General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Garp the Fist]

It's not about developing it, it's just having it. And doing so, he'd just have to adopt a Mink physiology outside his human-reindeer hybrid. Just saying he's compared to a Mink when Carrot showed the difference between an animal and a Mink is there. Without any possible modifications to his body/ forms, then no he can't just have it.

Says who? One of Whitebeard's captains has a thunder sword, same as Inuarashi. For all we know, that's because he's somehow learned how to use Electro, despite not being a Mink.

It's pretty simple

-All Minks have Electro
-Therefore, if you can't use Electro, you aren't a Mink
-that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else to learn how to use it despite not being a Mink

Also, those Mink abilities would have been nice to see during Whole Cake Island if he was so interested in their abilities or has even implied to be interested in their abilities.

How would he use them on WCI, before he'd actually seen them in action?

If Chopper is to learn Mink stuff, he'd have done it in the trip from WCI to Wano, or in the two weeks training for the war. Not mid-arc.

Post automatically merged: Jul 8, 2020

Not looking good for the talking rabbit

"I've already got something like that"
"Oh look, an island full of Choppers"
Followed by three arcs of Luffy not showing the slightest interest in asking Carrot to be on his crew.

 

[Visa]

Says who? One of Whitebeard's captains has a thunder sword, same as Inuarashi. For all we know, that's because he's somehow learned how to use Electro, despite not being a Mink.

It's pretty simple

-All Minks have Electro
-Therefore, if you can't use Electro, you aren't a Mink
-that doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else to learn how to use it despite not being a Mink


How would he use them on WCI, before he'd actually seen them in action?

If Chopper is to learn Mink stuff, he'd have done it in the trip from WCI to Wano, or in the two weeks training for the war. Not mid-arc.

Post automatically merged: Jul 8, 2020

You don't even know what Thunder McGuy does. For all you know, he could be doing what Kinemon does, whose swordsmanship allows him to cut and create fire. Also, in that same arc, Zoro said he was interested in learning it. Or how Vista can seemingly produce flower petals when he's a confirmed Non-DF user. To say that's Electro is pushing it. You can say it's electric based and similar to Electro, but saying it's the same is a different matter entirely.

Your approach is because Chopper is an anthropomorphic animal similar to the Minks, he can also learn Mink abilities. However, unless he biologically engineers a way to make it so that he can emulate Electro, he never will fully possess it. And he's had plenty of time to know of the Minks abilities since he was never shocked whenever he saw Carrot use her abilities. If he was interested in knowing it, the narrative would indicate it.

 

[Prochief]

I think Luffy already distinguishes chopper from a mink since he gave the alliance the name "Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai Alliance."

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

Why not all three of them entering in this arc?
One for different tiers in the strawhats.
Yamato for Top tier around Zoro?
Jimbei around Franky and Robin?
Carrot for the weaks Nami and Usopp?

 

[Kafkananta]

Why not all three of them entering in this arc?
One for different tiers in the strawhats.
Yamato for Top tier around Zoro?
Jimbei around Franky and Robin?
Carrot for the weaks Nami and Usopp?

If Yamato's about to join, she's clearly in mid tier. She's the highest among those mid tier or the second highest after Robin.

 

[Garp the Fist]

You don't even know what Thunder McGuy does.

And you do?

It could be Electro, it could not be Electro. Until Oda slams the door on it definitively- which he hasn't done- the possibility remains that it is something that can be learned.

Your approach is because Chopper is an anthropomorphic animal similar to the Minks, he can also learn Mink abilities.

My approach is that it's possible

However, unless he biologically engineers a way to make it so that he can emulate Electro, he never will fully possess it.

Unproven, because for all we know McGuy is using Electro.

And if it is actually the case that it would need biological engineering, Chopper's one of the few characters in the series who could do such a thing, based on his experimentation with his own body with his DF

And he's had plenty of time to know of the Minks abilities since he was never shocked whenever he saw Carrot use her abilities.

He hasn't had plenty of time at all. He is unlikely to have seen Carrot, or any Mink, fight until WCI, given that he arrived after Jack had gassed them all. We know for certain he'd never seen Su Long. During WCI he certainly wouldn't have time to develop it. And he hasn't had a real one on one fight since WCI, which is where Oda would have him use his potential new powerup.

If by the end of the Onigashima fight he's not shown anything like Electro or Su Long then we can say he isn't going to have it.

If he was interested in knowing it, the narrative would indicate it.

Poor argument. The narrative sometimes indicates a Strawhat is looking for a powerup, it sometimes doesn't. Asura, DJ, Sky Walk, Luffy being able to use Soru in G2- none of these had any hints about them. Zoro talked about wanting to cut steel, he didn't mention wanting to make air attacks until it happened. The Climatact wasn't brought up until the first time Nami used it.

 

[Albino 👑]

Sulong isnt really a point in carrots favor at all
Its something she can only transform into once a month thars not much help

 

[Kafkananta]

Sulong isnt really a point in carrots favor at all
Its something she can only transform into once a month thars not much help

In our world full moon happened twice. In OP world it probably can happen once in three days

 

[dizzy2341]

It's a bad argument inspired by headcanon that Chopper will learn Electro and Sulong.

The comparisons to Fishman Karate are missing out the obvious fact that Fishman Karate is a martial art. It's not an innate ability. Fishmen are not born with the ability to use fishman karate. They have to learn it. They have dojos dedicated to learning it, and different levels of expertise in the martial art form. Because it's karate...a fighting style...It's merely called fishman karate because it is a karate fighting style practiced by fishmen. It's totally plausible that a martial art that is commonly practiced by a certain race could be taught to others.

Electro is not a martial art. It is an innate genetic ability that every mink is born able to do. It's not as simple as any furry thing can make electro. We've literally had a moment like this in the manga:

It was never once said "You're not a fishman, you can't use fishman karate". It was literally said, you're not a mink, you can't make electro".

No one "learns" Electro. Not even the minks themselves. It's simply something they can do. Claiming Chopper can learn Electro from Carrot is about as intelligent as saying Sanji can learn how to breathe underwater from Jinbe. Not very...

 

[Albino 👑]

In our world full moon happened twice. In OP world it probably can happen once in three days

The last full moon we saw was like a month ago during wci the next one will be tonight during wci festival

 

[Visa]

And you do?

It could be Electro, it could not be Electro. Until Oda slams the door on it definitively- which he hasn't done- the possibility remains that it is something that can be learned.


My approach is that it's possible


Unproven, because for all we know McGuy is using Electro.

And if it is actually the case that it would need biological engineering, Chopper's one of the few characters in the series who could do such a thing, based on his experimentation with his own body with his DF


He hasn't had plenty of time at all. He is unlikely to have seen Carrot, or any Mink, fight until WCI, given that he arrived after Jack had gassed them all. We know for certain he'd never seen Su Long. During WCI he certainly wouldn't have time to develop it. And he hasn't had a real one on one fight since WCI, which is where Oda would have him use his potential new powerup.

If by the end of the Onigashima fight he's not shown anything like Electro or Su Long then we can say he isn't going to have it.


Poor argument. The narrative sometimes indicates a Strawhat is looking for a powerup, it sometimes doesn't. Asura, DJ, Sky Walk, Luffy being able to use Soru in G2- none of these had any hints about them. Zoro talked about wanting to cut steel, he didn't mention wanting to make air attacks until it happened. The Climatact wasn't brought up until the first time Nami used it.

The approach is based on an assumption that isn't validated outside of speculation. We know for a fact that only Minks can use Electro. It's not a skill that's learned, it's an inherit ability. Saying you could mimic it is one thing, but to have it is a completely separate matter.

As I have already said, you don't learn it, you have it. Since birth.

 

[Garp the Fist]

The approach is based on an assumption that isn't validated outside of speculation. We know for a fact that only Minks can use Electro. It's not a skill that's learned, it's an inherit ability. Saying you could mimic it is one thing, but to have it is a completely separate matter.

As I have already said, you don't learn it, you have it. Since birth.

No, we don't know that as a fact. What we know for a fact is that all Minks can use Electro, which does not disqualify the idea that others can as well. Just because Randolph- a barely sapient being who only exists as he does through the soul of another couldn't, doesn't mean another character, like Chopper, or Thunder McGuy, couldn't as well.

Some are born able to use CoO, like Aisa and Otohime. Everyone else has to unlock it, either through training, through trauma, or it just happening naturally. There is absolutely nothing so far that says, point blank, that Electro is not the same.

 

[Visa]

No, we don't know that as a fact. What we know for a fact is that all Minks can use Electro, which does not disqualify the idea that others can as well. Just because Randolph- a barely sapient being who only exists as he does through the soul of another couldn't, doesn't mean another character, like Chopper, or Thunder McGuy, couldn't as well.

Some are born able to use CoO, like Aisa and Otohime. Everyone else has to unlock it, either through training, through trauma, or it just happening naturally. There is absolutely nothing so far that says, point blank, that Electro is not the same.

It is a fact, its pointed out twice. One by a monkey Mink on Zou during Jack's raid and another by Carrot when she kicks Randolph. It's a fact: you are born with Electro, you don't learn it.

You can learn Merman Combat, you can learn Fishman Karate, you can learn Rokushiki, you can learn any type of Haki you want (unless you don't have Conqueror's), you can learn any type of Swordsmanship you want.

You can't learn a racial trait that a species is inbred with. Just like you can't learn to talk to fish like Mermaids and Fishmen can, you can't learn to make Electro. You are born with it. Either you have it or you don't. Electric inspired abilities, sure. Electro, no.

 

[Garp the Fist]

It is a fact, its pointed out twice. One by a monkey Mink on Zou during Jack's raid and another by Carrot when she kicks Randolph. It's a fact: you are born with Electro, you don't learn it.

You can learn Merman Combat, you can learn Fishman Karate, you can learn Rokushiki, you can learn any type of Haki you want (unless you don't have Conqueror's), you can learn any type of Swordsmanship you want.

You can't learn a racial trait that a species is inbred with. Just like you can't learn to talk to fish like Mermaids and Fishmen can, you can't learn to make Electro. You are born with it. Either you have it or you don't. Electric inspired abilities, sure. Electro, no.

No, it isn't a fact.

It would be a fact if you were able to give me a panel where it says "you cannot learn Electro. Or Su Long" You can't. You can give me panels that prove that Minks are born with it, which does not prove that nobody else can possibly do it.

If after a real fight on Wano Chopper hasn't shown either, then I'll agree. Until now, up in the air.

A fact is something like this- it is a fact that Luffy briefly considered inviting a Mink onto to his crew the second he met him, only to immediately change his mind because he already had Chopper.

Spoiler

It is a fact that Luffy upon meeting Carrot says that Zou is "like an island of Choppers"

Spoiler

And so it is a fact that Luffy has shown absolutely no desire to have a Mink on his crew as he thinks they are too similar to Chopper, and that Luffy showed more interest in having Pekoms on his crew within seconds of meeting him than he has in three arcs of interactions with Carrot.

 

[Visa]

No, it isn't a fact.

It would be a fact if you were able to give me a panel where it says "you cannot learn Electro. Or Su Long" You can't. You can give me panels that prove that Minks are born with it, which does not prove that nobody else can possibly do it.

If after a real fight on Wano Chopper hasn't shown either, then I'll agree. Until now, up in the air.

A fact is something like this- it is a fact that Luffy briefly considered inviting a Mink onto to his crew the second he met him, only to immediately change his mind because he already had Chopper.

Spoiler

It is a fact that Luffy upon meeting Carrot says that Zou is "like an island of Choppers"

Spoiler

And so it is a fact that Luffy has shown absolutely no desire to have a Mink on his crew as he thinks they are too similar to Chopper, and that Luffy showed more interest in having Pekoms on his crew within seconds of meeting him than he has in three arcs of interactions with Carrot.

It is a fact because Minks are born with it. It is how they can be identified.

Spoiler

Can you give me a panel that says that people can learn to talk to fish? No. Because its inherently an ability that Merman and Fishman have. Trying to associate anthropomorphic animals having similar traits and saying they can do the same thing when it is stated in the story that this is a Mink specific ability is nothing more than speculation. Fact is, unless you're a Mink, you can't make Electro because you can't "learn" it, it is a racial trait that the Mink Tribe are born with.

 

[Garp the Fist]

It is a fact because Minks are born with it. It is how they can be identified.

Spoiler

Can you give me a panel that says that people can't learn to talk to fish? No. Because its inherently an ability that Merman and Fishman have. Trying to associate anthropomorphic animals having similar traits and saying they can do the same thing when it is stated in the story that this is a Mink specific ability is nothing more than speculation. Fact is, unless you're a Mink, you can't make Electro because you can't "learn" it, it is a racial trait that the Mink Tribe are born with.

Ffs, none of those panels even say that Minks are born with Electro. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because I haven't read it for a while. The monkey says that they are born warriors, doesn't mention Electro. Carrot just says Randolph can't make Electro. Do you actually have a panel saying that only Minks can use Electro, or that they are born with it?

I can give you panels that say that Crocodile, a relatively well travelled man, believed that it was only mermaids who could speak to fish, and was surprised that Jinbei could as well. Showing that characters aren't infallible. Jinbei also asks if it seems strange that a Fishman would be friendly with fishfolk- I'll ape him and ask if it would be strange that a character who has been said to be like a Mink twice can learn to do what Minks can.

Spoiler

And I can show you a panel that talks about how even among the merfolk there are things that only some of them can do. Only Neptune can talk to whales. Only Shirahoshi can talk to Sea Kings.

Spoiler

All of which suggests that someone without an association with the sea like a Fishman or a Merfolk learning to talk to fish would be unlikely- but not impossible. The Voice of All Things exists, after all.

 

[MugiwaraMaster]

As of now, the Strawhat Fleet is kind of liking. It would be nice to have more crews join the fleet to help it grow in the future. The real question is who.

The Strawhats made countless great allies on their journey in the past, but most are either too far away or have a kingdom to serve. The Franky Family and Galley La are businesses, the Rolling Pirates will likely just form an alliance with the Firetank Pirates, Wyper and the Shandians likely have zero interest in ever wanting to join the Blue Sea to check on their heroes, Vivi is MIA while the people in Alabasta are likely in shambles, Dorry and Brogy will just continue fighting on Little Island, Oimu and Kashi are still waiting for Usopp in Elbaf, the Baratie has countless customers to serve than fight, Dalton and Kureha will likely just continue rebuild the Sakura Kingdom since Wapol's departure, the Usopp Pirates are just kids who would rather stay with Kaya, Crocodile and Daz Bones are off doing their own thing, Gin and the Kreig Pirates will probably never be seen again, Buggy’s crew is definitely on the run after the Marines came (Yes, he counts as an ally since he did help from ID to Marineford), Bon Clay is still imprisoned with no means of escaping, Ivankov is back with the Revolutionaries on his home island, the Kuja Pirates are on the run or already captured by the Marines, Gaimon is happily living on his island with a new girl, and the Rosy Red Pirates are probably still traveling around.

As far as future allies, they could gain new ones out of Wano to join them. This should be interesting.

 

[Visa]

Ffs, none of those panels even say that Minks are born with Electro. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because I haven't read it for a while. The monkey says that they are born warriors, doesn't mention Electro. Carrot just says Randolph can't make Electro. Do you actually have a panel saying that only Minks can use Electro, or that they are born with it?

I can give you panels that say that Crocodile, a relatively well travelled man, believed that it was only mermaids who could speak to fish, and was surprised that Jinbei could as well. Showing that characters aren't infallible. Jinbei also asks if it seems strange that a Fishman would be friendly with fishfolk- I'll ape him and ask if it would be strange that a character who has been said to be like a Mink twice can learn to do what Minks can.

Spoiler

And I can show you a panel that talks about how even among the merfolk there are things that only some of them can do. Only Neptune can talk to whales. Only Shirahoshi can talk to Sea Kings.

Spoiler

All of which suggests that someone without an association with the sea like a Fishman or a Merfolk learning to talk to fish would be unlikely- but not impossible. The Voice of All Things exists, after all.

First off, it is shown that young children already possessing it. Meaning they are born with it. They aren't taught, it's something they can naturally do. The inability to use it shows that you're not a Mink. It's not an association fallacy.


I can also tell you that Arlong could speak to Mohmoo, who was that giant Cow Fish Sea Monster back in Arlong Park. Crocodile only said that because he doesn't know the true extent of Fishmen nature as he describes them as barbaric. He represents the ignorance of the human world that Jinbe strives to solve...somehow.

EDIT: The Panels of Hatchi and Arlong talking to Mohmoo

Spoiler

 

[Garp the Fist]

First off, it is shown that young children already possessing it. Meaning they are born with it. They aren't taught, it's something they can naturally do. The inability to use it shows that you're not a Mink. It's not an association fallacy.

No, your panel shows that Minks are born able to fight, and that from a young age they can use Electro. Now, I'll assume that there's no hyperbole here about their "born warrior" status and that that little one really knew that fighting stance without any training, because weirder things have happened in One Piece.

It still does not say that they shoot out of their mother's womb crackling with lightning and able to use Electro.

And it is very much an association fallacy
A- Minks can use Electro from birth, potentially without training
B- Randolph cannot use Electro
Does not equal
C- Nobody else can use Electro.

I can also tell you that Arlong could speak to Mohmoo, who was that giant Cow Fish Sea Monster back in Arlong Park. Crocodile only said that because he doesn't know the true extent of Fishmen nature as he describes them as barbaric. He represents the ignorance of the human world that Jinbe strives to solve...somehow.

Wonderful. Don't see how that helps your case at all, mind you.

 

[Visa]

No, your panel shows that Minks are born able to fight, and that from a young age they can use Electro. Now, I'll assume that there's no hyperbole here about their "born warrior" status and that that little one really knew that fighting stance without any training, because weirder things have happened in One Piece.

It still does not say that they shoot out of their mother's womb crackling with lightning and able to use Electro.

And it is very much an association fallacy
A- Minks can use Electro from birth, potentially without training
B- Randolph cannot use Electro
Does not equal
C- Nobody else can use Electro.




Wonderful. Don't see how that helps your case at all, mind you.

Your whole argument runs on a no limits fallacy. It is a racial trait that they can use and how they can be identified as such. This has been stated in narrative. From birth, they have the natural instincts to fight and wield Electro.

Also, I just did show it. All that statement means is that Crocodile is an ignorant human who views Fishmen as violent creatures.

Spoiler