General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
- Start date
- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
=)
Because I say that I know some stuff ? Well.. nothing can be done about it then ... Seems like saying that, is worse than people insulting, harrassing, gaslighting and calling others "trash"... Who guessed it
I can confirm that.
No. ^^^^^^^^^^
And ? Because a character is not real, does it allow you to perform toxic behaviors ?
"Do NoT TaKe SeRiOuSlY Or PoLiTiCiZe OnE Of mY FaVoRiTe StOrY WrItTeN fOr ChIldReN
"
รnly someone who is completely depoliticized can think that One Piece is politically "not deep"
I'm never "upset" on this forum.. Even when someone quite literally sends me death threats.. I'm just saying that is not true. Minks are humanoids, they are part animals and therefore dehumanizing them is depicting racist rethoric.
That's actually very simple. It doesn't take a social science degree to understand this.
Because I say that I know some stuff ? Well.. nothing can be done about it then ... Seems like saying that, is worse than people insulting, harrassing, gaslighting and calling others "trash"... Who guessed it
I can confirm that.
No. ^^^^^^^^^^
And ? Because a character is not real, does it allow you to perform toxic behaviors ?
"Do NoT TaKe SeRiOuSlY Or PoLiTiCiZe OnE Of mY FaVoRiTe StOrY WrItTeN fOr ChIldReN
"รnly someone who is completely depoliticized can think that One Piece is politically "not deep"
I'm never "upset" on this forum.. Even when someone quite literally sends me death threats.. I'm just saying that is not true. Minks are humanoids, they are part animals and therefore dehumanizing them is depicting racist rethoric.
That's actually very simple. It doesn't take a social science degree to understand this.
Realize what exactly ? I'm not the first nor the last to spam wall of text for no reason (even if its mostly to debunk bs) here, so realize what exactly ? That writing walls of text is bad and somehow "not what the cool kids do" ?
Let's be honest, In reality there is nothing to realize. Those type of invective are empty of any substance.
Yes in term of storytelling, I can safely say that I know One Piece and the story of Carrot quite literally better than most people here. That's a fact that I deduced from the majority of the post here. From the ignorant affirmations about the writing of the characters to the blindness in front of clear storytelling patterns.
But .. Maybe you are asking me to realize that its not the case perhaps ? hm ??
Indeed, Vivi is a given. Yamato, Momo and Kinemon are not. Narratively they don't have the same status.
No. Never. Not even once. Not even when I said that I had the impression of talking with pidgeon (which was not an insult but an actual description of what I was facing in terms of behaviors at the times referencing the quote I wrote earlier). Not a SINGLE time in my ENTIRE presence of this forum have I insulted anyone directly or indirectly..
.. on the other hand.. I've been insulted, harrassed, gaslighted, threatenned, delegitimized multiple and multiple times by a whole lot of people. And its okay, I don't complain, I did not expected much more from this forum to begin with.. but those are the facts.
What I did on the other hand said is : "you don't know" and "you are wrong" a LOT. And if those are the "insult" you are refering to, let me laugh.
Hmm .. no. No that I recall no.
You are reminding me Van when he tries to twist the history. You are literally trying to invent a story. And I know what you are refering to in fact:
The motif that was explained to me was "stop bringing politic into a discussion that has nothing to do with it"
I was literally threadbanned for making the thread political and talking about racism in the context of the mink tribe. A talk that our dear politically confused Van did not understand like every good apolitical liberal/centrist. Absolutely nothing was "insensitive" in what I was saying.
Let me repeat it again CLEARLY:
Minks are not animals they are PART animals. Minks are humanoids.
DeHUMANIZING and trying to deligitimize minks by calling them "animals" or "stupid" or insulting because of their condition is - in the context of their oppression and creation - RACIST rethoric. (its literally the tools used by a specific gov right now to justify atrocities). Its legitimizing the process of the oppression happening in the story against different races like Minks and Fishmen and its revealing of a lack of understanding of the oppression happening in the real world that those races are DIRECTLY referencing.
Which makes the reality of the "insensitive" quote on the side of those who criticized this talk INCLUDING people of color or others that said things like:
- Roo's : "anyways these are cartoons, who gives a fuck if people hate fishmen or minks"
Or
- Van :"So let me get this straight: you compared black people to animals, and call black people racist for feeling offended by your comments, and you believe that's fine or is too dense to notice?"
Yes those are cartoons, but this does not mean that we must overlook the way we interact and consider characters in a story because that treatment is revealing of the way we treat actual people in real life.
Again, dehumanizing a race that is PURPUSEFULLY created to be humanized and a parrallel to real life struggle of people of color is:
RACIST (no matter your color)
And refusing to politicize a debate or aknowledging the critic of an oppression in a discussion about a story talking about the subject is allowing said oppression and toxic behavior to be repeated again. Its a pure liberal choice.
And I'm the political enemy of liberals.
That's what "woke" really means : Being aware of the nature and the forms that take the oppressions in society. Even when those oppressions take the form of people trashing characters of a story because of the identities of those characters.
And yet... this animalistic side was used by Carrot hater to deligitimize her and criticize her.
And the point I wanted to make about Carrot is that she is not only hated because she is a feminine girl but ALSO because she is a mink. Its a double jeopardy that falls upon her and.. you guessed it (not really) ... on the FANS that talk a bit "too much about her" as well.
Because yes.. what do Carrot haters call a Carrot fan ? ... A furry. And not in the good way, in the dehumanizing, psychophobic and creepy bad way. This means that its almost impossible to appreciate her character without being insulted or dehumanized once you start having a opinion about her story. And its showed here...
Carrot would be a mermaid it would be the same.. The behavior that consist in essentializing a person or character to what they are is inherently toxic. Sexism and racism would also be used to deligitimize her and her fans in that context.
If you don't care, do not reply mate..
And no. Noone insulted you once again. You are inventing things.
Let's be honest, In reality there is nothing to realize. Those type of invective are empty of any substance.
Yes in term of storytelling, I can safely say that I know One Piece and the story of Carrot quite literally better than most people here. That's a fact that I deduced from the majority of the post here. From the ignorant affirmations about the writing of the characters to the blindness in front of clear storytelling patterns.
But .. Maybe you are asking me to realize that its not the case perhaps ? hm ??
Indeed, Vivi is a given. Yamato, Momo and Kinemon are not. Narratively they don't have the same status.
No. Never. Not even once. Not even when I said that I had the impression of talking with pidgeon (which was not an insult but an actual description of what I was facing in terms of behaviors at the times referencing the quote I wrote earlier). Not a SINGLE time in my ENTIRE presence of this forum have I insulted anyone directly or indirectly..
.. on the other hand.. I've been insulted, harrassed, gaslighted, threatenned, delegitimized multiple and multiple times by a whole lot of people. And its okay, I don't complain, I did not expected much more from this forum to begin with.. but those are the facts.
What I did on the other hand said is : "you don't know" and "you are wrong" a LOT. And if those are the "insult" you are refering to, let me laugh.
Hmm .. no. No that I recall no.
You are reminding me Van when he tries to twist the history. You are literally trying to invent a story. And I know what you are refering to in fact:
The motif that was explained to me was "stop bringing politic into a discussion that has nothing to do with it"
I was literally threadbanned for making the thread political and talking about racism in the context of the mink tribe. A talk that our dear politically confused Van did not understand like every good apolitical liberal/centrist. Absolutely nothing was "insensitive" in what I was saying.
Let me repeat it again CLEARLY:
Minks are not animals they are PART animals. Minks are humanoids.
DeHUMANIZING and trying to deligitimize minks by calling them "animals" or "stupid" or insulting because of their condition is - in the context of their oppression and creation - RACIST rethoric. (its literally the tools used by a specific gov right now to justify atrocities). Its legitimizing the process of the oppression happening in the story against different races like Minks and Fishmen and its revealing of a lack of understanding of the oppression happening in the real world that those races are DIRECTLY referencing.
Which makes the reality of the "insensitive" quote on the side of those who criticized this talk INCLUDING people of color or others that said things like:
- Roo's : "anyways these are cartoons, who gives a fuck if people hate fishmen or minks"
Or
- Van :"So let me get this straight: you compared black people to animals, and call black people racist for feeling offended by your comments, and you believe that's fine or is too dense to notice?"
Yes those are cartoons, but this does not mean that we must overlook the way we interact and consider characters in a story because that treatment is revealing of the way we treat actual people in real life.
Again, dehumanizing a race that is PURPUSEFULLY created to be humanized and a parrallel to real life struggle of people of color is:
RACIST (no matter your color)
And refusing to politicize a debate or aknowledging the critic of an oppression in a discussion about a story talking about the subject is allowing said oppression and toxic behavior to be repeated again. Its a pure liberal choice.
And I'm the political enemy of liberals.
That's what "woke" really means : Being aware of the nature and the forms that take the oppressions in society. Even when those oppressions take the form of people trashing characters of a story because of the identities of those characters.
And yet... this animalistic side was used by Carrot hater to deligitimize her and criticize her.
And the point I wanted to make about Carrot is that she is not only hated because she is a feminine girl but ALSO because she is a mink. Its a double jeopardy that falls upon her and.. you guessed it (not really) ... on the FANS that talk a bit "too much about her" as well.
Because yes.. what do Carrot haters call a Carrot fan ? ... A furry. And not in the good way, in the dehumanizing, psychophobic and creepy bad way. This means that its almost impossible to appreciate her character without being insulted or dehumanized once you start having a opinion about her story. And its showed here...
Carrot would be a mermaid it would be the same.. The behavior that consist in essentializing a person or character to what they are is inherently toxic. Sexism and racism would also be used to deligitimize her and her fans in that context.
If you don't care, do not reply mate..
And no. Noone insulted you once again. You are inventing things.
Your logic is like swiss cheese.
1. "Humanoids" is just a word that means anthropomorphized "things", having the shape of a human or being bipedal like the Minks are doesn't grant them the moral right to be treated equivalent to humans
2. The minks ARE basically bipedal animals with inteligence, that's quite literally what they are.
3. Animals is quite literally what humans are aswell, you're transmiting your own real world connotations to a show
4. The minks quite literally say they call humans, "hairless apes" and that they also consider humans minks, doesn't Wanda even call them "lesser minks" ? Like bruh
5. You're not dehumanizing a fictional Mink by calling them an animal, they are literally animals with inteligence
6. Having inteligence and self-awareness is what makes Minks a moral equivalent to humans in one piece, not if they're animals or not, by your logic since Pappag ( that starfish that hangs with Camie) is not a humanoid, it doens't diserve humane treatment since it's only a walking, talking thinking starfish.
7. Racism does not apply to other species or imaginary ones, you hate liberals so much but this a point they make constantly, race/racism is applicable to humans, you can allegorically talk about racism through other species but it's not actual racism. Saying a dog is inferior to me is not racism.
8. This is all fiction, get over yourself
1. "Humanoids" is just a word that means anthropomorphized "things", having the shape of a human or being bipedal like the Minks are doesn't grant them the moral right to be treated equivalent to humans
2. The minks ARE basically bipedal animals with inteligence, that's quite literally what they are.
3. Animals is quite literally what humans are aswell, you're transmiting your own real world connotations to a show
4. The minks quite literally say they call humans, "hairless apes" and that they also consider humans minks, doesn't Wanda even call them "lesser minks" ? Like bruh
5. You're not dehumanizing a fictional Mink by calling them an animal, they are literally animals with inteligence
6. Having inteligence and self-awareness is what makes Minks a moral equivalent to humans in one piece, not if they're animals or not, by your logic since Pappag ( that starfish that hangs with Camie) is not a humanoid, it doens't diserve humane treatment since it's only a walking, talking thinking starfish.
7. Racism does not apply to other species or imaginary ones, you hate liberals so much but this a point they make constantly, race/racism is applicable to humans, you can allegorically talk about racism through other species but it's not actual racism. Saying a dog is inferior to me is not racism.
8. This is all fiction, get over yourself
Implying animals cannot be as intelligent as humans, when humans are just intelligent animals in the first place, is not only racist, it doesn't even make sense, considering your are separating humanity from the animal kingdom, when most rational scientist do indeed classify humans within the animal kingdom.
It is through people acting that humans are not animals that racism is born.
How many times have we seen those treated as inferior races called "monkeys" or "apes" in derogatory ways? Why is that?
Because acting as if humans are above animals is racist to begin with. If the human had never considered the monkey to be lesser, black people would have never been called monkeys as a slur. If the human had treated the monkey as his friend, as the Minks of One Piece treated the Straw Hats, what would our world look like?
Of course the Minks are animals: proud, nobles humanoid Animals, who loyal actions in Zou through protecting Raizo at any cost made them favorites to many fans, like myself. I do not hate them because I view them as animals, when I view all living mammals as animals, including humanity.
Elitism is elitism no matter how many words you place before it and try to hide behind.
Stop acting like we left monke to begin with.
Stand Proud.
We are Monke.
@Pot Goblin Yo, Pot, look at how this week went full circle, holy shit! My crazy animal rant earlier was a fucking prophecy!
It is through people acting that humans are not animals that racism is born.
How many times have we seen those treated as inferior races called "monkeys" or "apes" in derogatory ways? Why is that?
Because acting as if humans are above animals is racist to begin with. If the human had never considered the monkey to be lesser, black people would have never been called monkeys as a slur. If the human had treated the monkey as his friend, as the Minks of One Piece treated the Straw Hats, what would our world look like?
Of course the Minks are animals: proud, nobles humanoid Animals, who loyal actions in Zou through protecting Raizo at any cost made them favorites to many fans, like myself. I do not hate them because I view them as animals, when I view all living mammals as animals, including humanity.
Elitism is elitism no matter how many words you place before it and try to hide behind.
Stop acting like we left monke to begin with.
Stand Proud.
We are Monke.
@Pot Goblin Yo, Pot, look at how this week went full circle, holy shit! My crazy animal rant earlier was a fucking prophecy!
Post automatically merged:
The fact we even have to debate that minks are "animals" and that somehow calling them as such is "racist" and "dehumanizing" just shows how much C4N's presence derails threads, why are we even trying to debate this (aside from the fact it's pretty funny)
Not really racist.. rather specist but that another real problem indeed.
No.. just because its wrong. If you want, we can analyse deeply the reason why. But every one with a minimum of political knowledge agrees that One Piece is much deeper than a simple story for children.
"do not politicize debate, do not bring politics into One Piece, do not politicize One Piece when we are discussing about One Piece"
I don't remember saying that.
On the other hand, essentializing characters who are humanoids and part animals to their animal side is, yes. Its a form of dehumanization that is not magically more acceptable because the characters are fictionnal.
No. It means that they have human behaviors and forms.
Lesser mink = Lesser hair = same people
The mink consider all races as equal. This is literally what Wanda said.. bruh
Dog attributes*
Jaguar attributes*
Rabbit attributes*
Guess what, we have monkey attributes. Do I call you an animal because of that ? And talking about that :
Technically yes. Like all of us.. but..
... is it okay when a gov call a population "animals" then ???
What happens when the term "animal" is used to deligitimize a person or a character ?
wow...
And I bet that you don't see what is wrong with your sentence here...
Yup I completely agree. Then why did I see people use the term "animal" to deligitimize Carrot here & on twitter ?
Hm ???
Oh really ?
So there is no racism in One Piece then ? And I guess you can't be racist if you say that Jinbe is less than a human because he is a fishmen.... ?
Is this what you are trying to tell me ?
Try to say that to researchers who work on the relationships between fiction and reality. I wonder how you will get recieved hehe
So.... anyone could say that Nami should be raped and it.. "would be okay" then ?
After all, its fictionnal....... Right ?
Or maybe.. just maybe....
Maybe... the way we interact and consider FICTIONAL characters is actually linked with the way we interact with REAL person in real life ?
Just a thought...
No.. just because its wrong. If you want, we can analyse deeply the reason why. But every one with a minimum of political knowledge agrees that One Piece is much deeper than a simple story for children.
"do not politicize debate, do not bring politics into One Piece, do not politicize One Piece when we are discussing about One Piece"
I don't remember saying that.
On the other hand, essentializing characters who are humanoids and part animals to their animal side is, yes. Its a form of dehumanization that is not magically more acceptable because the characters are fictionnal.
No. It means that they have human behaviors and forms.
Lesser mink = Lesser hair = same people
The mink consider all races as equal. This is literally what Wanda said.. bruh
Dog attributes*
Jaguar attributes*
Rabbit attributes*
Guess what, we have monkey attributes. Do I call you an animal because of that ? And talking about that :
Technically yes. Like all of us.. but..
... is it okay when a gov call a population "animals" then ???
What happens when the term "animal" is used to deligitimize a person or a character ?
wow...
And I bet that you don't see what is wrong with your sentence here...
Yup I completely agree. Then why did I see people use the term "animal" to deligitimize Carrot here & on twitter ?
Hm ???
Oh really ?
So there is no racism in One Piece then ? And I guess you can't be racist if you say that Jinbe is less than a human because he is a fishmen.... ?
Is this what you are trying to tell me ?
Try to say that to researchers who work on the relationships between fiction and reality. I wonder how you will get recieved hehe
So.... anyone could say that Nami should be raped and it.. "would be okay" then ?
After all, its fictionnal....... Right ?
Or maybe.. just maybe....
Maybe... the way we interact and consider FICTIONAL characters is actually linked with the way we interact with REAL person in real life ?
Just a thought...
those proportions are too inhuman to be attractive
But this? Peak.
I still miss Pre Time Skip Robin, such a ridiculously beautiful character. She's still great, but man Robin's face, just that pensive stare, those mysterious eyes, her jet-black hair. I could just look at her face for days.
I think Vivi's new design is nice, the wavy hair is a lot more bold. I just need Karoo to eat a Mythical Devil Fruit.
Nearly 1000 chapters saving Vivi for Pluton, holy crap.
If Pluton gets offscreened Luton man, it's fucking Luton. PLZ no Luton Oda PLZ.
