Controversial General Political Discussion

[Gaimon The Pirate]

What he has to do with deep state?

In my opinion is impossible to be unbiased in anything. We can work hard to be as most unbiased as we can but we will never reach 100%. And there is no problem with that. Just don't blindly believe in everything you say without understanding the issue better.

Media corporation, specialyl big ones, are just part of the theater that keeps going. They fight together against each other on bullshit problems while the lower classes cannot afford basic human decency, as it is:

• Owning a house
• Living without debt
• Affordable access to medical care

These should be the primary rights of a citizen, and nothing should come before these. Otherwise you are not a citizen but a slave.

 

[Herrera95]

Media corporation, specialyl big ones, are just part of the theater that keeps going. They fight together against each other on bullshit problems while the lower classes cannot afford basic human decency, as it is:

• Owning a house
• Living without debt
• Affordable access to medical care

These should be the primary rights of a citizen, and nothing should come before these. Otherwise you are not a citizen but a slave.

I partly agree with you. Yes those 3 topics are very important and should be way more debated than gender shit for example. But people need to remind what is REAL LIFE and REAL RIGHTS.

No one work for free. Nothing is free on this planet. You have to work to have everything done. Since the beginning of ages is like that. And our life is much better now because of technology that allowed us to be more productive and have more rest during days, week, month, year...

In ancient time we had to work every fucking day through the most part of the day. Otherwise we would starve. There was no fucking weekend, vacation, 8h schedule.

When people forget that SOMEONE needs to work so you can live they come with bullshit like FREE (that are never free) medical healthcare, MINIMUM WAGE (that is a racist law used to prevent slaves from getting jobs and remaining slaves/poor) and things like that.

So everytime a politician invents of giving population a certain "benefit" be sure someone will pay for that.

I don't have enough knowledge to talk about USA problems you described I just know all 3 of them are caused by inflation from governaments that spent more than tax payers can supply them.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I partly agree with you. Yes those 3 topics are very important and should be way more debated than gender shit for example. But people need to remind what is REAL LIFE and REAL RIGHTS.

No one work for free. Nothing is free on this planet. You have to work to have everything done. Since the beginning of ages is like that. And our life is much better now because of technology that allowed us to be more productive and have more rest during days, week, month, year...

In ancient time we had to work every fucking day through the most part of the day. Otherwise we would starve. There was no fucking weekend, vacation, 8h schedule.

When people forget that SOMEONE needs to work so you can live they come with bullshit like FREE (that are never free) medical healthcare, MINIMUM WAGE (that is a racist law used to prevent slaves from getting jobs and remaining slaves/poor) and things like that.

So everytime a politician invents of giving population a certain "benefit" be sure someone will pay for that.

I don't have enough knowledge to talk about USA problems you described I just know all 3 of them are caused by inflation from governaments that spent more than tax payers can supply them.

Nothing should be free, but a person on MINIMAL wage should have basic access to MINIMAL POSSIBLE way of living, which should include a MINIMUM level of wellness.
And I believe that in this minimum all those 3 belongs.
I cannot believe we accept to live in a world where if you live minimal wage you cannot afford an house, you live week by week and if you get sick you end up in debt for life or dead.

I should add that living properties, flats or houses, should not be allowed to be owned by corporations as LIVING WITH A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD should not be something where people should be profiting on.
Of course I am not talking about an attic in manhattan, but a normal one bedroom house/flat for a single person with a decent square footing.
Anything above is of course a luxury, we could say. Not a basic need.

 

[Herrera95]

Nothing should be free, but a person on MINIMAL wage should have basic access to MINIMAL POSSIBLE way of living, which should include a MINIMUM level of wellness.
And I believe that in this minimum all those 3 belongs.
I cannot believe we accept to live in a world where if you live minimal wage you cannot afford an house, you live week by week and if you get sick you end up in debt for life or dead.

I should add that living properties, flats or houses, should not be allowed to be owned by corporations as LIVING WITH A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD should not be something where people should be profiting on.
Of course I am not talking about an attic in manhattan, but a normal one bedroom house/flat for a single person with a decent square footing.
Anything above is of course a luxury, we could say. Not a basic need.

That's what I'm saying. You are ignoring people have to work to afford things. Even to eat, to have good health, to have a roof to sleep at night...

If you put a minimal wage you are essentially unemployee people who can't produce that enough to be paid a minimal wage. Luckily USA doesn't have big problems with unemployment but here in Brazil we have high rates of unemployement and removing minimal wage would certainly make things better.

Like I said minimal wage was meant to avoid slaves getting jobs. In past even children used to work because it was necessary. Poor people don't have choice but work. Kids that lives on street HAVE to work. In the past if you get out of school around 18 yo you were above average and could get a job that would afford you all those things you said. Time changed. Now you need more skills to be productive enough to afford those things. Much more people now completed school than in the past. All those things also helps the price of things to get higher meanwhile technology will always work in the other way to make things gets cheaper since it increases productivity.

There is no magical way to give every single human of Earth a job with 18 years old with a minimal wage where he can afford living in a house of his own, with good health and whatever you make up with. And no those are no basic need. Everyone can live with their parents until they afford enough to live on their own. Minimal wage is not for someone that have 10 years of experience it is for the ones without any experience at all.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

That's what I'm saying. You are ignoring people have to work to afford things. Even to eat, to have good health, to have a roof to sleep at night...

If you put a minimal wage you are essentially unemployee people who can't produce that enough to be paid a minimal wage. Luckily USA doesn't have big problems with unemployment but here in Brazil we have high rates of unemployement and removing minimal wage would certainly make things better.

Like I said minimal wage was meant to avoid slaves getting jobs. In past even children used to work because it was necessary. Poor people don't have choice but work. Kids that lives on street HAVE to work. In the past if you get out of school around 18 yo you were above average and could get a job that would afford you all those things you said. Time changed. Now you need more skills to be productive enough to afford those things. Much more people now completed school than in the past. All those things also helps the price of things to get higher meanwhile technology will always work in the other way to make things gets cheaper since it increases productivity.

There is no magical way to give every single human of Earth a job with 18 years old with a minimal wage where he can afford living in a house of his own, with good health and whatever you make up with. And no those are no basic need. Everyone can live with their parents until they afford enough to live on their own. Minimal wage is not for someone that have 10 years of experience it is for the ones without any experience at all.

A minimal wage is a wage, is not a benefit.
People need to work to earn a wage.
I don't see why you are saying I am ignorinjg that people have to work to afford, as I never said anyone should get free stuff or benefits.

Minimal wage is not a solution when you have a situation like today where only enstablished multi million company canafford to pay it, while smaller merchat (aka the capitalist dream of the self made man) need to pay cash or avoid taxes to afford it.

I was talking more about states like UK and US and most of the "richest" west coutnries, not Brazil, hence our misunderstanding.

 

[Herrera95]

A minimal wage is a wage, is not a benefit.
People need to work to earn a wage.
I don't see why you are saying I am ignorinjg that people have to work to afford, as I never said anyone should get free stuff or benefits.

Minimal wage is not a solution when you have a situation like today where only enstablished multi million company canafford to pay it, while smaller merchat (aka the capitalist dream of the self made man) need to pay cash or avoid taxes to afford it.

I was talking more about states like UK and US and most of the "richest" west coutnries, not Brazil, hence our misunderstanding.

The employer tells what you are worth being paid. Not the state. When the state does that it creates unemployement which was the purpose of minimal wage law.

There are two things being debating here. First of all the idea of minimal wage that is not to afford living alone by himself in good conditions but prevent slaves to be employed like I explained. And the other thing is the idea of minimal wage being enough to afford all those things you are saying.

You want minimal wage to afford all those things? This is easily done. Just raise the minimal wage. What will happen? Unemployement.

Now can we drop this idea of minimal wage should afford all those things you are saying and focus on how to make life better?

 

[Logiko]

Serious? I found out about this today lol, I still don't know what caused all this

I'm not an expert (its a bit complicated it seems) but mainly because farmers can't really live from their jobs right now. Sadly, they are mostly anti leftist and are therefore following liberal unions that are not in their best interests.. But I guess they will understand that in the future.

(17) 13 UNRWA employees were associated with Hamas' October 7 attacks, Israeli intelligence summary alleges (cnn.com)

Yup, and they provided no evidences of that. And its important, evidences, when it comes to this kind of issues.

https://truthout.org/articles/repor...dossier-to-support-israels-unrwa-allegations/

No...

Liberal is a strange term in USA. That's why I always address myself as libertarian instead while here in Brazil we wouldn't have such distinction.

No. Liberalism is a specific type of ideology. Its based on notion that liberty creates progress and that individual right are extremely important. Its an individualistic ideology and one of the key elements of capitalism. Its a social but also economic ideology.

This is why, anyone who is a liberal is not a leftist.

The only ones who truly fights against capitalism are the low class activists that have no idea what they are doing

Actually they do. You are just incapable of seeing that ;)

All others who say to be fighting against capitalism actually just want capitalism for themselves while making the others poor and miserable.

Basically liberals.

The left exist way before communists so you don't have to be one to be left.

Indeed. I'm a leftist who fights capitalist and I'm not a communist.

But when you agree with liberalism and therefore capitalism, you are a rightist/extrem centrist.

you're beyond help :hapnoel::hapnoel:

:cheers:

Tucker and Fox news are part of the Deep State and people like Peterson or Shapiro and similar "Right Wing" champions are the controlled opposition.

There is no such thing as "deep state" and there is no such thing as far right opposition. Far rightist are not against the system, they profit from it.

Fox is funded by Rupert Murdoch that’s enough to tell you that .

I think news channels are heavily biased . I don’t particularly believe any news channel not even CNN report unbiased report . They all have peddled fake news many times

News channel and journalism is not supposed to be unbiased. Its because its biased against the power that journalism is the a problem to the system.

The problem is that there is no more real journalist against the system today. CNN and co are pro power and liberals and FOX NEWS and co are far rights propagandist. If you want real antisystem journalism, you need to check on private channels or youtube.

Russian collusion makes very lititle sense

On the contrary, Putin and is far right authoritarian gov profit of the far right propaganda of liberal countries. Its amazing to create discord.

Far right in those country are just following Putin because he has the same values.

There was no fucking weekend, vacation, 8h schedule.

Actually in some places, work hours were pretty similar in ancient times. Its a common historical bias to think that because we live in the future, everything is better now. For some things, its not really the case.

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillma...ked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html

Check the paragraph on hunter gatherer societies to understand the scale of that bias.

When people forget that SOMEONE needs to work so you can live they come with bullshit like FREE (that are never free) medical healthcare, MINIMUM WAGE (that is a racist law used to prevent slaves from getting jobs and remaining slaves/poor) and things like that.

"Someone" doesn't means "just a few people" and "Work" doesn't necessaraly means 10 or 8 hours a day. In the future, our working hours will be greatly diminished mate.

There is no magical way to give every single human of Earth a job with 18 years

That's why we need a better system. And it can only pass through the common solidarity.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

How so?

you think the right didn't move further to the right? That's mad biased

 

[Natalija]

you think the right didn't move further to the right? That's mad biased

I do think they did, but you just said the image made no sense as an empty comment with no reasoning, so I wanted to see what you meant.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

I do think they did, but you just said the image made no sense as an empty comment with no reasoning, so I wanted to see what you meant.

I see
The right vs left nonsense is dumb in general, what isbright and whatvis left keeps changing
Over the past decade or two the left appropriated some values of the right actually and the other way round as well

 

[Toby D. Dog]

What elements ?

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing. The cultural left tends to exclude others if they don't agree 100% with them. It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, that's part of being human. Also, I've seen some leftists rail against free speech, which I don't agree with whatsoever.
[automerge]1707334453[/automerge]

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing. The cultural left tends to exclude others if they don't agree 100% with them. It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, that's part of being human. Also, I've seen some leftists rail against free speech, which I don't agree with whatsoever.

Bare in mind this is not the entire left. I still believe most of them try to be welcoming of disagreements and new people.

 

[Herrera95]

Yup, and they provided no evidences of that. And its important, evidences, when it comes to this kind of issues.

https://truthout.org/articles/repor...dossier-to-support-israels-unrwa-allegations/

Yeah all those countries cut their funding based on no evidence

Which countries have cut funding to UNRWA, and why? | News | Al Jazeera

No. Liberalism is a specific type of ideology. Its based on notion that liberty creates progress and that individual right are extremely important. Its an individualistic ideology and one of the key elements of capitalism. Its a social but also economic ideology.

This is why, anyone who is a liberal is not a leftist.

Yes but in USA they call liberals the ones of the left that focus on social liberty and customs but not on economic liberty. Actually they don't even defend social liberty and customs they just want to everyone else to change and accept what they believe (the whole gender ideology).

That's why I differ liberal from libertarian that would be the real warrior of freedom.

Actually they do. You are just incapable of seeing that ;)

No they don't. They just follow leaders and do as they said without having a real knowledge of the world. Not surprisingly they are often poor and uneducated.

Indeed. I'm a leftist who fights capitalist and I'm not a communist.

But when you agree with liberalism and therefore capitalism, you are a rightist/extrem centrist.

If you are not capitalist or communist what you are?

Not sure about it but I don't care either. Is not very important to say what is left/right extreme or not. My concern is much more about Liberty x Estate.

Basically liberals.

Yes. The ones USA calls liberals aka leftists. Not libertarians like me.

Actually in some places, work hours were pretty similar in ancient times. Its a common historical bias to think that because we live in the future, everything is better now. For some things, its not really the case.

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillma...ked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html

Check the paragraph on hunter gatherer societies to understand the scale of that bias.

Everything is better now. People in the past used to die because of flu, cold. Almost no one dies from it nowadays (just to not say no one since I can't be sure about it).

Also check this

The Myth of a Carefree Prehistoric Lifestyle | The New Republic

"Except that’s just the start. As criticism emerged, Lee revisited his math. Recalculating, he offered a slightly higher average: “about 20 hours.” Lee further conceded that “it would be misleading” to use that figure on its own, as it counted only hours spent procuring food (the same is true of Sahlins’s figures). Of course, foragers must do other things to make their living as well: craft tools, butcher meat, grind nuts, draw water. Adding such tasks to the food quest, Lee concluded that Ju/’hoansi foragers had a 42.3-hour workweek, which is longer than the current 35-hour U.S. weekly average for most paid work. "

Also your article is wrong about unions being responsible for the changing in the 14-16 daily work hours we had previously. It was the Ford system that changed that. CAPITALISM. Not fucking union.

"Someone" doesn't means "just a few people" and "Work" doesn't necessaraly means 10 or 8 hours a day. In the future, our working hours will be greatly diminished mate.

YES! Because of fucking TECHNOLOGY nothing else. If people stop to regulate fucking AI and going against with making unrational fear of it through society we could get there much quicker. IT is AI that will get us free (or pretty fucking close) to never work again in our lives.

That's why we need a better system. And it can only pass through the common solidarity.

The best system is freedom. Let people work and take care of their lives. Governaments only make things worse when putting their finger on economy.

People ARE solidary. People donate what they have and not have to help others. Even billionaires are like that. What you and the left wing think about capitalists being a bunch of heartless that couldn't care less about human beings are totally wrong.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Yeah all those countries cut their funding based on no evidence

You know what's the best thing about evidence?
That it is evident.
It proves itself, it doesn't need an advocate as it's a manifestation of truth.

That's why when people make a claim need to show evidence.
And evidence shown is 0, nada, nothing, zero absolute.
So yeah, as long as it's just claims, it's worth nothing.
It's like when C4N makes his absurd claims, worth nothing.
And you defend the undefendable as why would you defend somebody that makes claims with no proof.

 

[Herrera95]

You know what's the best thing about evidence?
That it is evident.
It proves itself, it doesn't need an advocate as it's a manifestation of truth.

That's why when people make a claim need to show evidence.
And evidence shown is 0, nada, nothing, zero absolute.
So yeah, as long as it's just claims, it's worth nothing.
It's like when C4N makes his absurd claims, worth nothing.
And you defend the undefendable as why would you defend somebody that makes claims with no proof.

Again. All those nations are cutting their fundings based on 0 evidence. You want to bet on that?

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Again. All those nations are cutting their fundings based on 0 evidence. You want to bet on that?

If there is evidence why are they not showing it?
And I would like to remind you that the USA fabricated proof in the most blatant way and the whole NATO started the IRAQ war on a lie.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Connecticut is eliminating all medical debt. This will help a lot of people.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

There is no magical way to give every single human of Earth a job with 18 years old

There is, its called self sufficient living, "jobs" should not even be a thing

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing. The cultural left tends to exclude others if they don't agree 100% with them. It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, that's part of being human. Also, I've seen some leftists rail against free speech, which I don't agree with whatsoever.

That's what I was talking about->

I see The right vs left nonsense is dumb in general, what isbright and whatvis left keeps changing Over the past decade or two the left appropriated some values of the right actually and the other way round as well

[automerge]1707339980[/automerge]

The best system is freedom. Let people work and take care of their lives. Governaments only make things worse when putting their finger on economy.

Free market=slave trade Always remember. Humans need a certain degree of regulation and rules in society or we just abuse and kill each other over bs reasons

Capitalism is in a stranglehold rn. The Oligarchs and Big Tech etc control things as of rn. They all hold too much power that it's basically a monopoly.

You really struggle with your definitions. Oligarchs and big tech are the direct result of the capitalistic system

This usually happens because of regulations. Governament always have a hand helping to creating monopolies.

Oh god NO it's the OPPOSITE

 

[Toby D. Dog]

You really struggle with your definitions. Oligarchs and big tech are the direct result of the capitalistic system

These guys don't understand what the system is in the first place. They've been brain washed into thinking corporations (which are the basis for capitalism itself) are somehow socialist cabals.

 

[Herrera95]

If there is evidence why are they not showing it?
And I would like to remind you that the USA fabricated proof in the most blatant way and the whole NATO started the IRAQ war on a lie.

Israel is not USA and doesn't half have influence of USA while being pressured by many countries to stop the war.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Israel is not USA and doesn't half have influence of USA while being pressured by many countries to stop the war.

Lol what?
You know how much money USA send to israel every year?
Israel amd USA are their own best allies.
And USA rules NATO.
And again, you did not answer the question. Where is the evidence?