Powers & Abilities It is over for the Devil Fruit users.

[comrade]

??????????

That's literally how haki works for everything

You cancel the ability if your haki is superior than the opponent's

If the opponent does not use haki, you cancel the sword attack or devil fruit ability by default

Swords are not "special"

? Blocking a slash/punch with superior Haki defense =/= shutting down a DF or nullifying its effect. It's not like a Haki blast will somehow shut off the opponents Haki or make their sword crumble (unless it's a fodder sword).

 

[nik87]

Never happened. We don't even know if he fought an admiral

There is a reason why the Fleet Admiral is scared of samurai... It is not because Ryuma fought fodder.

In the end they compared him to Luffy.

Yes and then you realize why they are compared - saved a country from a dragon.
You legit through Rupee was as strong as Ryuma due to that comparison?

Of course that a sword can be cancelled through haki, do you even read?

Nope, the sword is still there.
DFs, on the other hand, are completely gone.
Accept the inevitable, hakimen rule supreme.

 

[Malio]

If you ain't got advanced Conquerors Haki, you are NOT a top tier , argue with Oda

 

[Mr.Baj1o]

PREACH!!!

 

[Blazing Lion]

True, been saying that since forever, at the very top the only thing that really matters is haki. People have been using simple additions to try to pop up their faves but in the end it doesnt matter. Roger was at the top and WB was his equal and Garp was Rogers equal etc. WB had OP DF + SG Blade + ACoC, Roger had SG Blade + ACoC and Garp only had ACoC, yet they all could go toe to toe against each other.

What people confuse this with is that these things should not be compared in different contexts. In 1v1 fights the haki is the defining factor, however, neither Roger nor Garp has the power to destroy the world like WB due to his DF. Same punches that caused eathquakes and tsunamis could not finish a human (Akainu).

DF just add more versatility to top tiers and differntiates the fighters, otherwise everybody would be same type of fighters and OP is not like fighting focused manga like Kengan ASura etc. to differentiate fighters like that.

Haki nullifying DFs has been a thing all since post TS, pre TS the DFs were ruling and now haki.

But top tiers are top tiers because of haki and some DFs.
PK - no DF
Marine Hero - no DF
WSS - no DF
Kaidos top 5 - 3 confirmed no DF, 1 DF has haki equal to PK, 1 unknown but probably has haki equal to Roger (Kuma FB)
WSC - Says haki transcends all

Its just fans of DF merchants (Admirals/Sanji/Law/Kid etc.) who want to downplay haki because these guys have not shown ACoC.

Luffy will have the strongest DF and strongest haki
Zoro will have strongest sword and strongest haki

 

[Djordje]

No pinnacle of power is Haki + Devil fruit power.

Haki can negate Devil fruit power its true , but if your Devil fruit user opponent has same level of Haki you wont be negating shit.

We know how haki works and how Armament and Advanced Coc increase your offensive capabilities . With all this known users can still use benefits of their devil fruits to further increase his offensive capabilities.

Pinnacle of Luffy attack power is using his top haki together with tensile force granted to him by his devil fruit, Luffy with Haki alone could never match that attack power.

Tensile force alone increased Luffy power several times its just common sense at this point .

 

[Franosuke]

The cherry on top is that the strongest haki users can even manifest their own DF-like abilities through sheer willpower. I think you know who I'm talking about

 

[AkainuTheGrimReaper]

Guess it mean random turtle zoan one shot enel with haki.

 

[Peroroncino]

??????????

That's literally how haki works for everything

You cancel the ability if your haki is superior than the opponent's

If the opponent does not use haki, you cancel the sword attack or devil fruit ability by default

Swords are not "special"

if you block a punch when boxing does that mean you cancelled punches altogether?
Obviously not the opponent will just keep punching and punching,come on man

 

[Nadel]

Shanks is a swordsman, whoever calls him a "hakiman" is in denial like I was 2 years ago

 

[Garps tekkai]

A lot was already said, but who's to say that a DF neutralizing ability won't be a "main character of each gen"- exclusive, who likely all have/had a CoC specialization?
Very convenient to neglect even the possibility of a hakiman-concept being a thing for years, cause of agenda, and now trying to extend those hakiman feats onto others for that same agenda.

Luffy and Kaido already had a world class battle and BM, as a fellow yonk, went already at it aswell. Not once was any DF ability deactivated tho.
I doubt it's a) going to be an be all-end all kinda ability, even though I've been saying for years we need a counter for environmental manipulation techs, and b) that everyone is just going to be able to use it.
For now I'd only give Shanks and Roger the benefit of the doubt, thanks to obvious reasons.

 

[The DevilMaster]

Kaido's statement kind of seals it; the guy's epithet was the king of wisdom, the best 1v1 fighter. He sailed and fought, and sometimes witnessed the strongest individuals in this manga: Kaido sailed with: Big Mom, Shiki, Whitebeard, and Xebec. He had a certain rivalry with Roger and apparently saw him fight in God Valley. He fought against Oden, fought against Shanks on the way to Marineford, and finally may have even witnessed the powers of the Gorosei, specifically Saturn, who was in God Valley the day Kaido obtained his Devil Fruit. The same goes for Garling, and this man described Luffy's Devil Fruit power in the same way the Gorosei did, just by momentarily witnessing Luffy's power (The Awakening). The Gorosei already knew about the existence of such power, but Kaido did not. The man considered the World's Strongest Creature, the 1v1 king, shouted that Haki transcends EVERYTHING.


I forgot to mention he also witnessed Garp fight.

 

[SkySanji]

A lot was already said, but who's to say that a DF neutralizing ability won't be a "main character of each gen"- exclusive, who likely all have/had a CoC specialization?
Very convenient to neglect even the possibility of a hakiman-concept being a thing for years, cause of agenda, and now trying to extend those hakiman feats onto others for that same agenda.

Luffy and Kaido already had a world class battle and BM, as a fellow yonk, went already at it aswell. Not once was any DF ability deactivated tho.
I doubt it's a) going to be an be all-end all kinda ability, even though I've been saying for years we need a counter for environmental manipulation techs, and b) that everyone is just going to be able to use it.
For now I'd only give Shanks and Roger the benefit of the doubt, thanks to obvious reasons.

We've literally already seen Law do it, and Kaido/Big Mom passively did it when they prevented Law from Shambling them.

 

[The DevilMaster]

A lot was already said, but who's to say that a DF neutralizing ability won't be a "main character of each gen"- exclusive, who likely all have/had a CoC specialization?
Very convenient to neglect even the possibility of a hakiman-concept being a thing for years, cause of agenda, and now trying to extend those hakiman feats onto others for that same agenda.

Luffy and Kaido already had a world class battle and BM, as a fellow yonk, went already at it aswell. Not once was any DF ability deactivated tho.
I doubt it's a) going to be an be all-end all kinda ability, even though I've been saying for years we need a counter for environmental manipulation techs, and b) that everyone is just going to be able to use it.
For now I'd only give Shanks and Roger the benefit of the doubt, thanks to obvious reasons.

Doesn't the fact that Law can't move Kaidou, who according to Law has monstrous Haki, make some of his DF skills useless?

 

[Garps tekkai]

We've literally already seen Law do it, and Kaido/Big Mom passively did it when they prevented Law from Shambling them.

That's withstanding an ability effect. That's not the same as deactivating a Zoan or Logia form of another person and/or completely neutralizing DF abilties as they are.
Two pairs of shoes.
Edit: Cannot even logically be the same, when Law does not even have CoC, when Shanks and Joyboy did their stunts thanks to CoC.

 

[SkySanji]

That's withstanding an ability effect. That's not the same as deactivating a Zoan or Logia form of another person and/or completely neutralizing DF abilties as they are.
Two pairs of shoes

I mean it's the same thing just on a higher level, as expected since Joyboy is a god tier, probably the peak in history until Luffy and Shanks is the modern day hakiman.

 

[The DevilMaster]

That's withstanding an ability effect. That's not the same as deactivating a Zoan or Logia form of another person and/or completely neutralizing DF abilties as they are.
Two pairs of shoes

But Haki makes that skill or better technique completely useless against that specific opponent and not because he is resisting, but because his Haki totally neutralizes my technique from being used against that specific opponent.

The technique literally loses its purpose because the guy is using Haki and blocking it from performing its function. LOL

 

[Garps tekkai]

I mean it's the same thing just on a higher level, as expected since Joyboy is a god tier, probably the peak in history until Luffy and Shanks is the modern day hakiman.

But Haki makes that skill or better technique completely useless against that specific opponent and not because he is resisting, but because his Haki totally neutralizes my technique from being used against that specific opponent.

You can spin it however you want, it's not the same. Law and BM and Kaido were defending against another man's ability.
Joyboy and Shanks, via CoC, deactivate a DF ability entirely.

 

[The DevilMaster]

You can spin it however you want, it's not the same. Law and BM and Kaido were defending against another man's ability.
Joyboy and Shanks, via CoC, deactivate a DF ability entirely.

Defending yourself?
Is causing a Df technique to completely lose its ability to perform its function to protect itself?

Because that's what Kaidou did, stood still while DF techniques couldn't perform their function due to the monstrous Haki being too much.
Because what does Law's technique do? It moves people, when he is not able to perform this simple act due to the fact that his opponent has monstrous Haki, it was literally blocked by Haki or rather nullified.

 

[Nadel]

The Winner

The looser

exactly