Controversial General Political Discussion

[Z-Saber]

I didn't call you that. I'm only explaining that comparing disabilities and putting some disabilities are more legitimate than others is one of the trick of the ableist side capitalism to entertain the idea that some people are more valuable than others.

No matter where we look, we come back to the concept of meritocracy. Someone with a wheelchair will be seen as a legitimate disabled person, but those with invisible disability (autism or ADHD for example) will suffer the might of the hammer of capitalism and meritocracy.

Well hey, I'm not the type of person to assign value to people. Life is life and you can't measure that. I've also dealt with people who have Autism, ADHD and even severe psychosis and I've seen these people work through these conditions, its nothing short of amazing. I would never downplay them but seeing as how they are fully healthy physically as in they have a fully abled body, I wouldn't put them in the same category of people who live their lives bed ridden or people who are missing limbs. Personally, I just think you're failing to see the situation from any other view point than your own. I'm not asking you to agree with it, but you should be able to understand it. And no its not a disability ranking, but all disabilities are not equal.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

If someone says the minimum wage should increase to $30 and I say that idea is stupid, they will start screaming about how I'm a horrible person, wanted people to be poor and suffer. My personal feelings are irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that corporations would just fire a ton of people and increase prices, making it bad for everyone, as it happened again and again.

It's this post
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-political-discussion.37255/post-5288921

That just shows a complete lack of nuance and critical thinking skills as far as I'm concerned because what you're saying is true here. I agree with that older post as well.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

And for those who are interested by my reply to this post and why I call Van for appropriating here the talking points of confusionnists, rightist and far rightist :

I think I'll go back and read this conversation so that I'm up to speed on the situation.

 

[Uncle Van]

Well hey, I'm not the type of person to assign value to people. Life is life and you can't measure that. I've also dealt with people who have Autism, ADHD and even severe psychosis and I've seen these people work through these conditions, its nothing short of amazing. I would never downplay them but seeing as how they are fully healthy physically as in they have a fully abled body, I wouldn't put them in the same category of people who live their lives bed ridden or people who are missing limbs. Personally, I just think you're failing to see the situation from any other view point than your own. I'm not asking you to agree with it, but you should be able to understand it. And no its not a disability ranking, but all disabilities are not equal.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

That just shows a complete lack of nuance and critical thinking skills as far as I'm concerned because what you're saying is true here. I agree with that older post as well.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

I think I'll go back and read this conversation so that I'm up to speed on the situation.

To help you get up to speed, my point is that every movement has morons, and it's these morons that the media will hand all the attention to in order to paint a narrative and push moral panic. Whenever I mention examples, Logiko says that it isn't true and that I'm helping push moral panic.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Ok this alone is just more proof that you don't understand even the basics. Just increasing minimum wage to $30 an hour wont solve the problem. There is nothing stopping corporations from simply firing a chunk of their workers and gouging prices, making the worker class suffer even more. There are no regulations in place to stop that right now.

It's so simple....

haha Increasing the minimum wage has done horrible damage to our economy. If the idiots can't see that, They are beyond hopeless. Everything will just get an increase in price because of it.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

People got their personal own sense of right and wrong, and judge everything from their own moral standpoint. There's rarely practical posts from a general or historical standpoint.

If someone says the minimum wage should increase to $30 and I say that idea is stupid, they will start screaming about how I'm a horrible person, wanted people to be poor and suffer. My personal feelings are irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that corporations would just fire a ton of people and increase prices, making it bad for everyone, as it happened again and again.

It's this post
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-political-discussion.37255/post-5288921

As for that post, Most people Don't use that as to determine Being left or Right. It's the Big Picture of Political Alignment but most people only look at the Political Parties etc not the Alignment stuff. I'd say.

 

[Logiko]

Ok this alone is just more proof that you don't understand even the basics. Just increasing minimum wage to $30 an hour wont solve the problem

No. Indeed. Increasing 30€ a wage is not meant to solve the problem, its meant to give more to the WORKERS. To actually solve the problem we need to get rid of meritocracy and capitalism. Then MAYBE we will have a better situation.

There is nothing stopping corporations from simply firing a chunk

Laws and boycott

But for that you actually need to elect the right people and I get it, its hard.

making the worker class suffer even more.

No. You won't make anyone suffer by giving them more money. What you are talking about is the RISK of getting them fired. Its ALWAYS about the risk. I call that emotional blackmail.

"well you can't ask for more because I might just do something bad to you"

That's a society where people don't trust other people. Yes, some people will actually fire others. And some will actually understand why its important. We don't live in a world full of wolves, its just an illusion.

or people who are missing limbs.

And yet, As I said. I would cut my own two legs in a heartbeat just to get out of my situation. Don't compare the struggles of people, no matter the degree of disability, you don't know how much said disability actually affect them in their life.

To give you a comparison, in a paradize, someone that has no limbs would actually be able to walk, at the same time, someone in a liberatarian and dictatorship country with a simple psychosis like me could be put to death for not being productive for society.

We don't have the same life context, we don't have the same capitals, we don't have the same struggles. So comparing our disability only make those who wants us excluded, stronger.

Logiko says that it isn't true and that I'm helping push moral panic.

Because that's what you are doing.

You are literally using the rethoric of the far right to deligitimize fights you should be fighting for. That's confusionnism.

haha Increasing the minimum wage has done horrible damage to our economy. If the idiots can't see that, They are beyond hopeless. Everything will just get an increase in price because of it.

What about stripping away 99% of the wealth of Billionaires ? Would it also increase the prices ?

 

[Roo]

People got their personal own sense of right and wrong, and judge everything from their own moral standpoint. There's rarely practical posts from a general or historical standpoint.

If someone says the minimum wage should increase to $30 and I say that idea is stupid, they will start screaming about how I'm a horrible person, wanted people to be poor and suffer. My personal feelings are irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that corporations would just fire a ton of people and increase prices, making it bad for everyone, as it happened again and again.

It's this post
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-political-discussion.37255/post-5288921

Because a lot of young people get into politics to earn virtue points. They have no moral or philosophical foundation, let alone actual knowledge in the topic they're speaking on. They want to be part of the conversation and show off how much of a "good person" they are.

You know you ran into one of these people when they say cringe shit like " We will be on the right side of history"

 

[Logiko]

You know you ran into one of these people when they say cringe shit like " We will be on the right side of history"

You don't believe that you are on the right side of history for thinking that slavery is a bad thing ?

 

[Toby D. Dog]

haha Increasing the minimum wage has done horrible damage to our economy. If the idiots can't see that, They are beyond hopeless. Everything will just get an increase in price because of it.
.

this guy is a fucking idiot. He claims to be on the side of the working class but thinks that helping them is not good for the economy. Hey dipshit! I know you don’t understand basic economics but if you had at least graduated from middle school you would know that wages haven’t kept up with inflation. The middle class’s purchasing power has been going down since the 80s. Wages haven’t kept up with inflation and therefore we can’t afford the things we used to. Understand bubba? Or do you need it explained with shapes and colors?

 

[Uncle Van]

this guy is a fucking idiot. He claims to be on the side of the working class but thinks that helping them is not good for the economy. Hey dipshit! I know you don’t understand basic economics but if you had at least graduated from middle school you would know that wages haven’t kept up with inflation. The middle class’s purchasing power has been going down since the 80s. Wages haven’t kept up with inflation and therefore we can’t afford the things we used to. Understand bubba? Or do you need it explained with shapes and colors?

??? Was this a misquote?

 

[Roo]

You don't believe that you are on the right side of history for thinking that slavery is a bad thing ?

I have a principled stance against owning people, idc what "side of history" i am on.

If 1000 years later for some reason it is found to be actually good to own people would it change anything? No? Then no, you don't gaf about that shit

 

[Toby D. Dog]

??? Was this a misquote?

Yes, I already fixed it.

 

[Logiko]

If 1000 years later for some reason it is found to be actually good to own people would it change anything?

The good side of history doesn't mean the side that is seen as good by the current society or the future ones, it means the "JUST" side, no matter the time. But if you don't really care to be on the "just" side.. well ..

 

[Roo]

The good side of history doesn't mean the side that is seen as good by the current society or the future ones, it means the "JUST" side, no matter the time.

and who decides whats just or not?

you do realize that is by society right?

 

[Logiko]

and who decides whats just or not?

Empathy

 

[Ravagerblade]

Empathy

Wrong.

 

[Logiko]

Wrong.

Imagine saying its wrong to say that empathy can lead us to understand what is just or not in society.

Non j'rigole !

Mais imagine quand même..

 

[Uncle Van]

A slave owner is empathic to another slave owner who lost his slaves, and it was morally just 200 years ago. It's clearly a societal thing.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Imagine saying its wrong to say that empathy can lead us to understand what is just or not in society.

Non j'rigole !

Mais imagine quand même..

You said Empathy is just. No not all the time. It's good to have Empathy but it can also lead to bad choices. Instead you just say all that garbage. Bro you keep saying one thing then put your foot in your mouth by saying stupid shit.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

A slave owner is empathic to another slave owner who lost his slaves, and it was morally just 200 years ago. It's clearly a societal thing.

Yes, but you know he's going to complain that it's basically not a modern problem.

 

[Logiko]

You said Empathy is just. No not all the time.

Wrong. I said that empathy can LEAD US to UNDERSTAND what is just or not.

But no. Empathy is not "not just". Its a good thing, even when it lead us to do bad things.

Bro you keep saying one thing then put your foot in your mouth by saying stupid shit.

You keep deforming what I say mate. You just took my sentence and make me say something completely different. Can't you read ?

A slave owner is empathic to another slave owner who lost his slaves, and it was morally just 200 years ago. It's clearly a societal thing.

Indeed, and that's a good thing, it means that humanity is still there no matter the context.

The point - that you guys are missing once again - is that no matter the societal structure of society. There will always be empathic toward people who suffer. Someone that can challenge the nature of said society and its injustice. Because that who we are, social animals. That's why empathy IS the tool to make us understand what is just or not to do, no matter the context.

You guys.. are really really REALLY sad.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

You said Empathy is just. No not all the time. It's good to have Empathy but it can also lead to bad choices. Instead you just say all that garbage. Bro you keep saying one thing then put your foot in your mouth by saying stupid shit.

Post automatically merged: May 19, 2024

Yes, but you know he's going to complain that it's basically not a modern problem.

In reality I said empathy, but I forgot one of the most foundamental factor also :

KNOWLEDGE

Empathy is necessary, but there will be a moment where empathy can indeed be used against you. And in that case its time for knowledge to fight. And by knowledge I mean science and scientific research.

Documenting the structural nature of society and its history can help us counter it.

 

[Uncle Van]

Wrong. I said that empathy can LEAD US to UNDERSTAND what is just or not.

But no. Empathy is not "not just". Its a good thing, even when it lead us to do bad things.


You keep deforming what I say mate. You just took my sentence and make me say something completely different. Can't you read ?



Indeed, and that's a good thing, it means that humanity is still there no matter the context.

The point - that you guys are missing once again - is that no matter the societal structure of society. There will always be empathic toward people who suffer. Someone that can challenge the nature of said society and its injustice. Because that who we are, social animals. That's why empathy IS the tool to make us understand what is just or not to do, no matter the context.

You guys.. are really really REALLY sad.

No my dear virtue signaling projector. Empathy has always existed. It has existed even among the scummiest vestiges throughout history. Didn't matter of it was a dictatorship or warmongering. It is society that determines where empathy is mostly aimed towards. Empathy can also cause suffering, and before you deliberately misinterpret again, there are people empathic towards billionaires and think they are hard workers who needs help.

 

[Logiko]

Empathy has always existed

That's literally what I said.