Character Discussion Oda's failure with Kaido
- Thread starter gz89
- Start date
I think he did well from power scaling perspective. Maybe even surpassed my expectations. The two problems I have are Kaido's hybrid form which looks lack luster. It should be much bigger and more powerful.
Second , him not having awakening. Kaen Hakkei is worthy replacement for an awakening but it got defeated too quickly and we barely got any screen time with it.
Also his durability should be shown in better way. Scabbards should not be able to damage Kaido imo.
Kaido's character definitely could have been done far better.
The issue is Kaido was not written as an active villain. He doesn't do anything in wano for most part. It is orochi who is more active than him which takes away from Kaido.
Doffy in contrast was a very active villain. Going to punk hazard. Baiting luffy to come in Dressrossa. He was always on the move.
His backstory is also pretty generic and lack luster. Simply give orochi's motivation and back story to Kaido and it becomes much better.
Onis were prosecuted in wano and were driven into extinction and child Kaido had to run away. Then he comes back stronger for revenge or something.
Same for joyboy plot. Maybe once he thought he was joyboy but then something tragic happened and he failed to protect someone like yamato's mother. Hence he is a drunk and sad and no longer believes in joyboy prophecy. It also gives his " only the strongest survive " ideology more weight.
Also Kaido should be more ruthless and oda should have made Kaido kill the scabbards.
Overall as a villan he was decent but with the above points he could have been doffy tier villain if not higher.
Second , him not having awakening. Kaen Hakkei is worthy replacement for an awakening but it got defeated too quickly and we barely got any screen time with it.
Also his durability should be shown in better way. Scabbards should not be able to damage Kaido imo.
Kaido's character definitely could have been done far better.
The issue is Kaido was not written as an active villain. He doesn't do anything in wano for most part. It is orochi who is more active than him which takes away from Kaido.
Doffy in contrast was a very active villain. Going to punk hazard. Baiting luffy to come in Dressrossa. He was always on the move.
His backstory is also pretty generic and lack luster. Simply give orochi's motivation and back story to Kaido and it becomes much better.
Onis were prosecuted in wano and were driven into extinction and child Kaido had to run away. Then he comes back stronger for revenge or something.
Same for joyboy plot. Maybe once he thought he was joyboy but then something tragic happened and he failed to protect someone like yamato's mother. Hence he is a drunk and sad and no longer believes in joyboy prophecy. It also gives his " only the strongest survive " ideology more weight.
Also Kaido should be more ruthless and oda should have made Kaido kill the scabbards.
Overall as a villan he was decent but with the above points he could have been doffy tier villain if not higher.
Shitty fucking pace. He was literally not worried about losing and then decides to take one giant attack and loses.
That's his character in a nutshell, 16ft of body sitting on 3 ft of legs. Personification of a drawing started too large in the middle of the page with no space left for a proportionate end.
That's his character in a nutshell, 16ft of body sitting on 3 ft of legs. Personification of a drawing started too large in the middle of the page with no space left for a proportionate end.
In my personal opinion, Kaido is just one of the things that was sacrificed in Wano because of decisions of some high ups that started close to the end of WCI and increased a lot in arc 3.
When we first heard about Kaido he was constantly considered and called a thing, someone that would mask as a human but wasn't so. Instead of prejudice against Onis it looked more like fear. The title of king of beasts and his desire to be able to die made me think of someone unnatural or even cursed. Specially after learning that Zunesha was also someone that was unable to die and had to wander. I even remember someone theorizing that Kaido was one of the ancient weapons. Good times.
But when we actually meet Kaido he ended being just a let down. His fighting style is not the best for long fights and was a little boring after a while, his motivations seemed to jump all around the place, we know that he had a huge territory but the story made it seem like he only had wano, the alliance with BM would shock the world but then he made the BMP get stuck on the waterfall for the whole wano and so on. Overall it got to a point that people started to wait for a flashback to make sense of this craziness. And the flashback ended up being also a letdown.
In a way this is similar to Big Mom. Until the wedding cake she was one of the best designed antagonists of One Piece (she actually earned the nickname of kingpin), to a point that if she had died/disabled because of her hunger pains at the end of WCI and never went to wano the story would be better because of it. Kaido is the same, Oda gave hints that there was some depth on his motivations and actions but when it was revealed to be skin deep it made his shortcomings worse. The payoff wasn't worth the buildup.
I still believe that this was done because of some high ups in the editorial staff and his vacation after the raid ended was him trying to savage what he could to finish wano and start again.
When we first heard about Kaido he was constantly considered and called a thing, someone that would mask as a human but wasn't so. Instead of prejudice against Onis it looked more like fear. The title of king of beasts and his desire to be able to die made me think of someone unnatural or even cursed. Specially after learning that Zunesha was also someone that was unable to die and had to wander. I even remember someone theorizing that Kaido was one of the ancient weapons. Good times.
But when we actually meet Kaido he ended being just a let down. His fighting style is not the best for long fights and was a little boring after a while, his motivations seemed to jump all around the place, we know that he had a huge territory but the story made it seem like he only had wano, the alliance with BM would shock the world but then he made the BMP get stuck on the waterfall for the whole wano and so on. Overall it got to a point that people started to wait for a flashback to make sense of this craziness. And the flashback ended up being also a letdown.
In a way this is similar to Big Mom. Until the wedding cake she was one of the best designed antagonists of One Piece (she actually earned the nickname of kingpin), to a point that if she had died/disabled because of her hunger pains at the end of WCI and never went to wano the story would be better because of it. Kaido is the same, Oda gave hints that there was some depth on his motivations and actions but when it was revealed to be skin deep it made his shortcomings worse. The payoff wasn't worth the buildup.
I still believe that this was done because of some high ups in the editorial staff and his vacation after the raid ended was him trying to savage what he could to finish wano and start again.
What do you think went wrong with Kaido's character and he was such a letdown ?
Im not counting pre ts because we barely knew anything about him besides his name & his skirmish with Shanks, but when he was established as the main bad guy of the Yonko saga back in PH (10y ago) i believe most of us had high expectations for him.
Even as the main antagonist in his own arc he couldnt even make it higher than top50 characters.
I would like to hear your opinions about Oda's mistakes regarding his character, just try to not turn this into a powerlevel thread it has nothing to do with how strong he was.
@SakazOuki @Monkey D Theories @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier @milluki @MonsterZoro @MarineHQ @Tejas @L55 @Roronoa-sama @Blazing Lion @BOCCHI
Im not counting pre ts because we barely knew anything about him besides his name & his skirmish with Shanks, but when he was established as the main bad guy of the Yonko saga back in PH (10y ago) i believe most of us had high expectations for him.
Even as the main antagonist in his own arc he couldnt even make it higher than top50 characters.
I would like to hear your opinions about Oda's mistakes regarding his character, just try to not turn this into a powerlevel thread it has nothing to do with how strong he was.
@SakazOuki @Monkey D Theories @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier @milluki @MonsterZoro @MarineHQ @Tejas @L55 @Roronoa-sama @Blazing Lion @BOCCHI
Kaido's backstory wasn't developped and explored enough, with his Oni heritage and past and part as a member of the Rocks Pirates and his relation with his former captain Xebec and crewmates such as Whitebeard or Shiki being largely obscure.
Same as his relations with his crew and especially with his Calamities and Tobbi Roppo, aside from his relation with King and even it could have been explored further, with a lack of numerous and meaningful enough interactions with them.
It's also real BS that he wasn't shown having or using awakening despite how powerful, skilled and experienced he is, but then again Luffy wouldn't have been able of beating him if he did. He also had the doom of being the one to be part of and face that stupid Nika's retcon and awakening.
Same as his relations with his crew and especially with his Calamities and Tobbi Roppo, aside from his relation with King and even it could have been explored further, with a lack of numerous and meaningful enough interactions with them.
It's also real BS that he wasn't shown having or using awakening despite how powerful, skilled and experienced he is, but then again Luffy wouldn't have been able of beating him if he did. He also had the doom of being the one to be part of and face that stupid Nika's retcon and awakening.
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What do you think went wrong with Kaido's character and he was such a letdown ?
Im not counting pre ts because we barely knew anything about him besides his name & his skirmish with Shanks, but when he was established as the main bad guy of the Yonko saga back in PH (10y ago) i believe most of us had high expectations for him.
Even as the main antagonist in his own arc he couldnt even make it higher than top50 characters.
I would like to hear your opinions about Oda's mistakes regarding his character, just try to not turn this into a powerlevel thread it has nothing to do with how strong he was.
@SakazOuki @Monkey D Theories @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier @milluki @MonsterZoro @MarineHQ @Tejas @L55 @Roronoa-sama @Blazing Lion @BOCCHI
Im not counting pre ts because we barely knew anything about him besides his name & his skirmish with Shanks, but when he was established as the main bad guy of the Yonko saga back in PH (10y ago) i believe most of us had high expectations for him.
Even as the main antagonist in his own arc he couldnt even make it higher than top50 characters.
I would like to hear your opinions about Oda's mistakes regarding his character, just try to not turn this into a powerlevel thread it has nothing to do with how strong he was.
@SakazOuki @Monkey D Theories @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier @milluki @MonsterZoro @MarineHQ @Tejas @L55 @Roronoa-sama @Blazing Lion @BOCCHI
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more named characters died in wano than in any other arc
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he never gloated about being awakened. he just explained what it was. there are really no indications that kaido was awakened, and in fact i think his character is set up to very systematically deny all the symbolism of the azure dragon that would allow him to be awakened. if he ruled like momo he would be much more in line with the devil fruit's "mind"
When I see the Gorosei and Kizaru fighting, I really miss Kaido. Oda's mistake was focusing on Orochi who was a useless character overall.
Too much contradiction with the character but most of these contradictions were related to what Oda wanted to make with Luffy and his awakening.
So basically Nika not only ruined Luffy's character during Wano, it also ruined Kaido's character. Just like it will ruin the next antagonists.
Too much contradiction with the character but most of these contradictions were related to what Oda wanted to make with Luffy and his awakening.
So basically Nika not only ruined Luffy's character during Wano, it also ruined Kaido's character. Just like it will ruin the next antagonists.
Kaido should've been the final villain of One Piece, competing with Luffy on who will be PK, after Luffy have beaten the Gorosei, Akainu, Blackbeard and Imu-Sama, Kaido should've been Luffy's final villain, the plot destroyed Kaido and made him bad tbh, he's also called the world strongest creature, but yet Oda made him lose to 7 enemies before Luffy, if Kaido is the world's strongest creature then it should be that no one has beaten him ever except maybe just 1 guy and it'd be Joyboy but Joyboy didn't live in Kaido's era so we'll say maybe Roger was the only to beat him, then they make the second guy to have finally beaten him is Luffy and Luffy be PK.
Edit: and to make Kaido look more of a threat, Kaido kills one of Luffy's friends or some of them, like in this fake movie trailer:
Edit: and to make Kaido look more of a threat, Kaido kills one of Luffy's friends or some of them, like in this fake movie trailer:
Lmao the Calamities. Jack was a sign of things to come, watching him go from "right hand" to 28 year old (!) errand boy. I mean if you're going to throw him down the stairs, at least have him be the one who jobs to Green Bull, too. No need to have done that to the others.
With Kaido's awakening I think Oda could have given a better rationale as to why the scabbards hurt him and shown that constantly battling throughout the night had a big enough toll that his awakened form was beatable for Luffy. And not like "oh, I'm just gonna take this attack that I can dodge" beatable.
With Kaido's awakening I think Oda could have given a better rationale as to why the scabbards hurt him and shown that constantly battling throughout the night had a big enough toll that his awakened form was beatable for Luffy. And not like "oh, I'm just gonna take this attack that I can dodge" beatable.
I still don't think that the Scabbards, at least most of them, should have been able of cutting or piercing Kaido's skin in the first place. Really felt like a devaluation of Kaido's durability with him having been presented as nearly-indestructible before that.
As for Jack, it's another one of the big failures and disappointments of Wano arc to have him fail to have a big role and with his powers and skills being so underdevelopped.
As for Jack, it's another one of the big failures and disappointments of Wano arc to have him fail to have a big role and with his powers and skills being so underdevelopped.
Even Kaido's VA was disappointed and felt betrayed:
Kaido should have had more than 1 arc like big mom. There's far too much left unresolved and unknown about him.
Such underwhelming "deaths" for 2 of the most important, iconic and strongest characters in the series who ruled half the strongest ocean between them.
Kaido should have had more than 1 arc like big mom. There's far too much left unresolved and unknown about him.
Such underwhelming "deaths" for 2 of the most important, iconic and strongest characters in the series who ruled half the strongest ocean between them.
Even Kaido's VA was disappointed and felt betrayed:
Kaido should have had more than 1 arc like big mom. There's far too much left unresolved and unknown about him.
Such underwhelming "deaths" for 2 of the most important, iconic and strongest characters in the series who ruled half the strongest ocean between them.
Kaido should have had more than 1 arc like big mom. There's far too much left unresolved and unknown about him.
Such underwhelming "deaths" for 2 of the most important, iconic and strongest characters in the series who ruled half the strongest ocean between them.
Even Kaido's VA was disappointed and felt betrayed:
Kaido should have had more than 1 arc like big mom. There's far too much left unresolved and unknown about him.
Such underwhelming "deaths" for 2 of the most important, iconic and strongest characters in the series who ruled half the strongest ocean between them.
Kaido should have had more than 1 arc like big mom. There's far too much left unresolved and unknown about him.
Such underwhelming "deaths" for 2 of the most important, iconic and strongest characters in the series who ruled half the strongest ocean between them.
