should still give him the edge. Being overall more skilled and intelligent should help. He is fast, cunning and a master at using feints.
we actually know for a fact Pain can't counter genjutsu with his rinnegan
so how is this an argument
so how is this an argument
He isn't just talking about his own Genjutsu. He made a general statement about how a Rinnegan can oppose another Rinnegan.
Again, he's Madara switching between eye powers to use genjutsu
something Sasuke doesn't even need to do.
"Probably" bruh Sasuke doesn't even know lmao. The most likely explanation is his RinneSharingan can counter it because guess what? It is the exception to every rinnegan.
Again, he's Madara switching between eye powers to use genjutsu
something Sasuke doesn't even need to do.
Again, he's Madara switching between eye powers to use genjutsu
something Sasuke doesn't even need to do.
Except we're told they're Rinnegan applications. You guys just want to confine it all to Sasuke as it doesn't fit your narrative, and then there's the fact that Rinnegan is naturally superior to Sharingan, which makes it very likely that it can oppose Sharingan even if it can't exactly replicate its functionality.
Tayuya's Genjutsu worked on both Sasuke and Itachi, with them having to cast a Genjutsu on each other in order to break it.
Pain couldn't, he wasn't able to see outside of the illusion
The Sharingan genjutsu ability is literally "The All Seeing Eye" and the Rinnegan doesn't have that.
Here see how the pain paths can't perceive the outside world and just die
