Speculations Handful of the strongest
- Thread starter nik87
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Impressive but you didn't answer my question - has Oda called even one of them Power? 
Invent new mental gymnastics when the strongest doesn't even consider posthawk?
Then if we are doing menthal gymnastic, show me when you ever had WB sweating in fear at the thought of fighting emperors.
Big Mom went to Wano with a small number subordinates to go after Luffy, not Kaido. We leaned they haven't seen each other since the Rock pirate days.
Kaido brought King to try to stop WB from reaching Marineford in time to save Ace.
Shanks and his crew clashed with Kaido and King to stop them from interfering with the WB pirates rescue mission.
None of the Yonko brought their entire army to fight another each other for territory, power, or One Piece.
WB refused to go to Wano to get revenge on Kaido for killing Oden because he knew there would be casualties and it wasn't worth the risk.
Kaido brought King to try to stop WB from reaching Marineford in time to save Ace.
Shanks and his crew clashed with Kaido and King to stop them from interfering with the WB pirates rescue mission.
None of the Yonko brought their entire army to fight another each other for territory, power, or One Piece.
WB refused to go to Wano to get revenge on Kaido for killing Oden because he knew there would be casualties and it wasn't worth the risk.
You never spoke about army, why moving goalposts?
Again, your mental gymnastic make you look like a copeer, Nik.
Why not address the sweat of fear of Mihawk at the thought of fighting real top tiers?
Not a cope but a fact.
Only 3 have been called Power - Zoro, Mihawk and Kaido.
It happens that two out of those 3 are World's Strongest.
It also happens that the last one who isn't WS, will be WS.
As you can see, there are layers to true Power representatives.
Only 3 have been called Power - Zoro, Mihawk and Kaido.
It happens that two out of those 3 are World's Strongest.
It also happens that the last one who isn't WS, will be WS.
As you can see, there are layers to true Power representatives.
Why not address the sweat of fear of Mihawk at the thought of fighting real top tiers?
You're smarter than that so don't try to play dumb.
You know I was not talking about a Yonko facing another Yonko in a 1v1. In the examples I brought you not a single Yonko went off alone. They all had help.
Big Mom and Kaido's, before they decided to join forces to create the largest and strongest army ever, were trying to create the largest and strongest armies individually. Kaido used Orochi to trick Oden into not fighting him for years to give him time to rebuilt his army.
No, I'm not the one moving the goal post it's you by trying to make this post out to be a Yonko facing Yonko in a 1v1.
Mihawk wasn't scared of facing a top tier. That your headcannon. He was frustrated with Buggy who was letting his position go to his head to think he and Crocodile are going to do everything he wants them to do.
They did not create Cross Guild to go after One Piece. Mihawk knows if they go after One Piece they will face a Yonko and their forces because nobody's goes after One Piece alone. Currently, Cross Guild has the weakest crew excluding Yonkos and Mihawk. Mihawk winning but losing most of the crew would a major setback. If you read and comprehended the manga you would know the very first thing Mihawk and Crocodile talked about was building their wealth and power. The same thing Kaido and Big Mom has done for years and were still doing. The same thing BB was doing over the time skip.
You know I was not talking about a Yonko facing another Yonko in a 1v1. In the examples I brought you not a single Yonko went off alone. They all had help.
Big Mom and Kaido's, before they decided to join forces to create the largest and strongest army ever, were trying to create the largest and strongest armies individually. Kaido used Orochi to trick Oden into not fighting him for years to give him time to rebuilt his army.
No, I'm not the one moving the goal post it's you by trying to make this post out to be a Yonko facing Yonko in a 1v1.
Mihawk wasn't scared of facing a top tier. That your headcannon. He was frustrated with Buggy who was letting his position go to his head to think he and Crocodile are going to do everything he wants them to do.
They did not create Cross Guild to go after One Piece. Mihawk knows if they go after One Piece they will face a Yonko and their forces because nobody's goes after One Piece alone. Currently, Cross Guild has the weakest crew excluding Yonkos and Mihawk. Mihawk winning but losing most of the crew would a major setback. If you read and comprehended the manga you would know the very first thing Mihawk and Crocodile talked about was building their wealth and power. The same thing Kaido and Big Mom has done for years and were still doing. The same thing BB was doing over the time skip.
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Straight up I agree with most of your post nik but by the same token you could easily call Kaido a devil fruit merchant too since he still has not gotten over Oden. Having powers besides Haki is not an automatic L for a character. I think downplaying Imus role is a mistake either way.
Imu being shocked (and that is ALL they are shown to be thus far) over feeling Joyboys haki, whom as far as we can tell Imu might have literally put in the ground themselves, is not an Anti-feat. It is just not.
If Zoro killed somebody, got the immorality surgery and lives 800 years only to all of a suddenly feel that persons Haki again I would claim he would react not much differently from Imu either.
Oda might very well make Imu a "devil fruit merchant" but at the end of the day Imu SOMEHOW no diffed Sabo. Lets not act like Imu not having Haki or being all that weak/a fraud is even on the table anymore. At WORST they will probably be the strongest devil fruit user of all time given their 800 years plus experience with their fruit. If they are not a literal devil/god of some sort.
Mihawk has the title that Zoros strives for and which grants him conquerors. Arguing that Mihawk does not posses conquerors is quite literally just as stupid as people back in the day speculating whether or not Roger would have it despite Luffy having it.
Hell, arguably it is worse since at least Luffy has SOME other dream that if Oda so chooses could be more worthy. Meanwhile Zoros goal is literally becoming who Mihawk currently is.
The ONLY chance any of you Mihawk down players have of him not having Coc is if the way by which you get a black blade is to literally infuse all of your conquerors into your blade and thus losing it. Though, given that Zoro will probably not make all three of his blades black at the same time even that cope theory seems rather outlandish.
Imu being shocked (and that is ALL they are shown to be thus far) over feeling Joyboys haki, whom as far as we can tell Imu might have literally put in the ground themselves, is not an Anti-feat. It is just not.
If Zoro killed somebody, got the immorality surgery and lives 800 years only to all of a suddenly feel that persons Haki again I would claim he would react not much differently from Imu either.
Oda might very well make Imu a "devil fruit merchant" but at the end of the day Imu SOMEHOW no diffed Sabo. Lets not act like Imu not having Haki or being all that weak/a fraud is even on the table anymore. At WORST they will probably be the strongest devil fruit user of all time given their 800 years plus experience with their fruit. If they are not a literal devil/god of some sort.
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Mihawk has the title that Zoros strives for and which grants him conquerors. Arguing that Mihawk does not posses conquerors is quite literally just as stupid as people back in the day speculating whether or not Roger would have it despite Luffy having it.
Hell, arguably it is worse since at least Luffy has SOME other dream that if Oda so chooses could be more worthy. Meanwhile Zoros goal is literally becoming who Mihawk currently is.
The ONLY chance any of you Mihawk down players have of him not having Coc is if the way by which you get a black blade is to literally infuse all of your conquerors into your blade and thus losing it. Though, given that Zoro will probably not make all three of his blades black at the same time even that cope theory seems rather outlandish.
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I dont doubt that Imu is strong, one of the strongest people in the world but he is not the very peak.
Imu trembles at Emeth's feat which means this is a PTSD from Joyboy doing the same to Imu.
Sabo was running away carrying Cobra, we cant praise Imu for cheap shotting him there...
I am certain Imu will not end up above those who have multiple Devil Fruits, Blackbeard and Shiryu.
He may remain above Luffy but that is thanks to Luffy being Luffy, not much of a effective fighter who relies too much on plot armor...
And I am certain the hakimen will tower above Imu too. Imu's best chances are around top5 but even that is thanks to some people being dead...
Imu trembles at Emeth's feat which means this is a PTSD from Joyboy doing the same to Imu.
Sabo was running away carrying Cobra, we cant praise Imu for cheap shotting him there...
I am certain Imu will not end up above those who have multiple Devil Fruits, Blackbeard and Shiryu.
He may remain above Luffy but that is thanks to Luffy being Luffy, not much of a effective fighter who relies too much on plot armor...
And I am certain the hakimen will tower above Imu too. Imu's best chances are around top5 but even that is thanks to some people being dead...
I was not so much praising Imu for cheap shoting him as much as saying Imu must have Haki (or at least some very convenient Hak equivalent hax) to harm the Logia user that is Sabo.
And though I generally agree with most of your takes I do not understand how you can be as “harsh” as you are with Imu for his reaction to Joyboy and how this “hard caps” his chances so to speak but praise Blackbeard in the same breath.
Blackbeard, the same man who runs from Old Rayleigh and Akainu. Hell, even if Imu is a devil fruit user and not just a straight up Devil themselves as I suspect? Blackbeards end goal in the setting is becoming whom Imu is. King/Ruler of the World.
And he will then do that with three fruits while Imu managed to pull it off via just one, while also ruling for WAY longer than Teach will ever be able to since he sure as hell ain't winning the Manga.
Like I don’t even get this idea some people have of Blackbeard stealing Imus fruit (which due to their transformation in the throne room would likely be a zoan/mythical zoan to give Teach the “best” of all three fruit categories.
He would never be able to master the fruit in whatever short amount of time post an Imu fight before facing Luffy. Nor would it feel thematically appropriate if Luffy dismantle the WG (now under Blackbeard control somehow?) if Imu, the person in charge of the whole thing, has been supplanted by Blackbeard.
Blackbeard might very well be the strongest Pirate that Luffy faces EOS if he blooms his Haki (especially since we have seen in Egghead how devil fruit reliant Luffy is despite his fans claims to the contrary) but Imu?
Until proven otherwise I still think Imu is gonna end up being the greater scope villain.
Though either way, if you acknowledge Imu is Top 5 material (even if only current and not of all time) I can agree to disagree and respect your opinion since you clearly at least acknowledge Imus prowess to a level far to many are still denying to this day so props on that front.
And though I generally agree with most of your takes I do not understand how you can be as “harsh” as you are with Imu for his reaction to Joyboy and how this “hard caps” his chances so to speak but praise Blackbeard in the same breath.
Blackbeard, the same man who runs from Old Rayleigh and Akainu. Hell, even if Imu is a devil fruit user and not just a straight up Devil themselves as I suspect? Blackbeards end goal in the setting is becoming whom Imu is. King/Ruler of the World.
And he will then do that with three fruits while Imu managed to pull it off via just one, while also ruling for WAY longer than Teach will ever be able to since he sure as hell ain't winning the Manga.
Like I don’t even get this idea some people have of Blackbeard stealing Imus fruit (which due to their transformation in the throne room would likely be a zoan/mythical zoan to give Teach the “best” of all three fruit categories.
He would never be able to master the fruit in whatever short amount of time post an Imu fight before facing Luffy. Nor would it feel thematically appropriate if Luffy dismantle the WG (now under Blackbeard control somehow?) if Imu, the person in charge of the whole thing, has been supplanted by Blackbeard.
Blackbeard might very well be the strongest Pirate that Luffy faces EOS if he blooms his Haki (especially since we have seen in Egghead how devil fruit reliant Luffy is despite his fans claims to the contrary) but Imu?
Until proven otherwise I still think Imu is gonna end up being the greater scope villain.
Though either way, if you acknowledge Imu is Top 5 material (even if only current and not of all time) I can agree to disagree and respect your opinion since you clearly at least acknowledge Imus prowess to a level far to many are still denying to this day so props on that front.
I don't think such things as Devil exist as in this story all things are manifestations of desire, the evolution of humanity.
Imu can either be a special race, like King or have the ability that is a result of desire, either first timer or manifested in a DF already.
Due to his ability being Zoan-like in Silhouette, it means his source of power is mainly a Devil Fruit. Certainly his haki will also be impressive as Elders have impressive haki as well but there are levels above those hakis and as we know, haki rules supreme.
That has been repeatedly reinforced since the beginning of the story and that is why I don't rank Imu as high as some people do.
Haki aka willpower is the power that conquers/transcends everything and there are 3 confirmed hakimen - Zoro, Mihawk and Shanks.
Zoro and Mihawk are a story for themselves, the very peak that nobody else can approach due to being ultimate representatives of Power.
While Shanks isn't on that level, he has nothing else to show off but his haki which has been displayed as impressive throughout the whole story. For him to stand below Imu who relies mainly on DF ability would be odd to say the least, for Oda's self insert.
And you know that I think that 4 Emperors come after Imu as I don't support the idea that WG war is final.
If you think it is, I understand why you would rank Imu above Emperors. That's probably why we have different opinions on this.
Blackbeard is treated differently than Imu, that's why it is not so weird to forgive him being a hypetool and what not...
However, once his time comes, he will have to prove himself and I don't think he will be inferior to any DF user left in the show at that point especially because one of his characteristics is the DF canceling effect that is a big trouble for those who rely heavily on DFs...
Imu can either be a special race, like King or have the ability that is a result of desire, either first timer or manifested in a DF already.
Due to his ability being Zoan-like in Silhouette, it means his source of power is mainly a Devil Fruit. Certainly his haki will also be impressive as Elders have impressive haki as well but there are levels above those hakis and as we know, haki rules supreme.
That has been repeatedly reinforced since the beginning of the story and that is why I don't rank Imu as high as some people do.
Haki aka willpower is the power that conquers/transcends everything and there are 3 confirmed hakimen - Zoro, Mihawk and Shanks.
Zoro and Mihawk are a story for themselves, the very peak that nobody else can approach due to being ultimate representatives of Power.
While Shanks isn't on that level, he has nothing else to show off but his haki which has been displayed as impressive throughout the whole story. For him to stand below Imu who relies mainly on DF ability would be odd to say the least, for Oda's self insert.
And you know that I think that 4 Emperors come after Imu as I don't support the idea that WG war is final.
If you think it is, I understand why you would rank Imu above Emperors. That's probably why we have different opinions on this.
Blackbeard is treated differently than Imu, that's why it is not so weird to forgive him being a hypetool and what not...
However, once his time comes, he will have to prove himself and I don't think he will be inferior to any DF user left in the show at that point especially because one of his characteristics is the DF canceling effect that is a big trouble for those who rely heavily on DFs...