Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


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Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
Why in the world did Akou charge towards Riboku in the first place lol

"I'm Akou, bait doesn't work against me....so lemme jump into an obvious trap and risk losing this war that could cost us unification in the first 15 minutes of the battle"
I don’t think anyone on the Qin side would have suspected that Akou’s decision would’ve resulted in losing the entire battle lol.

If anyone deserves the blame for the current state of affairs, it is Ousen. The reason that Riboku’s plan is as hilariously effective as it is is because Ousen has done absolutely nothing to counter him. Ousen failed to see that Riboku was opening him up to face Shibashou, he failed to see Shin (and Ouhon) being taken out the picture was a bad sign, he failed to do literally anything to counter Riboku’s plays. This battle has so far been one gigantic show of dominance from Riboku with Ousen doing nothing to set Qin up for a win.

We’ll see if Ousen can get Qin out of this but the fact of the matter is Ousen should’ve taken some kind of action long before now.
 
I don’t think anyone on the Qin side would have suspected that Akou’s decision would’ve resulted in losing the entire battle lol.

If anyone deserves the blame for the current state of affairs, it is Ousen. The reason that Riboku’s plan is as hilariously effective as it is is because Ousen has done absolutely nothing to counter him. Ousen failed to see that Riboku was opening him up to face Shibashou, he failed to see Shin (and Ouhon) being taken out the picture was a bad sign, he failed to do literally anything to counter Riboku’s plays. This battle has so far been one gigantic show of dominance from Riboku with Ousen doing nothing to set Qin up for a win.

We’ll see if Ousen can get Qin out of this but the fact of the matter is Ousen should’ve taken some kind of action long before now.
Which is why I say Riboku should be in a tier above Ousen for the time being.
 
This could've literally been the case. Riboku is a blond dude with average height and body stature. Finding a double is easy af.
Bafuuji does look kinda like Riboku, ngl. :pepedoffy:
Hmm. They do look rather alike. Suspiciously alike in fact. :sus:

Maybe there is a reason Bananaji left them to die to Kanki while searching for the legendary Ganmon Milk Store. :jay-he:
 
Why in the world did Akou charge towards Riboku in the first place lol

"I'm Akou, bait doesn't work against me....so lemme jump into an obvious trap and risk losing this war that could cost us unification in the first 15 minutes of the battle"
Because Riboku thinking he's a smart little fuck triggered the goat in Gigakou
If you try to play with Gigakou it will only end with your loss. Though Riboku's primary target was Shin, he was also extremely satisfied with killing Akou, but that didn't work naturally.

Akou was stated to be a straight forward man back in Shukai, he simply doesn't fuck around and comes at you with full force
Iron man Gigakou
 
But the target is fucking Riboku lol
Yeah and killing Riboku won't just win the battle, it'll win the entire war. Zhao will crumble without Riboku. That is probably why multiple folk thought it was worth the risk.

I must admit though, I would have preferred it had Shin gotten closer to killing Riboku. Imagine Shin throwing spears and skewering multiple men with each throw and Riboku thinking "Oh shit, this mf is too strong.". The bloke killed Houken, Hara needs to show Shin with some truly beastly looking panels now. Lol.
 
fair.

I wish Hara dedicated a chapter or 2 to Kochou's defenses against Qin.
I'd bet money there was a lot of content cut from Eikyuu, including a Ko Chou flashback.

Is this true though? I don’t think it is. Ousen wasn’t exactly panicking when he learned Akou didn’t ask for permission before attacking Riboku. Ousen was acting like he was confident Akou could pull it off. Lol
What has materially changed since Shukai when Ou Sen declared the campaign to be a battle of wits between himself and Ri Boku? It's also just common sense.

Ou Sen is not a man to show panic, not that there was any reason to when A Kou went after Ri Boku.

Because they are now realizing that Riboku has orchestrated this exact scenario. They aren’t panicking because Ousen is under attack, they are panicking because they now understand that the man who defeated Ouki, Gekishin, and Kanki has specifically planned for Ousen to come under attack in this exact situation. They also know that Shibashou repelled Ordo and his mountain lads with a numerical disadvantage and that Shibashou is now one of the Three Great Heavens.

Their panic is 100% justified.
Concern is justified. Panic is unacceptable, their discipline should be greater than that. It was at at Shukai, when Ou Sen had a tiny unit protecting his HQ from Ri Boku's pincer.

This "ever victorious" Ou Sen Army should be able to hold their nerve when Ou Sen has 50,000 bodies between himself and SBS, who I once again reminded you, had only just made contact.

The man who defeated all those great generals also took massive Ls to their lord, who they consider the greatest in all of China. Their behaviour is amateur hour.

Huh? Lol

Some of the men personally fighting with Shibashou have traded lives with Ousen’s, where is Shibashou’s army dying all around him? His army itself is fine. They just took a 20k pincer from Kanjou and barely flinched, and Shibashou himself is leading the charge for Ousen.
SBS came in with a lot of momentum, enough to tank the Kan Jou's assault and keep going, but now the melee is settling in and his elites are being targeted. Those 20K Gyoku Hou soldiers will get their pound of flesh and then some.

Hell, don't doubt that the HSU is going to come for them with a vengeance.

Ousen’s weakness was foreshadowed by Reiou and Houmei, by King Shou not trusting him, by Renpa calling his prioritization of his own life over Mougou’s “a huge blunder”, and by Heki remarking that Ousen doesn’t even view his own men as allies:

Ousen’s weakness is that he cares about himself and his own life over victory. Ousen would sooner watch 250k Qin men die in vein if it meant he himself survives. It’s been a while since Hara has stressed this about him but we absolutely should not forget that this is the case with him. As soon as the battle becomes unwinnable, Ousen will throw any and everyone under the bus to save his own skin.
Ou Sen values his own life more than that of his subordinates and allies because, after all, what are the deaths of mere soldiers and generals compared to that of a king?

It's not entirely right to conclude Ou Sen values his own life more than anyone else's though. Rumours are he was deeply in love with his wife, and I don't see any would-be-king that only values his own life putting up with that unless he really loved her more than anything. I don't think he has remarried or had any other children since.

His weakness is probably more nuanced that self-preservation. I think Ou Sen shares similarities with both Hou Ken and Sei in wanting to change the world but that deserves it own thread.

To summarise it: Ou Sen doesn't believe in "people" whereas Sei can only push forward with his ambitions because of that belief. That's why Ou Sen could never great a kingdom. If posed the same question by Kan Pi Shi on the nature of man, Ou Sen would probably answer evil and mean it. It actually wouldn't shock me if Ou Sen despises war and violence, but he's just so good at it that he wants to use his talent to brute force change.
 
Because Riboku thinking he's a smart little fuck triggered the goat in Gigakou
If you try to play with Gigakou it will only end with your loss. Though Riboku's primary target was Shin, he was also extremely satisfied with killing Akou, but that didn't work naturally.

Akou was stated to be a straight forward man back in Shukai, he simply doesn't fuck around and comes at you with full force
Iron man Gigakou
Y'all need to at least put a pause on the Gigakou hype when the mfer is the MVP for Zhao. :kobeha:
 
Gigakou's strength defies logic
The true strongest and baddest man in China
:steef:
Lmao,Bro fr built different.
Spoilers below on Hango's tragedy:crazwhat:


COOK MY BOY COOOOOOKK


WE FEASTIN ON THESE QIN AND ZHAO MONKIES!!!!! RAAAAHHHH YAN SUPREMACY RAAAAHHHH!!!
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This could've literally been the case. Riboku is a blond dude with average height and body stature. Finding a double is easy af.
L Riboku racism.

You think it is easy to replace the superior being Riboku with mere humans? Never in my wildest thoughts did I think I would see such an insane statement being made.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
This "ever victorious" Ou Sen Army should be able to hold their nerve when Ou Sen has 50,000 bodies between himself and SBS, who I once again reminded you, had only just made contact.
Again, you are ignoring the broader context which is what spooked Denrimi. Denrimi and Sou’Ou were realizing that Riboku explicitly planned for this moment. That is what scared them, not Ousen coming under attack. This is also the moment where they laid eyes on Shibashou for the first time and got spooked by his martial aura.

To not panic for the safety of your lord when you realize he is exactly where two Great Heavens want him to be is some Gekishin level arrogance lol.

The man who defeated all those great generals also took massive Ls to their lord, who they consider the greatest in all of China. Their behaviour is amateur hour.
How do I put this as nicely as I can lol…to ignore the context of the greater battle and assume Ousen is fine just because he has defeated Riboku in the past,

That is amateur hour.

Again ignoring the fact that it was Shibashou who Ousen was about to face and not Riboku.

SBS came in with a lot of momentum, enough to tank the Kan Jou's assault and keep going, but now the melee is settling in and his elites are being targeted. Those 20K Gyoku Hou soldiers will get their pound of flesh and then some.
The melee is not settling though, and I think you’ll see that if you read the early translations for 784 that we have.

It seems to me that you saw 6-8 of Shibashou’s men dying and then came to the conclusion that Shibashou’s army is being one-sidedly slaughtered. Again, not even remotely close to what is actually happening.

The Kanjou 20k are currently being pushed back despite flanking Shibashou’s army. Kanjou is spooked to all hell right now because even after pincering 30k men with 50k, the Gyoku Hyou are still being pushed back by Seika. It doesn’t appear to be the case at all that the Gyoku Hou is “claiming their pound of flesh”, in fact the opposite is happening.

Shibashou’s men are trading lives with Ousen’s but Shibashou’s charge has yet to be stopped. That is why Ousen’s generals are panicking.

Now on the subject of Akou fleeing his army, I think to an extent Ousen’s generals (Akou in particular) may share in Ousen’s weakness that they prioritize Ousen’s life over actual victory. Those are the kind of men Ousen would want closest to himself right? The men who hold his own live above everything else.

I don’t think Akou’s army will completely collapse, Ousen is one of the Qin 6 and one of his armies collapsing as soon as Akou flees would just be pathetic, but I do think that if Gakushou chooses to remain behind that Akou’s army will sustain huge casualties because they have no leader now.

But we’ll see how this all plays out.
 
Again, you are ignoring the broader context which is what spooked Denrimi. Denrimi and Sou’Ou were realizing that Riboku explicitly planned for this moment. That is what scared them, not Ousen coming under attack. This is also the moment where they laid eyes on Shibashou for the first time and got spooked by his martial aura.
I didn't ignore the broader context, I contextualised what is happening with what has happened at Shukai when Ou Sen's life was in much more imminent danger, to point out how ludicrous it is for Ou Sen's generals to react this way now.

To not panic for the safety of your lord when you realize he is exactly where two Great Heavens want him to be is some Gekishin level arrogance lol.
It's not arrogance, it's discipline. That very same discipline that allows them to trample their own to push forward shouldn't vanish the minute SBS's army comes into contact with Ou Sen's. There is no defending this amateurish conduct.

A Kou got cut bad exposing his back to the enemy and Sou'Ou and Den Ri Mi are panicking and arguing - how do you think that impacts the morale of the soldiers? It is poison. Ou Sen's generals are very much making the situation worse.

How do I put this as nicely as I can lol…to ignore the context of the greater battle and assume Ousen is fine just because he has defeated Riboku in the past,

That is amateur hour.

Again ignoring the fact that it was Shibashou who Ousen was about to face and not Riboku.
At not point did I say Ou Sen would be fine.

At no point did I say he would be fine because he defeated Ri Boku.

You are - again - willfully ignoring the specifics of my argument to accuse me of ignoring context, while also coming up with a ridiculous strawman.

I am the one giving specific examples here. It's pathetic to substitute the argument you can't rebut with one you've made up from thin air.

You put up a weak argument about the intimidation factor, I rebutted with the confidence and belief Ou Sen's generals have in him. I didn't quote "ever victorious" for aesthetic.

I ain't touching the rest of this shit. Engaging with you is pointless, it's just walls of text with no substance.

At some point you're going to have to do your fucking job moderating others @RayanOO instead of singling me out for being uncivil when this asshole keeps debating in bad faith.
 
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