Kansaro vs Rinko

[Rumble]

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it being a shounen or not.

In any fictional story in which the mc grows via combat through several years and encounters new antagonists through several arcs feat inflation happens because the later antagonists need to be strong enough to pose a threat to the mc who keeps getting stronger.

The introducing stronger opponents over time is a shounen battle manga trope that does not apply to Kingdom. "Feat inflation" is a product of the trope we're talking about. There is no feat inflation in Kingdom. Feel free to make the argument.

It does when Sanyou Shin is obviously going to be weaker than any other version of Shin that comes afterwards. Lol.

No, it doesn't. We've known who the best generals and strongest fighters are for 500+ chapters. Shin has become a stronger fighter and better general over time to catch up characters introduced earlier not that. It has not been a case where the most recent characters are stronger than who came before.

Those two aren't early series antagonists, they are recurring major series antagonists. Rinko as an early series single arc antagonist is not comparable to them.

What?

That is completely arbitrary.

Cool, how many of these got killed in a fight by Sanyou Shin within a single early arc?

You're arguing MY POINT.

If you're diminishing Rin Ko for being an "early series character" how does that logic apply all the other "early series characters" that haven't been surpassed since?

My point about Rinko isn't solely about when he was introduced to the story but about when he was killed by a much weaker protagonist.

That Sanyou Shin is weaker than Current Shin doesn't mean he was weak. Shin has never been anything short of a martial monster. It's literally the premise of the first arc when he become Sei's sword used to reclaim his throne.

I wouldn't hold being introduced early as an argument against the martial might of Kaishibou because he is still around to get some more feats and has yet to be defeated by anybody. I would though if Kaishibou was flat out killed by Sanyou Shin/Ouhon/Mouten. Lol.

This makes no sense. The distinction you're making is, same as above, completely arbitrary.

Problem is that numerous characters minus two fingers and nursing a shoulder wound still wouldn't lose to Sanyou Shin in a fight. Gyou'un wouldn't, Batei wouldn't, Gaku Hakukou wouldn't, Zenou wouldn't and I doubt any of the Seika Generals would lose a fight to Sanyou Shin with those injuries either. Joukaryou and Jiaga wouldn't lose for certain, Gakushou probably wouldn't and I doubt Kansaro would.

Gyou'un is stronger Rin Ko. Gaku Haku Kou is probably stronger than both.

BA TEI, are you kidding me? He's weaker than Rin Ko, he wouldn't push Sanyou Shin nearly as far.

Zenou is cute compared to Ran Kai and Sanyou Shin was stronger than the Shin that faced Ran Kai. I'd like his chances,

Sanyou Shin 100% beats the Seika generals. I think you've lost the plot here, literally. The feats Shin had at Sanyou makes him the heavy favourite.

We will see what Kansaro pulls out of his helmet but with all the Seika Generals being a bunch of muscle-bound, bipedal fridge units that seem to rely on martial might over advanced tactics to win battles then I seriously doubt that the bloke being hyped as "Seika's #1 General" is going to be a character that Shin would have defeated in a duel over a dozen arcs ago.

These are platitudes that mean nothing when you put them in the context of Sanyou Shin's actual feats. None of them have shown anything to put them on the level with Rin Ko. None of them has even commanded a larger army despite having multiple arcs and appearances.

You are way off base about too much shit. Context matters, bruh.

Gakushou pretty much low diffed current Mouten, a character that was able to block a blow from Bananji (a bloke that has been compared to Renpa in martial might) and immediately retaliate by taking an eye.

This is ridiculous.

Mou Ten was surrounded and STABBED BY A SPEAR and STILL managed to deflect Gaku Shou's blow.

It's like you're allergic to context.

keep up with Akou, a dude that is Bananji's equal.

 

[Owl Ki]

No, it doesn't. We've known who the best generals and strongest fighters are for 500+ chapters. Shin has become a stronger fighter and better general over time to catch up characters introduced earlier not that. It has not been a case where the most recent characters are stronger than who came before.

Characters he either barely fought (e.g. barely blocking one Renpa blow) or didn't even fight, let alone flat out defeat. I have no idea why you keep comparing Rinko to Renpa and Houken like Shin defeated the latter two on his third campaign. Lel.

What?

That is completely arbitrary.

No it isn't. Rinko was a major arc antagonist for a single arc early in the story. Riboku and Houken are recurring major series antagonist for the majority of the story. They have completely different roles in the story.

Saying that there isn't a difference between them is like saying that Foxy and Kuzan are antagonists of equal importance to the story of One Piece purely because they were both introduced during Long Ring Island Arc. Foxy was only an antagonist for that arc and was defeated by Luffy in a single fight while Kuzan has been a long running, undefeated antagonist. You seeing a difference yet?

You're arguing MY POINT.

If you're diminishing Rin Ko for being an "early series character" how does that logic apply all the other "early series characters" that haven't been surpassed since?

What part of "killed by Sanyou Shin" do you not understand? Going on about recurring characters that have never been fought, let alone defeated by Sanyou Shin is irrelevant.

That Sanyou Shin is weaker than Current Shin doesn't mean he was weak. Shin has never been anything short of a martial monster. It's literally the premise of the first arc when he become Sei's sword used to reclaim his throne.

I never said he was weak but if characters later on in the series are keeping up and trading blows evenly with or even overpowering a much stronger Shin then they are obviously going to be stronger than Rinko.

This makes no sense. The distinction you're making is, same as above, completely arbitrary.

So what are you saying here? That it doesn't matter if Kaishibou went undefeated from Sanyou Arc until a future Chu Arc where he might be dead even with an even stronger Shin than the current one, the fact that he was introduced alongside Rinko, who was defeated by a far weaker Sanyou Shin, must mean that they are dead equal as duellists?

What's this about being arbitrary again?

BA TEI, are you kidding me? He's weaker than Rin Ko, he wouldn't push Sanyou Shin nearly as far.

Batei was physically overpowering Kokuyou Shin by his lonesome, a Shin that had a prolonged fight with Wei Fire Dragon Gaimou and survived. He even crippled Shin's horse from the sheer brute force of his blows. Batei beats Rinko and he beats Sanyou Shin. Lol.

Sanyou Shin 100% beats the Seika generals. I think you've lost the plot here, literally. The feats Shin had at Sanyou makes him the heavy favourite.

So Sanyou Shin undoubtedly beats Joukaryou, a character that was keeping up with and trading blows with an enraged Gian Shin that had beaten Houken by this point?

Geez, I must have missed the moment when Generals were looking at Sanyou Shin plowing through multiple enemy units singlehandedly in seconds and comparing him to Moubu.

These are platitudes that mean nothing when you put them in the context of Sanyou Shin's actual feats. None of them have shown anything to put them on the level with Rin Ko. None of them has even commanded a larger army despite having multiple arcs and appearances.

You are way off base about too much shit. Context matters, bruh.

The ability to command large armies effectively translates into the ability to win 1v1 duels? Guess we should toss Genpo at Houken or Zenou then.

This is ridiculous.

Mou Ten was surrounded and STABBED BY A SPEAR and STILL managed to deflect Gaku Shou's blow.

He barely deflected it. Only just enough to stop his absolute vitals getting sliced.

Switch out Mouten and his minor stab wound with Shin, Ouhon or Kyoukai with a minor stab wound and Gakushou dies. The reason why Mouten performed as he did against Gakushou was simply because Gakushou was stronger than him.

That minor stab wound isn't a big deal in a world of super humans. Put Mouten and Gakushou together with no interruptions and then it probably goes mid diff victory for Shou. Mouten isn't winning.

And? Aren't you the same guy that thought Rokuomi keeping up with Sento Un in a 2v1 was a good feat?

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

But Ouki did swing his glaive at him and Rinko did surivive. On the panel you can clearly see Ouki's arm being in swinging motion.

Where on earth did you get the impression that Ouki swung his Glaive at Rinko lol. Literally he was raising his arm to defend himself because he was surprised that Rinko made it to him. The fact that Rinko made it past Ouki’s guard at all was the point of that hype scene, there is zero evidence Ouki actually got a swing on him. It was a hit and run lol, because Ouki would have one shot him otherwise. Or low diffed him at least.

Why wouldn't Ouki try to kill an enemy in front of him?

Because Rinko immediately ran away. He landed a surprise blow on Ouki, a blow which Ouki attempted to block but failed because Rinko was too skilled, and Rinko immediately ran away.

And Rinko was even contrasted with Shoumou who got killed in an instant just to show he isn't a jobber like this.

The point of that scene was to hype that Rinko was skilled enough to land the blow on Ouki at all where Shoumou could not. The point was not to suggest Rinko could last 60 seconds in an actual duel with Ouki.

Sanyou Shin was weaker then Rinko and won the duel simply due to intervention (landing a blow when Rinko got distracted).

Sure, but Shin wasn’t going to be able to fight Renpa at all. It was a miracle that Shin even survived two blows against Renpa. Shin could very much fight Rinko as a somewhat equal, against Renpa there was just no chance in hell. And Ouki is slightly stronger than Renpa by stats and by feats.

Jyoukaryuu lost the fight after an exchange that was few minutes at most and he is canonically weaker then Jiaga who recently is not doing so well...

Jyoukaryuu got dismounted after he fought Shin as an equal for a few minutes. Whether you like it or not, that puts Jyoukaryuu relative to Bananji and Gyou’Un who would utterly humiliate Rinko. And Jiaga is stronger than that Jyoukaryuu with Kansaro looking pretty relative to Jiaga from feats.

Literally I don’t know how you can argue Rinko lasts 5 minutes in a 1v1 with Kansaro lol. And yeah Shiryu would desecrate Rinko, not sure what series you guys are reading? But Shiryu vs Rinko is not even remotely close, Rinko would be completely demolished.

 

[Rumble]

Characters he either barely fought (e.g. barely blocking one Renpa blow) or didn't even fight, let alone flat out defeat. I have no idea why you keep comparing Rinko to Renpa and Houken like Shin defeated the latter two on his third campaign. Lel.

You're the one arguing Rin Ko being an "early series" character is material. It either is or it isn't.

Obviously it isn't material because the best fighters and generals in the series were all introduced before or around the same time as Rin Ko.

No it isn't. Rinko was a major arc antagonist for a single arc early in the story. Riboku and Houken are recurring major series antagonist for the majority of the story. They have completely different roles in the story.

It doesn't matter if he was used one time or ten times.

That is a completely arbitrary line that has no basis in fact. It's irrational and you're just saying it because you know "early series character" is a really dumb argument, but rather than backing off that dumb premise, you're doubling down by adding another arbitrary qualifier.

Saying that there isn't a difference between them is like saying that Foxy and Kuzan are antagonists of equal importance to the story of One Piece purely because they were both introduced during Long Ring Island Arc. Foxy was only an antagonist for that arc and was defeated by Luffy in a single fight while Kuzan has been a long running, undefeated antagonist. You seeing a difference yet?

I don't want to believe you actually believe this is a good comparison.

What part of "killed by Sanyou Shin" do you not understand? Going on about recurring characters that have never been fought, let alone defeated by Sanyou Shin is irrelevant.

What part of "early series character is a dumb as fuck qualifier" do you not understand?

I never said he was weak but if characters later on in the series are keeping up and trading blows evenly with or even overpowering a much stronger Shin then they are obviously going to be stronger than Rinko.

No, it doesn't, because no manga works that way. No storyteller is going to handcuff themselves by following this rigidity.

So what are you saying here? That it doesn't matter if Kaishibou went undefeated from Sanyou Arc until a future Chu Arc where he might be dead even with an even stronger Shin than the current one, the fact that he was introduced alongside Rinko, who was defeated by a far weaker Sanyou Shin, must mean that they are dead equal as duellists?

"early series" and "recurring" are two dumb arbitrary qualifiers. I thought I was being pretty clear.

Batei was physically overpowering Kokuyou Shin by his lonesome, a Shin that had a prolonged fight with Wei Fire Dragon Gaimou and survived. He even crippled Shin's horse from the sheer brute force of his blows. Batei beats Rinko and he beats Sanyou Shin. Lol.

They were ambushed and Shin was a grounded opponent when Ba Tei "overpowered" him, you dingus.

Ba Tei then couldn't land a single blow on Shin and targeted his horse for that reason.

So Sanyou Shin undoubtedly beats Joukaryou, a character that was keeping up with and trading blows with an enraged Gian Shin that had beaten Houken by this point?

For literally TWO SECONDS and then he had his two arms and fodder jump in while Ga Ro ate dirt.

It's a story told through pictures, you have no goddamn excuse to be this unfamiliar with the context.

The ability to command large armies effectively translates into the ability to win 1v1 duels? Guess we should toss Genpo at Houken or Zenou then.

Rin Ko is a better fighter and a better general.

He barely deflected it. Only just enough to stop his absolute vitals getting sliced.

While getting stabbed, yes.

Switch out Mouten and his minor stab wound with Shin, Ouhon or Kyoukai with a minor stab wound and Gakushou dies. The reason why Mouten performed as he did against Gakushou was simply because Gakushou was stronger than him.

We have seen Shin react to identical attacks from fodder and he is built of far tougher stuff than Mou Ten.

That minor stab wound isn't a big deal in a world of super humans. Put Mouten and Gakushou together with no interruptions and then it probably goes mid diff victory for Shou. Mouten isn't winning.

It doesn't matter if the wound isn't fatal. They're not fucking robots, they're going to react when they get hit when they don't expect to be hit, especially when it's a stab wound.

Mou Ten had no trouble deflecting Kou Yoku's blows and damn near killed BNJ in a single shot. Gaku Shou is food to him.

Aren't you the same guy that thought Rokuomi keeping up with Sento Un in a 2v1 was a good feat?

No.

 

[Pirao]

Rinko in duel for sure. I'll withhold judgement on army vs army until we see more of Kansaro, but it's not looking good.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Jyoukaryuu one shots Rinko let alone Kansaro.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

@Blackbeard once again I maintain that Renpa is the Shanks of the Kingdom fandom lmfao. People really do drugs when it comes to Renpa and his gang. Rinko vs Chougaryuu was an insulting enough discussion, now these people think Kansaro wouldnt one shot Rinko 100/100 times lol.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

@Blackbeard once again I maintain that Renpa is the Shanks of the Kingdom fandom lmfao. People really do drugs when it comes to Renpa and his gang. Rinko vs Chougaryuu was an insulting enough discussion, now these people think Kansaro wouldnt one shot Rinko 100/100 times lol.

Renpa has nothing to do with it lol. We just know the facts.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Kansaro wins. Seika generals are exceptionally strong. Jyoukaryu did very well against bloodlusted Hi Shin unit and fatally cut Zenou. Gakushou beat Mouten and fought on par against Akou. Kansaro is stronger than these people.

 

[Blackbeard]

@Blackbeard once again I maintain that Renpa is the Shanks of the Kingdom fandom lmfao. People really do drugs when it comes to Renpa and his gang. Rinko vs Chougaryuu was an insulting enough discussion, now these people think Kansaro wouldnt one shot Rinko 100/100 times lol.

Let's get this out of the way first; Kansaro definitely defeats Rinko.

Now if you ever repeat the cardinal sin of comparing Hara's impeccable portrayal of a real historical figure to any rubbish written by Oda, I will personally castrate you.

 

[Jailer]

Kansaro wins for sure

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Kansaro should have better leadership as the first general of Seika, intelligence wise, we don't know how smart Kansaro are while Rinko got trained by Geppou personally (who is stated to be capable of commanding the entire Zhao military, so we're talking about Shouheikun level portrayal here which is insanely impressive), so for the sake of it, I'll give intelligence to Rinko slightly.

Strength wise, Kansaro does have martial hype but so is Rinko, breaking through Ouki's defense, land a hit, and given the most important tasks among the Heavenly Kings and stated to be the most dangerous HK. And being Renpa's flying spear, his martial might is nothing to sneeze at.

So in conclusion, Kansaro has better leadership and the Seika army should be overall stronger (plus their high morale) which can decimate Rinko's army in a head-on clash. However, Rinko's Rindou is unstoppable. The moment Rinko breaks through Kansaro's army defense, he can lure out Kansaro in a duel and beat him around high diff.