Controversial General Political Discussion

[Zenos7]

No. It is essentially the same thing since people claim that they are whatever they think to be b

Depends tbh. Im willing to wager most trans individuals dont think they changed sex.

There is still a distinction between gender and sex
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Which is not what he is saying. He is saying that people that explain that women can have a penis are science deniers.

Which is: Transphobia. He is also parading with an openly anti-trans activist.

So I ask you again, do you agree with this ?

Since women are by definition female, they dont have a penis.

Dont know the other person involved. But if that person argues for there being 2 sexes, they are correct.
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So either you are not aware of it like 90% of the writer on this planet or you are trying to deceive me.

Or you are trying to push your idea of politics being pretty much everywhere

 

[Herrera95]

Depends tbh. Im willing to wager most trans individuals dont think they changed sex.

There is still a distinction between gender and sex
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Since women are by definition female, they dont have a penis.

Dont know the other person involved. But if that person argues for there being 2 sexes, they are correct.

Sex and gender are the same. Woke came with this bullshit last century to justify their craziness and avoid to be called crazy.

 

[Zenos7]

Its of course simplified, but it works for literally ALL stories!

Values arent necessarily politics wtf
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For @Zemmi @AL sama @Uncle Van and for those who don't understand why I'm talking about politic in stories:

Its of course simplified, but it works for literally ALL stories!


Trans women are women and Trans men are men you transphobic piece of work.

Trans women are men who are transgender
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You can't make someone's message political when there is no intent on the creators' behalf except to make a realistic word.

Logiko can, so all your stories are inherently political but you are too dense to notice kappa
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You want all values to be political

I wonder if he thinks all song lyrics are political as well
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Sex and gender are the same. Woke came with this bullshit last century to justify their craziness and avoid to be called crazy.

Language evolves. Gender as a concept is now different to sex. At least in english (and my native language german). And considering how gender dysphoria is a legit condition, i dont get why that is such a problem to some peeps

 

[Ravagerblade]

For @Zemmi @AL sama @Uncle Van and for those who don't understand why I'm talking about politic in stories:

Its of course simplified, but it works for literally ALL stories!


Trans women are women and Trans men are men you transphobic piece of work.

They are not and never will be.

 

[Logiko]

you see the world in a political light and don't realize most people don't live their lives in such ways.

I do realize that people are no living necessaraly there lives under a political lense and as long as those people don't try to prevent others from having political discussions or as long as they don't give any opinion on the way to live in society, I'm fine with them.. But that's not what is happening and a lot of people are giving their opinion about the way we should live in society without understanding what politics are to begin with. Starting with this forum.

Self-sacrifice is a theme I love. It isn't a political message.

It is. Its completely political. Its a vision on the way to act in the world therefore its political. Simple as that. You can deny it all you want, it will not push away the political implication of stories.

I have a character who will die for his group, but will also kill innocent people if it saves just a single member of his group

Good, and how do you depict the killing of innocent ? Tell me. Do you make it look like the character is doing something normal ? Or do you write in the way for the audience to understands that its a mistakes ? Depending on the way you portray your character killing innocent, will follow your political vision of the world. Its storytelling 101.

A character could perfectly doing something VERY BAD... but if you portray this as an error, it will give the audience the message that they shuold not follow the same path. For example, in Star Wars 3, despite being the hero, Anakin slaughtering innocent is depicted not as an act of bravery, but as an act of complete confusion and a major crime and mistake. Lucas therefore wants the spectator to feel that killing innocent leads toward the dark side.

Context is key.

but you will have to define how such a thing is political when say in my universe there are no gov't consequences to his actions, there are no policies forbidding it. It's him being human and in short, doing what he wants.

I asked you a question just above to see. How do you portray the fact that your character is killing innocent ? The answer to this question will give you the political vision in which you see the path of your character.

You want all values to be political

Its not the values that are political, its the conflict of different value that creates politic.

Just to laugh a little, have you seen the youtube video about how anakin made his thesis about Darth plagueis?

Funny that you mention ROTS lol... that's one of the most political Star wars movie..

Im willing to wager most trans individuals dont think they changed sex.

Actually, most trans would love to change sex.

Since women are by definition female, they dont have a penis.

There is still a distinction between gender and sex

Stick to your definition instead of trying to be transphobe for no reasons.

Dont know the other person involved. But if that person argues for there being 2 sexes, they are correct.

Just so you know, the other person think that there should be less trans in society.

Or you are trying to push your idea of politics being pretty much everywhere

Or I know what I'm talking about. Storytelling and politization are not really the fields where you would want to spar with me mate.

Sex and gender are the same

Nop

Values arent necessarily politics wtf

Indeed, Value in itself are not politic. Its the conflict of value that creates politic.

Trans women are men who are transgender

Ok. i'm reporting you for that. I'm done with your transphobia. You are pushing the limits.

Logiko can, so all your stories are inherently political but you are too dense to notice kappa

No, just depoliticize. Its okay not to be aware of the political implication of stories. But when you are explained why, its questionnable to denies it.

I wonder if he thinks all song lyrics are political as well

It depends, so no.

i dont get why that is such a problem

It seems to be a problem for you to accept that trans women are women.

If you accept those concepts you literally has to admit that theres nothing unique about being a woman or a man and makes their value 0

There is nothing inherently unique in being a woman or a man. Stop the essentialization.

 

[Zenos7]

I will provide a different point of view since I hate this fad: it ignores reality and makes the act of being a men or woman just a costume that someone can use in a play, while forcing people outside to conform to their views.

If you accept those concepts you literally has to admit that theres nothing unique about being a woman or a man and makes their value 0. But the reality is that men and woman are different and experience reality in a different way (not to a point of making empathy impossible of course). A men literally will never be able to even see the world as a woman can ( women can see way more colors than men, the world is literally more beautiful). Even trying to force their bodies to change using chemicals is risky (the effects of normal hormones levels for men and woman in the opposite sex are damaging to the body).

Worse yet, the standard does not apply to others. If we see someone that thinks he is a Russian Tzar, we wouldn't force everyone to call him his highness but would try to accept who he really is. The same don't apply in this case. People are even getting jailed for this shit.

And those are just the surface level arguments against it.

It doesnt ignore reality at all. Trans individuals having gender dysphoria and having brain activity more similar to the opposite sex are part of reality. Them not being able to legit change their sex doesnt mean we cant use different pronouns for them or have possibilities of gender affirming care/surgery or stop discriminating against them.

We obviously shouldnt pretend like they belong to the other sex, which is why i said trans women are men who are transgender.

And if hormone therapy has side effects, so what? As long as they are aware of possible side effects, let them do what they want to do. People do all kinds of unhealthy shit to themselves that we dont interfere with
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Actually, most trans would love to change sex.

Exactly. Sad that it isnt possible
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Stick to your definition instead of trying to be transphobe for no reasons.

Im not transphobic and not trying to be either
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Just so you know, the other person think that there should be less trans in society.

Weird. I couldnt care less how many peeps are trans or any of the lgbt categories. Is that person a religious fundamentalist?
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Ok. i'm reporting you for that. I'm done with your transphobia. You are pushing the limits.

Keep reporting me for making true statements, couldnt care less about that as well
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It depends, so no

Why doesnt it depend with jokes and stories then? These are all just different types of art
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seems to be a problem for you to accept that trans women are women.

Because they arent

 

[Zemmi]

I do realize that people are no living necessaraly there lives under a political lense and as long as those people don't try to prevent others from having political discussions or as long as they don't give any opinion on the way to live in society, I'm fine with them.. But that's not what is happening and a lot of people are giving their opinion about the way we should live in society without understanding what politics are to begin with. Starting with this forum.



It is. Its completely political. Its a vision on the way to act in the world therefore its political. Simple as that. You can deny it all you want, it will not push away the political implication of stories.



Good, and how do you depict the killing of innocent ? Tell me. Do you make it look like the character is doing something normal ? Or do you write in the way for the audience to understands that its a mistakes ? Depending on the way you portray your character killing innocent, will follow your political vision of the world. Its storytelling 101.

A character could perfectly doing something VERY BAD... but if you portray this as an error, it will give the audience the message that they shuold not follow the same path. For example, in Star Wars 3, despite being the hero, Anakin slaughtering innocent is depicted not as an act of bravery, but as an act of complete confusion and a major crime and mistake. Lucas therefore wants the spectator to feel that killing innocent leads toward the dark side.

Context is key.



I asked you a question just above to see. How do you portray the fact that your character is killing innocent ? The answer to this question will give you the political vision in which you see the path of your character.


Its not the values that are political, its the conflict of different value that creates politic.


Funny that you mention ROTS lol... that's one of the most political Star wars movie..



Actually, most trans would love to change sex.




Stick to your definition instead of trying to be transphobe for no reasons.



Just so you know, the other person think that there should be less trans in society.



Or I know what I'm talking about. Storytelling and politization are not really the fields where you would want to spar with me mate.



Nop



Indeed, Value in itself are not politic. Its the conflict of value that creates politic.


Ok. i'm reporting you for that. I'm done with your transphobia. You are pushing the limits.



No, just depoliticize. Its okay not to be aware of the political implication of stories. But when you are explained why, its questionnable to denies it.



It depends, so no.



It seems to be a problem for you to accept that trans women are women.



There is nothing inherently unique in being a woman or a man. Stop the essentialization.

The story is in a very different world than ours, most of my characters are NOT written to be 'good guys' they live in a world that justifies their actions whether they be bad or good. It is written that it's the only way and they have to deal with the ramifications of their actions by losing several of their own and also the retribution of different people of their own and of those they attacked.

This is the point where I can tell you it's not political. This universe doesn't exist. My characters have redemption in their actions because it follows the rules of the world they live in, not in ours. I wouldn't expect people to apply anything of this to real life.

That's why it's not a good idea to make everything political. You want to add a political stance on something fictional, completely fabricated scenarios, that we will never face.

 

[Uncle Van]

I'm curious...there's a good chunk of the trans community that says there are only 2 sexes and genders, and they simply identify as the opposite gender as it makes them happy. There's also a good chunk of the trans community that thinks trans women shouldn't be in women's sports.

Are these trans people transphobic? Or is this simply an issue of people twisting definitions on the fly for convenience?

 

[AL sama]

talking about reality while living in a bubble

 

[Logiko]

Exactly. Sad that it isnt possible

What are you talking about ? It IS possible. Its an extremelly long procedure but humans can make wonders.

having brain activity more similar to the opposite sex are part of reality.

We don't know that. We know very little about gender disphoria.

Im not transphobic and not trying to be either

Dude..

Weird

Hm .. I would say "fascist" but yeah "weird" works too I guess..

Is that person a religious fundamentalist?

Nop, most probably a Terf. I would need to make more researches.

Keep reporting me for making true statements, couldnt care less about that as well

You don't make true statement, you make false one based on wrong and transphobic definitions. So report it is, sorry..

Why doesnt it depend with jokes and stories then? These are all just different types of art

Well technically, you could argue that the action of creating song is political. I would even accept that explanation. But if we want to understand what politics really is (being a conflict of value about the way to act in the world), songs don't do that, Jokes on the other hand will most likely do. (at least when they are not random jokes about random stuff)

Because they arent

And you don't understand why you are transphobe.. ? Well, ask any trans about what you just said..

The story is in a very different world than ours, most of my characters are NOT written to be 'good guys' they live in a world that justifies their actions whether they be bad or good.

Let me precise my question : do you depict the action of killing innocent as "good" or "normal" in your story ?

My characters have redemption in their actions because it follows the rules of the world they live in, not in ours

That would answer my question, but I will still wait for the answer.

That's why it's not a good idea to make everything political

You will (logically) understand that its not a choice that you have. Every stories are political weither you want it or not (and I already have a glimps of your political vision of your story, but I will wait for the answer to my last question)

Another question (this one might be actually more important) you can answer to this one under the spoiler tag (you don't have to answer):

What final choice and final conflict your main protagonist(s) will have to deal with at the end of your story, in other words, what kind of definitive dilemma will you put them into ?

Are these trans people transphobic?

Transidentity can happen to anyone. Meaning that a transperson can be someone with a complete ignorance of the existence of gender identities issues in the world. They will most likely not be a large number (its not really "a good chunk", its rather a small minority) and will not be aware of those fight and therefore fight against their own interest.

It happens a lot with LGB people. You will see sometime those person agree with politics that completely goes against their own interest out of ignorance about the subject and the political .

 

[Zemmi]

What are you talking about ? It IS possible. Its an extremelly long procedure but humans can make wonders.



We don't know that. We know very little about gender disphoria.



Dude..



Hm .. I would say "fascist" but yeah "weird" works too I guess..



Nop, most probably a Terf. I would need to make more researches.


You don't make true statement, you make false one based on wrong and transphobic definitions. So report it is, sorry..



Well technically, you could argue that the action of creating song is political. I would even accept that explanation. But if we want to understand what politics really is (being a conflict of value about the way to act in the world), songs don't do that, Jokes on the other hand will most likely do. (at least when they are not random jokes about random stuff)



And you don't understand why you are transphobe.. ? Well, ask any trans about what you just said..



Let me precise my question : do you depict the action of killing innocent as "good" or "normal" in your story ?



That would answer my question, but I will still wait for the answer.



You will (logically) understand that its not a choice that you have. Every stories are political weither you want it or not (and I already have a glimps of your political vision of your story, but I will wait for the answer to my last question)

Another question (this one might be actually more important) you can answer to this one under the spoiler tag (you don't have to answer):

What final choice and final conflict your main protagonist(s) will have to deal with at the end of your story, in other words, what kind of definitive dilemma will you put them into ?



Transidentity can happen to anyone. Meaning that a transperson can be someone with a complete ignorance of the existence of gender identities issues in the world. They will most likely not be a large number (its not really "a good chunk", its rather a small minority) and will not be aware of those fight and therefore fight against their own interest.

It happens a lot with LGB people. You will see sometime those person agree with politics that completely goes against their own interest out of ignorance about the subject and the political .

Simple answer they deem what they did the only choice and it's written as they did what was right. They regret some outcomes, but in the end they did what was right for them.

The ending of it won't serve you.

 

[Zenos7]

It IS possible

Not really

 

[Logiko]

Simple answer they deem what they did the only choice and it's written as they did what was right. They regret some outcomes, but in the end they did what was right for them.

The ending of it won't serve you.

Hm.. Maybe its me who don't ask the question correctly: Is "killing innocent" portrayed as something very impactfull and hard to process or is it just portrayed as something normal ?

Let's take the trolley problem applied to a science fiction story as an exemple:

Let's say that the spaceship of the Shogun of the galaxy is on a crashing course toward the city of Tokyo, Japon, year 11615.
There is a failsafe in the system of the ship, the shogun would be instantly teleported because of the closeness with the land, but the crash would create an atomic explosion and no one can stop the crash from happening now.

The character is the best samourai of the Shogun (samourai serve their lords with their lives). He in the command of the Togatta defense force (a space station with a powerfull laser). He has the choice between letting the ship fall and saving the shogun because of the failsafe.. or exploding the ship midair to prevent the destruction of Tokyo and millions of people but preventing the failsafe from activating and thus killing the Shogun, which could start an interstellar war for power.

Now.. let's say that the character chooses to let million people die for the shogun to be teleported away because of the failsafe.

Well.. no matter the way you will depict the character's actions and the consequences of his action in his mind and environment, you will have given a political vision on how to act in the world.

The ending of it won't serve you.

On the contrary, the end will tell everything. The nature of your final dilemma is serving as a catalysis for your political vision. So its very important.

Not really

Yes really. I don't recommend that you make researches about that, especially on google image, but trust me, we can do that. And its also technically reversible. Again, humans can make wonders.

 

[Zemmi]

Hm.. Maybe its me who don't ask the question correctly: Is "killing innocent" portrayed as something very impactfull and hard to process or is it just portrayed as something normal ?

Let's take the trolley problem applied to a science fiction story as an exemple:

Let's say that the spaceship of the Shogun of the galaxy is on a crashing course toward the city of Tokyo, Japon, year 11615.
There is a failsafe in the system of the ship, the shogun would be instantly teleported because of the closeness with the land, but the crash would create an atomic explosion and no one can stop the crash from happening now.

The character is the best samourai of the Shogun (samourai serve their lords with their lives). He in the command of the Togatta defense force (a space station with a powerfull laser). He has the choice between letting the ship fall and saving the shogun because of the failsafe.. or exploding the ship midair to prevent the destruction of Tokyo and millions of people but preventing the failsafe from activating and thus killing the Shogun, which could start an interstellar war for power.

Now.. let's say that the character chooses to let million people die for the shogun to be teleported away because of the failsafe.

Well.. no matter the way you will depict the character's actions and the consequences of his action in his mind and environment, you will have given a political vision on how to act in the world.




On the contrary, the end will tell everything. The nature of your final dilemma is serving as a catalysis for your political vision. So its very important.




Yes really. I don't recommend that you make researches about that, especially on google image, but trust me, we can do that. And its also technically reversible. Again, humans can make wonders.

Mostly, they are indifferent to those who were killed that lived on the compound they attacked. Only one person of the group knows the people personally and he decides not to look at them. They only regret the number of their people they lost, but find it justifiable.

 

[Logiko]

Mostly, they are indifferent to those who were killed that lived on the compound they attacked. Only one person of the group knows the people personally and he decides not to look at them. They only regret the number of their people they lost, but find it justifiable.

Is there anyone in the story questionning the action of the character ?

 

[AL sama]

I just realized something

logko is a feminist. woke, sociologist, psychologist, historian, politician, doctor, businessman, writer, journalist, software engineer, scientist, realist, military person, police, and................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... a weeb

he knows it all so its pointless to talk with him

 

[Logiko]

I just realized something

logko is a feminist. woke, sociologist, psychologist, historian, politician, doctor, businessman, writer, journalist, software engineer, scientist, realist, military person, police, and................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... a weeb

he knows it all so its pointless to talk with him

In all those things, you got only one right.

 

[Saturn-sama]

I just realized something

logko is a feminist. woke, sociologist, psychologist, historian, politician, doctor, businessman, writer, journalist, software engineer, scientist, realist, military person, police, and................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... a weeb

he knows it all so its pointless to talk with him

If he is a software-engineer, then I am mother Theresa

 

[Logiko]

If he is a software-engineer, then I am mother Theresa

Lol, I'm not Barbie dude

 

[Zemmi]

I just realized something

logko is a feminist. woke, sociologist, psychologist, historian, politician, doctor, businessman, writer, journalist, software engineer, scientist, realist, military person, police, and................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... a weeb

he knows it all so its pointless to talk with him

That makes me feel like a real underachiever.