Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Serious? I found out about this today lol, I still don't know what caused all this

I'm not an expert (its a bit complicated it seems) but mainly because farmers can't really live from their jobs right now. Sadly, they are mostly anti leftist and are therefore following liberal unions that are not in their best interests.. But I guess they will understand that in the future.

(17) 13 UNRWA employees were associated with Hamas' October 7 attacks, Israeli intelligence summary alleges (cnn.com)

Yup, and they provided no evidences of that. And its important, evidences, when it comes to this kind of issues.

https://truthout.org/articles/repor...dossier-to-support-israels-unrwa-allegations/

No...

Liberal is a strange term in USA. That's why I always address myself as libertarian instead while here in Brazil we wouldn't have such distinction.

No. Liberalism is a specific type of ideology. Its based on notion that liberty creates progress and that individual right are extremely important. Its an individualistic ideology and one of the key elements of capitalism. Its a social but also economic ideology.

This is why, anyone who is a liberal is not a leftist.

The only ones who truly fights against capitalism are the low class activists that have no idea what they are doing

Actually they do. You are just incapable of seeing that ;)

All others who say to be fighting against capitalism actually just want capitalism for themselves while making the others poor and miserable.

Basically liberals.

The left exist way before communists so you don't have to be one to be left.

Indeed. I'm a leftist who fights capitalist and I'm not a communist.

But when you agree with liberalism and therefore capitalism, you are a rightist/extrem centrist.

you're beyond help

:cheers:

Tucker and Fox news are part of the Deep State and people like Peterson or Shapiro and similar "Right Wing" champions are the controlled opposition.

There is no such thing as "deep state" and there is no such thing as far right opposition. Far rightist are not against the system, they profit from it.

Fox is funded by Rupert Murdoch that’s enough to tell you that .

I think news channels are heavily biased . I don’t particularly believe any news channel not even CNN report unbiased report . They all have peddled fake news many times

News channel and journalism is not supposed to be unbiased. Its because its biased against the power that journalism is the a problem to the system.

The problem is that there is no more real journalist against the system today. CNN and co are pro power and liberals and FOX NEWS and co are far rights propagandist. If you want real antisystem journalism, you need to check on private channels or youtube.

Russian collusion makes very lititle sense

On the contrary, Putin and is far right authoritarian gov profit of the far right propaganda of liberal countries. Its amazing to create discord.

Far right in those country are just following Putin because he has the same values.

There was no fucking weekend, vacation, 8h schedule.

Actually in some places, work hours were pretty similar in ancient times. Its a common historical bias to think that because we live in the future, everything is better now. For some things, its not really the case.

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillma...ked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html

Check the paragraph on hunter gatherer societies to understand the scale of that bias.

When people forget that SOMEONE needs to work so you can live they come with bullshit like FREE (that are never free) medical healthcare, MINIMUM WAGE (that is a racist law used to prevent slaves from getting jobs and remaining slaves/poor) and things like that.

"Someone" doesn't means "just a few people" and "Work" doesn't necessaraly means 10 or 8 hours a day. In the future, our working hours will be greatly diminished mate.

There is no magical way to give every single human of Earth a job with 18 years

That's why we need a better system. And it can only pass through the common solidarity.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

How so?

you think the right didn't move further to the right? That's mad biased

 

[Natalija]

you think the right didn't move further to the right? That's mad biased

I do think they did, but you just said the image made no sense as an empty comment with no reasoning, so I wanted to see what you meant.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

I do think they did, but you just said the image made no sense as an empty comment with no reasoning, so I wanted to see what you meant.

I see
The right vs left nonsense is dumb in general, what isbright and whatvis left keeps changing
Over the past decade or two the left appropriated some values of the right actually and the other way round as well

 

[Toby D. Dog]

What elements ?

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing. The cultural left tends to exclude others if they don't agree 100% with them. It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, that's part of being human. Also, I've seen some leftists rail against free speech, which I don't agree with whatsoever.

Post automatically merged: Feb 7, 2024

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing. The cultural left tends to exclude others if they don't agree 100% with them. It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, that's part of being human. Also, I've seen some leftists rail against free speech, which I don't agree with whatsoever.

Bare in mind this is not the entire left. I still believe most of them try to be welcoming of disagreements and new people.

 

[Herrera95]

Yup, and they provided no evidences of that. And its important, evidences, when it comes to this kind of issues.

https://truthout.org/articles/repor...dossier-to-support-israels-unrwa-allegations/

Yeah all those countries cut their funding based on no evidence

Which countries have cut funding to UNRWA, and why? | News | Al Jazeera

No. Liberalism is a specific type of ideology. Its based on notion that liberty creates progress and that individual right are extremely important. Its an individualistic ideology and one of the key elements of capitalism. Its a social but also economic ideology.

This is why, anyone who is a liberal is not a leftist.

Yes but in USA they call liberals the ones of the left that focus on social liberty and customs but not on economic liberty. Actually they don't even defend social liberty and customs they just want to everyone else to change and accept what they believe (the whole gender ideology).

That's why I differ liberal from libertarian that would be the real warrior of freedom.

Actually they do. You are just incapable of seeing that ;)

No they don't. They just follow leaders and do as they said without having a real knowledge of the world. Not surprisingly they are often poor and uneducated.

Indeed. I'm a leftist who fights capitalist and I'm not a communist.

But when you agree with liberalism and therefore capitalism, you are a rightist/extrem centrist.

If you are not capitalist or communist what you are?

Not sure about it but I don't care either. Is not very important to say what is left/right extreme or not. My concern is much more about Liberty x Estate.

Basically liberals.

Yes. The ones USA calls liberals aka leftists. Not libertarians like me.

Actually in some places, work hours were pretty similar in ancient times. Its a common historical bias to think that because we live in the future, everything is better now. For some things, its not really the case.

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillma...ked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html

Check the paragraph on hunter gatherer societies to understand the scale of that bias.

Everything is better now. People in the past used to die because of flu, cold. Almost no one dies from it nowadays (just to not say no one since I can't be sure about it).

Also check this

The Myth of a Carefree Prehistoric Lifestyle | The New Republic

"Except that’s just the start. As criticism emerged, Lee revisited his math. Recalculating, he offered a slightly higher average: “about 20 hours.” Lee further conceded that “it would be misleading” to use that figure on its own, as it counted only hours spent procuring food (the same is true of Sahlins’s figures). Of course, foragers must do other things to make their living as well: craft tools, butcher meat, grind nuts, draw water. Adding such tasks to the food quest, Lee concluded that Ju/’hoansi foragers had a 42.3-hour workweek, which is longer than the current 35-hour U.S. weekly average for most paid work. "

Also your article is wrong about unions being responsible for the changing in the 14-16 daily work hours we had previously. It was the Ford system that changed that. CAPITALISM. Not fucking union.

"Someone" doesn't means "just a few people" and "Work" doesn't necessaraly means 10 or 8 hours a day. In the future, our working hours will be greatly diminished mate.

YES! Because of fucking TECHNOLOGY nothing else. If people stop to regulate fucking AI and going against with making unrational fear of it through society we could get there much quicker. IT is AI that will get us free (or pretty fucking close) to never work again in our lives.

That's why we need a better system. And it can only pass through the common solidarity.

The best system is freedom. Let people work and take care of their lives. Governaments only make things worse when putting their finger on economy.

People ARE solidary. People donate what they have and not have to help others. Even billionaires are like that. What you and the left wing think about capitalists being a bunch of heartless that couldn't care less about human beings are totally wrong.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Yeah all those countries cut their funding based on no evidence

You know what's the best thing about evidence?
That it is evident.
It proves itself, it doesn't need an advocate as it's a manifestation of truth.

That's why when people make a claim need to show evidence.
And evidence shown is 0, nada, nothing, zero absolute.
So yeah, as long as it's just claims, it's worth nothing.
It's like when C4N makes his absurd claims, worth nothing.
And you defend the undefendable as why would you defend somebody that makes claims with no proof.

 

[Herrera95]

You know what's the best thing about evidence?
That it is evident.
It proves itself, it doesn't need an advocate as it's a manifestation of truth.

That's why when people make a claim need to show evidence.
And evidence shown is 0, nada, nothing, zero absolute.
So yeah, as long as it's just claims, it's worth nothing.
It's like when C4N makes his absurd claims, worth nothing.
And you defend the undefendable as why would you defend somebody that makes claims with no proof.

Again. All those nations are cutting their fundings based on 0 evidence. You want to bet on that?

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Again. All those nations are cutting their fundings based on 0 evidence. You want to bet on that?

If there is evidence why are they not showing it?
And I would like to remind you that the USA fabricated proof in the most blatant way and the whole NATO started the IRAQ war on a lie.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Connecticut is eliminating all medical debt. This will help a lot of people.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

There is no magical way to give every single human of Earth a job with 18 years old

There is, its called self sufficient living, "jobs" should not even be a thing

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing. The cultural left tends to exclude others if they don't agree 100% with them. It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, that's part of being human. Also, I've seen some leftists rail against free speech, which I don't agree with whatsoever.

That's what I was talking about->

I see The right vs left nonsense is dumb in general, what isbright and whatvis left keeps changing Over the past decade or two the left appropriated some values of the right actually and the other way round as well

Post automatically merged: Feb 7, 2024

The best system is freedom. Let people work and take care of their lives. Governaments only make things worse when putting their finger on economy.

Free market=slave trade Always remember. Humans need a certain degree of regulation and rules in society or we just abuse and kill each other over bs reasons

Capitalism is in a stranglehold rn. The Oligarchs and Big Tech etc control things as of rn. They all hold too much power that it's basically a monopoly.

You really struggle with your definitions. Oligarchs and big tech are the direct result of the capitalistic system

This usually happens because of regulations. Governament always have a hand helping to creating monopolies.

Oh god NO it's the OPPOSITE

 

[Toby D. Dog]

You really struggle with your definitions. Oligarchs and big tech are the direct result of the capitalistic system

These guys don't understand what the system is in the first place. They've been brain washed into thinking corporations (which are the basis for capitalism itself) are somehow socialist cabals.

 

[Herrera95]

If there is evidence why are they not showing it?
And I would like to remind you that the USA fabricated proof in the most blatant way and the whole NATO started the IRAQ war on a lie.

Israel is not USA and doesn't half have influence of USA while being pressured by many countries to stop the war.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Israel is not USA and doesn't half have influence of USA while being pressured by many countries to stop the war.

Lol what?
You know how much money USA send to israel every year?
Israel amd USA are their own best allies.
And USA rules NATO.
And again, you did not answer the question. Where is the evidence?

 

[Herrera95]

There is, its called self sufficient living, "jobs" should not even be a thing

Yup. I believe Amihad are their names? They live just like that. Nope Amish. I checked. But not a single person. A group. Like a tiny society.

If you want to live on your own that would be like Robison Crusoe life style when he was in that island for 28 years.

Free market=slave trade Always remember. Humans need a certain degree of regulation and rules in society or we just abuse and kill each other over bs reasons

Yeah no dude.

Humans regulate themselves just well. They don't need Estate. In fact Estate was what allowed slavery to happen in most part of our history. And using even using religion to justify. That human regulation you are calling here.

 

[Zenos7]

I cannot believe, in all honesty, that Biden is the President with the highest votes in the history of the USA.
This poor man is clearly a puppet with dementia, and you want me to believe millions of people feel represented by a guy with dementia?

no but they hated the other guy so much they voted against him.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Lol what?
You know how much money USA send to israel every year?
Israel amd USA are their own best allies.
And USA rules NATO.
And again, you did not answer the question. Where is the evidence?

He doesn't know. You're talking to one of the dumbest users here.

 

[Logiko]

Too much gatekeeping and purity testing.

Fair pointas long as you are talking about sub leftist ideas. Leftist inside leftism can indeed be sometimes gatekeepers with others people.

I've seen some leftists rail against free speech

Have you examples ? I've never heard about leftist going after freespeech.

Yeah all those countries cut their funding based on no evidence

Indeed, just like a lot of those country are currently supporting a genocide.. Sometimes countries make mistakes.

Yes but in USA they call liberals the ones of the left

No, they call liberals the one in power. In reality, the left are called "woke" - Liberals =/= woke/leftist.

Sometimes uneducated people about politics will indeed call woke "liberals", but that's an error as leftism fight against liberalism.

they just want to everyone else to change and accept what they believe (the whole gender ideology)

Of course they do, simply because its concern the lives of actual people. Denying the existence and rights of actual people is not an opinion.

libertarian that would be the real warrior of freedom

Not really, because in reality, what liberatarian are people who just consider that their liberty can override the liberty, rights and existence of others.

No they don't. They just follow leaders and do as they said without having a real knowledge of the world. Not surprisingly they are often poor and uneducated.

No mate. Most leftist are highly educated people since most of them follow sciences and researches. Lower class activist are people who know a LOT about society.

What you don't understand is that its the right and your side that is uneducated and ignorant about the world and reality. A simple example is this one: Rightist follow the concept of meritocracy without even understanding that this concept was documented as simply inefficient by social sciences.

And when leftist points that out, those people reject this knowledge by saying that social sciences are full of leftist bias. In short, they can't learn because they think the knowledge is against them.

Therefore, they stay ignorant about the reality world and human behaviors.

If you are not capitalist or communist what you are?

A simple leftist. Most probably a radical socialist. But I'm not a communist and I'll never be a liberal or pro capitalist.

Yes. The ones USA calls liberals aka leftists. Not libertarians like me.

Liberal are entry rightist, libertarian are a bit more rightist than that. Not really conservative but not liberal either. Believing in a system when you should have the liberty to do what you want is believing in a system where you freedom can override the ones and the rights of others. Its completely opposed to leftism but its the logical sequel of liberalism.

Everything is better now. People in the past used to die because of flu, cold. Almost no one dies from it nowadays (just to not say no one since I can't be sure about it).

No. I just proved you that work hours where somewhat better in the past. In reality somethings were better in the past. For example, in hunter gatherer societies, there was probably no such thing as patriarchy and ressources where divided ethically and equally. There was also more liberty and less gender pressure on women as they were also hunter just like men.

This is just an example. Because we are in the future doesn't mean that we will essentially progress toward more progress.

Also check this

The Myth of a Carefree Prehistoric Lifestyle | The New Republic

"Except that’s just the start. As criticism emerged, Lee revisited his math. Recalculating, he offered a slightly higher average: “about 20 hours.” Lee further conceded that “it would be misleading” to use that figure on its own, as it counted only hours spent procuring food (the same is true of Sahlins’s figures). Of course, foragers must do other things to make their living as well: craft tools, butcher meat, grind nuts, draw water. Adding such tasks to the food quest, Lee concluded that Ju/’hoansi foragers had a 42.3-hour workweek, which is longer than the current 35-hour U.S. weekly average for most paid work. "

Also your article is wrong about unions being responsible for the changing in the 14-16 daily work hours we had previously. It was the Ford system that changed that. CAPITALISM. Not fucking union.

For once you are right, I took very little care in checking the source and the informations provided in the article were biased and missleading. But what you don't understand is that those hours if - granted - missrepresented by the article were in fact a lot less invasive than what we have here. Because what you forget to add is all the hours of domestic chores that were added in that count but not added the the count of the average american working hours. In reality, we do a LOT more that just 42.3 hours workweek.

This doesn't really change my point and my previous one. Things were not worse in the past. We can still take lesson from the past (as long as we do a good job at it) and future is not necessaraly syonymous of progress.

YES! Because of fucking TECHNOLOGY nothing else

No. Not only because of technology. Also because of a better system and a better redistribution of ressources.

If people stop to regulate fucking AI and going against with making unrational fear of it through society we could get there much quicker.

AI are literally stealing people works right now. Sometimes even literally (for artists). So yes, we F*xking NEED to regulate AI and prohibit unethical usage. Not regulating AI is accepting unethical practices. The development of AI doesn't mean that we must let it lose without regulation Einstein.

The best system is freedom.

Wrong. The best system will be based on solidarity. Simply because that what the human species is, a social specie. If you want freedom, go in a sahara oasis an try to create your own society there, but careful, you won't go far on your own.

capitalists being a bunch of heartless that couldn't care less about human beings are totally wrong

Wrong. Its not about capitalist being hearthless or inhuman. Its about capitalist and liberal acting on their own interest. Billionnaire don't donate because they want to help people first. Billionnaire donate because its benefit them on taxes. If Billionnaire were really acting for others, they would donate and redistribute the quasi totality of their wealth.

A world where Billionaires and millionnaire exist while people can't eat or have a roof, is not a just, good or ethical world.

It's like when C4N makes his absurd claims, worth nothing.

Bad example.. I always provide sources, most of the time scientific. They can be debatable, granted like that last one, but not providing evidences is not a trial you can put me into.

 

[Herrera95]

Lol what?
You know how much money USA send to israel every year?
Israel amd USA are their own best allies.
And USA rules NATO.
And again, you did not answer the question. Where is the evidence?

All I'm saying is that is different from USA making an argument and Israel making and argument.

Countries are investigating the allegations. So far we only know of US officials taking a look without deeper investigation to confirm but saying it is highly credible. Soon we will have all evidences.

Yall love to choose the wrong side. Also all the international aid to people on Gaza is going to Hamas and not the people.

 

[Logiko]

All I'm saying is that is different from USA making an argument and Israel making and argument.

Countries are investigating the allegations. So far we only know of US officials taking a look without deeper investigation to confirm but saying it is highly credible. Soon we will have all evidences.

Yall love to choose the wrong side. Also all the international aid to people on Gaza is going to Hamas and not the people.

When a country's executive explains that it is normal and necessary to starve and prevent medical care to the population of another nation, then NO, the argument of said countries that the organization trying to feed and take care of the population is completely corrupted is NOT credible you genocide denier.