DC & Marvel - Official Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Finalbeta
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I don't think this is a fatigue due to the genre rather than it being due to very bad stories...
When you look at the superhero shows lately you get:
(Average is not good or mid, its the minimum required to have a pleasant experience)
In series:
- Batgirl : Bad
- The end of Supergirl : Bad
- The end of the flash : Bad
- The end of Arrow : Lower than average
- The end of DC Legends : Lower than average
- Superman and Lois : Average
- Stargirl : Average
- The boyz : Good if I believe the critics
- Hawkeye : Average
- Falcon and the winter Soldier : Average
- WandaVision : Very Good
- Loki : Very Good
- Miss Marvel: Average
- She Hulk : Average or very bad, it depends on the critics
- Moon knight: Better than Average
In movies:
- Shazam: Average
- Spider-man : Noway home : Better than average
- Black Widow : Average if I listen to the critics
- Aquaman 2: not seen it yet.. but my expectations are not high
- Shang-chi : Average
- Eternals : Average
- Justice League : Bad then Better than Average
- Wonderwoman 1984: Average
- Guardian of the galaxy 3 : Good
- Doctor Strange MoM : Average
- Thor Love and thunder : Lower than Average
- Black Panther : Wakanda Forever : Average
- Ant-man Quantumania : Worst marvel ever
- The Marvels : Lower than average
- The Flash : Lower than average
- Black Adams : Bad
- Bird of Prey : Better than Average
Compared to phase 1 and 2 of early Marvel and DC were there was at least some good material... its not the case anymore.
The stories are predictable. Dialogues are literally in your faces. Characters are not interesting. There is no search for any kind of good storytelling and its plain as F. no provoking thoughts at all.
The problem could be the amount of content but I think it has more to do with the actual love - or lack of - put into the productions of those stories.
When you look at the superhero shows lately you get:
(Average is not good or mid, its the minimum required to have a pleasant experience)
In series:
- Batgirl : Bad
- The end of Supergirl : Bad
- The end of the flash : Bad
- The end of Arrow : Lower than average
- The end of DC Legends : Lower than average
- Superman and Lois : Average
- Stargirl : Average
- The boyz : Good if I believe the critics
- Hawkeye : Average
- Falcon and the winter Soldier : Average
- WandaVision : Very Good
- Loki : Very Good
- Miss Marvel: Average
- She Hulk : Average or very bad, it depends on the critics
- Moon knight: Better than Average
In movies:
- Shazam: Average
- Spider-man : Noway home : Better than average
- Black Widow : Average if I listen to the critics
- Aquaman 2: not seen it yet.. but my expectations are not high
- Shang-chi : Average
- Eternals : Average
- Justice League : Bad then Better than Average
- Wonderwoman 1984: Average
- Guardian of the galaxy 3 : Good
- Doctor Strange MoM : Average
- Thor Love and thunder : Lower than Average
- Black Panther : Wakanda Forever : Average
- Ant-man Quantumania : Worst marvel ever
- The Marvels : Lower than average
- The Flash : Lower than average
- Black Adams : Bad
- Bird of Prey : Better than Average
Compared to phase 1 and 2 of early Marvel and DC were there was at least some good material... its not the case anymore.
The stories are predictable. Dialogues are literally in your faces. Characters are not interesting. There is no search for any kind of good storytelling and its plain as F. no provoking thoughts at all.
The problem could be the amount of content but I think it has more to do with the actual love - or lack of - put into the productions of those stories.
I think there is also the fact that Super Hero stories are suffering from their own essence in a time where we actually need something more. Something more politic.
Compare Ahsoka and Andor for example - I know I bring this example at every corners but this was impactfull enough to be mentionned:
When you compare objectively the two Ip what do you get ? Well, one average serie about yet another Jedi master and an amazing serie about a rebel.. The difference here is simple. Yes, the stories are different and Asokha is not the best directed and written story, its cool, but its boring and it shows a story that could fit in two episode in eight... plus.. there is no risk, no real provoking thought.
Andor speaks about an average guys becoming a rebel and the stories of multiple complicated characters in the middle of a systemic fascist galactic empire.
Asokha... you get two women (good), a master and her apprentice trying to find and take down another baddy (less good).
And its the same thing with super hero movies.. There is no substance and super heros - in an area of strong social struggle against systemic injustices - are still the "good guys" who are only fighting the badies and worst.. most of the time they are the good guys fighting justice or ecological warriors turned magically terrorist because.. reasons I guess?..... ffs
No wonder that with the rise of the alt right... conservative and real leftists are both becoming more and more aware of the liberal bad usage of political message in those stories or the absence of it.
Compare Ahsoka and Andor for example - I know I bring this example at every corners but this was impactfull enough to be mentionned:
When you compare objectively the two Ip what do you get ? Well, one average serie about yet another Jedi master and an amazing serie about a rebel.. The difference here is simple. Yes, the stories are different and Asokha is not the best directed and written story, its cool, but its boring and it shows a story that could fit in two episode in eight... plus.. there is no risk, no real provoking thought.
Andor speaks about an average guys becoming a rebel and the stories of multiple complicated characters in the middle of a systemic fascist galactic empire.
Asokha... you get two women (good), a master and her apprentice trying to find and take down another baddy (less good).
And its the same thing with super hero movies.. There is no substance and super heros - in an area of strong social struggle against systemic injustices - are still the "good guys" who are only fighting the badies and worst.. most of the time they are the good guys fighting justice or ecological warriors turned magically terrorist because.. reasons I guess?..... ffs
No wonder that with the rise of the alt right... conservative and real leftists are both becoming more and more aware of the liberal bad usage of political message in those stories or the absence of it.
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superheroes as a concept is fine
The issue is with the superhero movies that are being created.
These movies are mass produced cookie cutter entertainment.
For a lot of these movies, there’s just no soul to them. It’s just the same movie being remade over and over again with different characters each time.
Just because you are making a “superhero movie”, doesn’t mean it needs to be the exact same type of film as every other superhero movie.
There are different ways one can use superhero characters to tell a story.
But it just feels like these films are lacking in anything that would make them particularly memorable. Good cinematography, dialogue, acting. It’s just not there in the superhero films.
The issue is with the superhero movies that are being created.
These movies are mass produced cookie cutter entertainment.
For a lot of these movies, there’s just no soul to them. It’s just the same movie being remade over and over again with different characters each time.
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Just because you are making a “superhero movie”, doesn’t mean it needs to be the exact same type of film as every other superhero movie.
There are different ways one can use superhero characters to tell a story.
But it just feels like these films are lacking in anything that would make them particularly memorable. Good cinematography, dialogue, acting. It’s just not there in the superhero films.
My biggest problem with most of current superhero movies is that they're way too cliche-y and as @Monkey D Theories said, have no soul.
I still enjoyed GotG vol 3 very much, and I also really liked Miles Morales Spider-Man movies (can't wait for the last installment in the trilogy!), so it's less of a problem of a superhero fatigue, it's rather dull plots and uninteresting characters.
I still enjoyed GotG vol 3 very much, and I also really liked Miles Morales Spider-Man movies (can't wait for the last installment in the trilogy!), so it's less of a problem of a superhero fatigue, it's rather dull plots and uninteresting characters.
Yeah the issue is not really Superhero fatigue but the fact that there are so many movies and series done in such a short amount of time, only for the majority of them to be mediocre or outright crappy. It's like the Video Game crash of 1983 where the video game market in the US crashed due to the too large number of too many bad and unoriginal video games that caused a krach and massive loss of interest in video games and consoles until Nintendo arrived with revitalized the market with its NES and its less numerous games of far better quality.