Controversial General Political Discussion
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The bar is so low that if you think you have ANY semblance of control over anything in your life, in any specific circumstance, then you're a full fledged believer and pusher of meritocracy. There is no room for nuisance. "It depends" doesn't exist apparently.
We need the illusion of control. The problem that you don't understand comes with the injonction of taking control.
Its not anyone's place to tell to a poor person how to improve their life, simply because they don't know it
Its not anyone's business to tell to a mentally ill person how to improve their life, simply because its not them who are in control
And its not your or anyone elses role to tell to a far person how they should improve their life, simply because you or anyone, don't know what they are living.
People needs support, not development coatch.
Do you see the nuance here ?
Because the hearth of our opposition is based in all subjects around the same biases and lack of understanding.
Its not anyone's place to tell to a poor person how to improve their life, simply because they don't know it
Its not anyone's business to tell to a mentally ill person how to improve their life, simply because its not them who are in control
And its not your or anyone elses role to tell to a far person how they should improve their life, simply because you or anyone, don't know what they are living.
People needs support, not development coatch.
Do you see the nuance here ?
I was discussing something entirely different with roo yet logiko somehow connected that with this
Where is the belief in a pure meritocracy? Where is me saying that people don't need support? Where does it mention mentally ill people? How does saying someone shouldn't be reliant on the approval and acceptance of others reject the idea of support? Do you even know the context? So many assumptions.
There's a difference between giving your stance on specific matters, and matters as a whole( i.e. speaking of woke leftism in entertainment vs leftism as a whole). There's a also a difference in mentioning your personal feelings/preferences on a matter, and giving general information based on history(i.e. speaking about how I dislike the hypocritical nonsense of the modern left vs the propaganda right wingers spewed throughout recent history).
Politics in general are very complicated and nuisanced, flooded with context. So many try to simplify politics into a black vs white/me vs them narrative. Politics isn't a two man brawl.
Politics in general are very complicated and nuisanced, flooded with context. So many try to simplify politics into a black vs white/me vs them narrative. Politics isn't a two man brawl.
And usual, using a political term wrong by definition.
A Meritocracy by definition, is the notion of a political system in which economic goods or political power are vested in individual people based on ability and talent, rather than wealth, social class, or race.
The amount of times are I ranted about "self made" billionaires, corruption, lobbying, propaganda, affirmative action and Sleepy Joe Biden etc. means I don't believe in this system by definition lmao
A Meritocracy by definition, is the notion of a political system in which economic goods or political power are vested in individual people based on ability and talent, rather than wealth, social class, or race.
The amount of times are I ranted about "self made" billionaires, corruption, lobbying, propaganda, affirmative action and Sleepy Joe Biden etc. means I don't believe in this system by definition lmao
Ok. There is a missunderstanding of what I said here, so let's break it down slowly since you are making the effort of replying to me for once:
1. I did not said that you believed in pure meritocracy. I said that...
This is absolutely NOT the same thing. In your sentence, I would be explaining that you believe in hardcore meritocracy but that not what I said or meant. I'm only explaining that your mindset is a PRODUCT of pure meritocracy. A SOCIOLOGICAL product of capitalism that everyone under the system has, NOT your specific belief in particular. If you want a example, its like saying that marxism is a product of Materialism.
2.
I never said that you meant that people don't need support. I didn't even evocated the glimps of the idea. What I said is that your conception of support is inherently TOXIC. Not because you are toxic per say, but because this beliefs (the belief that we should be able to tell to people in difficulty that they can improve themself and/or how to improve themself) is inherently hurtfull, unproductive and a product of our capitalist society as a whole. A society that is NOT funtionning well, especially because people who are seens as non productive or non active in their own condition are considered not worthy.
This therefore include the third point :
3. I know you didn't mention mentally ill people, but I wanted to make you understand that what you are trying to say to obese people is the SAME things that people are saying to mentally ill people like me or poor people in difficulty.
In ALL cases, the action of the person to better their condition is INVISIBLE and INVISIBILIZED to and by society, so my point is to tell you that (UNLESS THEY ASK FOR IT) those people DON'T NEED other people to tell them that they can improve themself, they are already trying to do it every damn second of their lives. Explaining to them "you can do better, you can improve yourself, you can reach the sky if you believe in yourself", is basically like if you say to those people "I don't know what you are living, I don't understand what you are going through and I don't see that you are making efforts so I'm telling you how to act". This, is not support, its torture !
I explained to you the case of mentally ill people especially because this is what I lived during 10 years of my life by almost EVERYONE.
What I wanted is what all person in my condition or in the condition of fat people want : for my struggle to be recognized. For my war to be understood and for my own self to be legitimized as a worthy individual.
You see.. When the ENTIRE society is showing you that you are not worthy as a member of society because you are unfit, ill or fat, recognition and complete acceptation WITHOUT question or advice is VITAL !
Once again, like I explained to you, the day my father put his hand on my hearth beating at racing speed because of the accumulated stress and anxiety due to those injonctions and voidness and said to me that he now understood that I'm not writing or not working because I don't want to.. it OPENED my world and I was able to go to seek a psychiatrist because of that.
I really want you to understand that Validation is not just a buzzword mate. It's life saving ! For me, for fat people, for LgbtI+, for muslim, for jews, for women, for poor people, for EVERYONE.
And if you want an example of real support: Read One Piece.
Understand that you must accept and support people through THEIR actions, through THEIR DREAMS and THEIR fights, NOT your expectations or beliefs.
Not really no. Politics are actually pretty simple. What is nuanced is the context, but the politics, in other word, the conflict here:
... is actually very simple.
What is hard is to uncover the secrets of politics and unlearn what we know as being normal in our society.
Politics IS a Me VS them . Politics is conflict. Its the clash of ideas and values.
1. I did not said that you believed in pure meritocracy. I said that...
This is absolutely NOT the same thing. In your sentence, I would be explaining that you believe in hardcore meritocracy but that not what I said or meant. I'm only explaining that your mindset is a PRODUCT of pure meritocracy. A SOCIOLOGICAL product of capitalism that everyone under the system has, NOT your specific belief in particular. If you want a example, its like saying that marxism is a product of Materialism.
2.
I never said that you meant that people don't need support. I didn't even evocated the glimps of the idea. What I said is that your conception of support is inherently TOXIC. Not because you are toxic per say, but because this beliefs (the belief that we should be able to tell to people in difficulty that they can improve themself and/or how to improve themself) is inherently hurtfull, unproductive and a product of our capitalist society as a whole. A society that is NOT funtionning well, especially because people who are seens as non productive or non active in their own condition are considered not worthy.
This therefore include the third point :
3. I know you didn't mention mentally ill people, but I wanted to make you understand that what you are trying to say to obese people is the SAME things that people are saying to mentally ill people like me or poor people in difficulty.
In ALL cases, the action of the person to better their condition is INVISIBLE and INVISIBILIZED to and by society, so my point is to tell you that (UNLESS THEY ASK FOR IT) those people DON'T NEED other people to tell them that they can improve themself, they are already trying to do it every damn second of their lives. Explaining to them "you can do better, you can improve yourself, you can reach the sky if you believe in yourself", is basically like if you say to those people "I don't know what you are living, I don't understand what you are going through and I don't see that you are making efforts so I'm telling you how to act". This, is not support, its torture !
I explained to you the case of mentally ill people especially because this is what I lived during 10 years of my life by almost EVERYONE.
What I wanted is what all person in my condition or in the condition of fat people want : for my struggle to be recognized. For my war to be understood and for my own self to be legitimized as a worthy individual.
You see.. When the ENTIRE society is showing you that you are not worthy as a member of society because you are unfit, ill or fat, recognition and complete acceptation WITHOUT question or advice is VITAL !
Once again, like I explained to you, the day my father put his hand on my hearth beating at racing speed because of the accumulated stress and anxiety due to those injonctions and voidness and said to me that he now understood that I'm not writing or not working because I don't want to.. it OPENED my world and I was able to go to seek a psychiatrist because of that.
I really want you to understand that Validation is not just a buzzword mate. It's life saving ! For me, for fat people, for LgbtI+, for muslim, for jews, for women, for poor people, for EVERYONE.
And if you want an example of real support: Read One Piece.
Understand that you must accept and support people through THEIR actions, through THEIR DREAMS and THEIR fights, NOT your expectations or beliefs.
Not really no. Politics are actually pretty simple. What is nuanced is the context, but the politics, in other word, the conflict here:
... is actually very simple.
What is hard is to uncover the secrets of politics and unlearn what we know as being normal in our society.
Politics IS a Me VS them . Politics is conflict. Its the clash of ideas and values.
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And that the problem. Like Zenos, you are sticking to the definition.
The political sociology and reality of meritocracy is not limited to this definition. Meritocracy, just like Transphobia or Systemic Racism or Patriarchy can be seen in a larger area.
For example:
- Systemic racism can be seen against Asian American in the form of positive discrimination.
- Transphobia can be seen in a feminist calling a Trans women a man
- Patriarchy can be seen through some of the struggles of men in society
- The myth of Meritocracy can be observed in the way towns are constructed and/or abandonned.
Dude, if you think that I'm depressed and that I think that there is no much that can be done to better my or our condition, you are delusionnal.
Really... just observe the way i'm acting on this forum. Do you feel like this is the words of a sad and defeated leftist with no will power ?
The political sociology and reality of meritocracy is not limited to this definition. Meritocracy, just like Transphobia or Systemic Racism or Patriarchy can be seen in a larger area.
For example:
- Systemic racism can be seen against Asian American in the form of positive discrimination.
- Transphobia can be seen in a feminist calling a Trans women a man
- Patriarchy can be seen through some of the struggles of men in society
- The myth of Meritocracy can be observed in the way towns are constructed and/or abandonned.
Dude, if you think that I'm depressed and that I think that there is no much that can be done to better my or our condition, you are delusionnal.
Really... just observe the way i'm acting on this forum. Do you feel like this is the words of a sad and defeated leftist with no will power ?
