Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Black men overwhelmingly commit most of the crimes in the U.S. Do then white people get to act on their prejudices?

First. If by acting you are saying attack black people, then no. Just like no women will attack men.
Second. If by acting you are saying destroy systemic racism that create the fact black people are outcasted by society, marginalized, lost in poverty and therefore overrepresented in prison, then yes, white people should act and destroy systemic racism.

You see, in one case there is no prejudice because all men ARE in fact all sexist in their lives and in the other there is one because its racism the problem and not black people.

So your comparison is fallacious.

You are once again proving that you are not a leftist since you don't understand the difference here.

 

[Roo]

You see, in one case there is no prejudice because all men ARE in fact all sexist in their lives

This is quite literally prejudice

no I don’t want to be your definition of leftist. You want to be “one of the good ones” when that phrase disgusts me

 

[Logiko]

This is quite literally prejudice

No. That's a fact mate.

In a patriarcal society like ours its IMPOSSIBLE for a man not to be sexist at least once in his lifetime.

Leftists are not "the good ones" they are the "right ones". If you are not a leftist, you are politically on the wrong side:
- Of reality
- Of science
- Of history

 

[Mathias]

That would be right if both case were comparable. But in reality they are not. In the case of the US, there is indeed a small % of the population that is bigoted and voted trump and therefore we can't say that all american are racist.

But for men, that's not the case. EVERY MEN without exception me included have been educated under a patriarcal toxic system and are benefiting from it and that is a system of oppression against women. So while there are indeed people who will never do or say something sexist toxic or harmfull to women (which would be a very VERY rare case) in their life, ALL men are potential abusers.

So while saying "all american" is false, saying "all men" is a base of truth.

Small percentage lmao, it’s half of the population and the second record in US history in popular vote.

EVERY american has been living in the same country subject to the same set of mentality. Same for ALL MEN under patriarchy.

In a patriarcal society like ours its IMPOSSIBLE for a man not to be sexist at least once in his lifetime.

You’re literally making a case for purity here.

"In a racist society like ours its IMPOSSIBLE for whites not to be racist at least once in his lifetime."
"In a transphobic society like ours its IMPOSSIBLE for a cis not to be transphobic at least once in his lifetime."

 

[Logiko]

Small percentage lmao, it’s half of the population and the second record in US history in popular vote.

Granted, it still not something that we can generalize to the entire population.

You’re literally making a case for purity here.

"In a racist society like ours its IMPOSSIBLE for whites not to be racist at least once in his lifetime."
"In a transphobic society like ours its IMPOSSIBLE for a cis not to be transphobic at least once in his lifetime."

Its not purity, its just factual.

And yes in a racist and transphobic society such as ourself its impossible not to have transphobic and racist biases.

The point is that we are ALL socialized by our environment and our environment is patriarcal, sexist, racist, ableist and transphobic. Now, the question is not "who is not like that ?" the question is "How do we change our environment for things to change ?"

The first step is to accept that we are not saint, none of us, especially men. Then we can act.

 

[Mathias]

Its not purity, its just factual.

And yes in a racist and transphobic society such as ourself its impossible not to have transphobic and racist biases.

The point is that we are ALL socialized by our environment and our environment is patriarcal, sexist, racist, ableist and transphobic. Now, the question is not "who is not like that ?" the question is "How do we change our environment for things to change ?"

The first step is to accept that we are not saint, none of us, especially men. Then we can act.

That's fair, still won't think stuff like "ALL whites are united to hate on Turks" because it remains fairly ridiculous.

Do people "who try to change our environment for things to change" are also sexist and racist ?

 

[Logiko]

Do people "who try to change our environment for things to change" are also sexist and racist ?

Yes of course. Its not because we become leftist materialists that all our sexist, transphobic, racist and ableist biases will magically disappear. Of course those behaviors will be less important and predominant but anyone can have those bias, even people with the best intentions. I myself had to dealt with a lot of racist and meritocratic biases in the last few years despite the fact that I've considered myself a leftist for quite some time now.

We are not perfect. The important thing is to do our best to be better. Our actions will speak for us.

 

[Mathias]

Yes of course. Its not because we become leftist materialists that all our sexist, transphobic, racist and ableist biases will magically disappear. Of course those behaviors will be less important and predominant but anyone can have those bias, even people with the best intentions. I myself had to dealt with a lot of racist and meritocratic biases in the last few years despite the fact that I've considered myself a leftist for quite some time now.

We are not perfect. The important thing is to do our best to be better. Our actions will speak for us.

You actually really believe that transgender black women is the purest form of leftism ?

I won't follow this kind of radically pointless perspective. I think you can be not racist, not sexist and so on. No need to be an hardcore activist who is trying to purify society and themselves to the bone but cannot because of their skin & gender...

 

[Herrera95]

What the foods of Rio Grande do Sul at South of Brazil can teach us?

First of all that the climate changes isn't necessarily what is causing those tremendous natural disasters. Yes this flood is the worst in 80 years and activists are at least 40 years claiming we are doom because of oil and other stuff so for those 40 years we are "harming" the environment we didn't had flood of the same level as 80 years before until now?

https://www.news9live.com/videos/wo...om-worst-floods-in-80-years-video-2525525/amp

Also we've learned that the governament is inefficient and that private initiative is more than capable of helping people out

https://www.infomoney.com.br/busine...-vitimas-no-rio-grande-do-sul-veja-acoes/amp/

Translate the page and see how many private companies are helping in many ways. That's the brutality of capitalism some complain about it.

And as a bonus the infrastructure made by private initiative is cheaper and better done the one made by government

https://revistaoeste.com/brasil/ponte-do-rs-construida-pelo-povo-resiste-as-enchentes/

Translate it and see how the bridge made by the very own population resisted the flooding while the ones made by governament got carried away and costed way more.

 

[Uncle Van]

Why am I so certain the patriarch debate relies on using the term incorrectly by definition and ignoring history?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Why am I so certain the patriarch debate relies on using the term incorrectly by definition and ignoring history?

What would you say is the incorrect definition

 

[Ravagerblade]

Why am I so certain the patriarch debate relies on using the term incorrectly by definition and ignoring history?

Either way there isn't a patriarchy, least not in Western Modern day

 

[Logiko]

You actually really believe that transgender black women is the purest form of leftism ?

Why would it be ? Having an identity doesn't necessarally mean that you understand everything about the fight related to this identity.

A black transwomen could simply be no aware of all the leftist fights (present in my library), that's very unlikely but its possible so I do not use identity to say that one person is a good leftist or not. I'm only looking at their ideology.

If a black trans women is supporting the meritocracy and other rightist ideologies, then she will be a rightist, not a leftist.

I think you can be not racist, not sexist and so on

Everyone is not racist and sexist most of the time, what is important to understand is that we all have racist and sexist bias. That's what I mean when I say that we are all sexist and racist because of our education.

First of all that the climate changes isn't necessarily what is causing those tremendous natural disasters.

Where do you see that ?

Also we've learned that the governament is inefficient and that private initiative is more than capable of helping people out

https://www.infomoney.com.br/busine...-vitimas-no-rio-grande-do-sul-veja-acoes/amp/

Translate the page and see how many private companies are helping in many ways. That's the brutality of capitalism some complain about it.

And as a bonus the infrastructure made by private initiative is cheaper and better done the one made by government

https://revistaoeste.com/brasil/ponte-do-rs-construida-pelo-povo-resiste-as-enchentes/

Translate it and see how the bridge made by the very own population resisted the flooding while the ones made by governament got carried away and costed way more.

Your pro-capitalist fallacious rethoric is convincing no one mate

Why am I so certain the patriarch debate relies on using the term incorrectly by definition and ignoring history?

The first step in understanding language is to understand that it evolves and sticking to dictionnary definition while missunderstanding historical context is big problem

Either way there isn't a patriarchy, least not in Western Modern day

Its a scientific consensus mate. Time to wake up. (And if you start saying to me "only in your bias science" then you are missunderstanding and missinterprating what science is to begin with. If you don't understand that social sciences are part of science, its time to grow up.)

 

[Ravagerblade]

Why would it be ? Having an identity doesn't necessarally mean that you understand everything about the fight related to this identity.

A black transwomen could simply be no aware of all the leftist fights (present in my library), that's very unlikely but its possible so I do not use identity to say that one person is a good leftist or not. I'm only looking at their ideology.

If a black trans women is supporting the meritocracy and other rightist ideologies, then she will be a rightist, not a leftist.



Everyone is not racist and sexist most of the time, what is important to understand is that we all have racist and sexist bias. That's what I mean when I say that we are all sexist and racist because of our education.



Where do you see that ?



Your pro-capitalist fallacious rethoric is convincing no one mate



The first step in understanding language is to understand that it evolves and sticking to dictionnary definition while missunderstanding historical context is big problem



Its a scientific consensus mate. Time to wake up. (And if you start saying to me "only in your bias science" then you are missunderstanding and missinterprating what science is to begin with. If you don't understand that social sciences are part of science, its time to grow up.)

Your concensus can and is wrong bub. Even if there have been certain issues regarding race, sexist etc, they were never as big issue's as what's been described upon by the screeching 4th wave feminists etc. No doubt things could be better but they were not as bad as claimed or it's been misrepresented because your side does in fact have an agenda.
Gamer Gate 2 etc...

 

[Herrera95]

Where do you see that ?

I explained right after the next sentence.

Your pro-capitalist fallacious rethoric is convincing no one mate

Maybe but is definitely saving more lifes than governaments could ever do.

 

[Uncle Van]

What would you say is the incorrect definition

The correct definition is a society, whether systematic and/or cultural, that excludes women from postions of power or inheritance.

The first step in understanding language is to understand that it evolves and sticking to dictionnary definition while missunderstanding historical context is big problem

Completely moronic yet consistent of you to believe a someone's own personal interpretation of a word(that leads to infinite versions) holds weight over an official definition used by the majority for most of its existence. You don't dictate language.

Either way there isn't a patriarchy, least not in Western Modern day

The very fact that there's nothing stopping women from holding positions of power, and in fact has the law cater to them, proves that there's no western patriarchy by definition. The fact that it was so non existent that they had to make up the wage gap is very telling.

 

[Ravagerblade]

The correct definition is a society, whether systematic and/or cultural, that excludes women from postions of power or inheritance.



Completely moronic yet consistent of you to believe a someone's own personal interpretation of a word(that leads to infinite versions) holds weight over an official definition used by the majestic for most of its existence. You don't dictate language.



The very fact that there's nothing stopping women from holding positions of power, and in fact has the law cater to them, proves that there's no western patriarchy by definition. The fact that it was so non existent that they had to make up the wage gap is very telling.

Hitting the nail on its head.

 

[Logiko]

Your concensus can and is wrong bub.

You know that you have the same rethoric as a flat earther, right ?

Even if there have been certain issues regarding race, sexist etc, they were never as big issue's as what's been described upon by the screeching 4th wave feminists etc.

Go tell that to researchers who are finding a LOT of issue still.

Maybe but is definitely saving more lifes than governaments could ever do.

Capitalism saving lives ? Dude, your country's cities are full of what you guys call "favelas", don't tell me that capitalism is saving lives.

Completely moronic yet consistent of you to believe a someone's own personal interpretation of a word(that leads to infinite versions) holds weight over an official definition used by the majority for most of its existence. You don't dictate language.

Indeed, noone dictates language. Only one thing does and its called: "USAGE" . That's why someone searching for dictionnary definition is simply delulu.

What you can do however is look for contextual and historical context of this usage to understand how definition are evolving through time and space.

Linguistic is very important and those who claim that there is a right and a wrong definition for words are usually not understanding it.

that there's nothing stopping women from holding positions of power,

Dude.. come on. Educate yourself:

- [SCIENTIFIC RESSOURCE] - What is Patriarchy - The main scientific definitions
- [STUDY] - Theorizing Patriarchy
- [STUDY] - Women researchers are cited less than men
- [SCIENTIFIC ARTICLE AND STUDIES] - Women researchers are cited less than men and what can be done about it
- [DATA REPORT] - USA : Women are more likely to be paid less
- [STUDY] - Russia : Why women are less likely to access structures of power
- [STUDY] - Women's perception and expectations of having less power in leadership decreases their desire to seek leadership

 

[Herrera95]

Capitalism saving lives ? Dude, your country's cities are full of what you guys call "favelas", don't tell me that capitalism is saving lives.

And you know how they were made? SOCIALISM!!! High tax and corruption preventing the country from developing. Anti police politics preventing them from fighting crime. Anti jail politics preventing justice system to keep criminals in jail. All that made our country be almost ruled by crime.

 

[Logiko]

And you know how they were made? SOCIALISM!!!

No mate. Poverty is the symptom of capitalism. If you consider that some people deserve to be poor, then you create a meritocracy and a broken system.