Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Apart of some very limited episodes during war, there wasn't even that much knowledge about these illnesses or antibodies. The extremely vast majority of the contagion didn't really happen on purpose, anyone who says otherwise is an obnoxious liar. Most of the time these people didn't even know what was happening.

Wrong. Smallpox and Measles (the two illness that created the most death) were well known, just badly treated. But their contagious nature were known.

We know that Smallpox was used as biological warfare so it's really NOT a stretch to say that it was done the same way to submit native population during the early stage of the colonization when we know what was done at the time. And anyway. And it's still part of the genocide.

So yes, Europeean did the world very dirty on the four sides of the globe.

The Europeans weren't really that different from other populations

Their imperialist system was. That's what we are telling you here. And it still is today.
You are focusing on people, we are telling you taht the system was the problem.

But you have to push your agenda that war and oppression were invented by white people while the rest of the world is made of hippies who cry when you throw an empty soda can to the ground.

Only you is inventing that BS.

1.7 millions in 200 years, most of it likely being military personnel.

That was the very low estimate. The high estimation is around 6 MILLIONS. So you can expect to say that a LOT of civilians died. I'm really not understand what you are F. trying to do by relativising those crime against humanity. Weither it civilians or military, it doesn't change the fact that it was a massacre because of Europeeans.

Your nonsensical cries

You are the one having a nonsensical cry right now. Everyone but you understand the imperialist impact of europeean politics over the world across history.

You are trying to negate it just for the sake of relativism by comparing a world colonization with random actions of conquests and inhumanity of other civilizations.. That's nonsense !

are also based in the fact that in your mind the Middle East is Islamic so the Christians were expanding and stealing Muslim land but it was quite the contrary.

No it was not "quite the contrary". it was the purpose of those crusades.

Massive Wakanda cope.

Keep denying history and sociology mate.

Everything is far-right according to you liberals, even parties on your left.

I'm not a liberal. I'm at the radical left of liberals you [Search your label HERE]

 

[Owl Ki]

Do you think it was right for the world to deny Jewish refugees during the Holocaust?

Should the rest of the world have actively assisted in ethnically cleansing all the groups the Nazis didn't want in the lands they controlled?

No.

Yes, they are bad for using the Palestinians as political pawns and prolonging their suffering.

It’s not about “letting Israel win”. Israel is already doing whatever it wants. They’re already doing genocide in Gaza. They’re already doing apartheid in the West Bank.

by keeping the doors shut to refugees, the Arab states are just screwing the Palestinians

Mate, no nation can accept infinity refugees. Who is supposed to take another 2 million refugees from Gaza alone?

Egypt is the only Arab nation that actually borders Gaza. It is currently economically and societally fragile with around 1/3 its population being in poverty nationally and nearly 1/2 in poverty in the rural areas. Egypt couldn't cope, not in the middle of an economic crises and a poverty stricken society.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1237041/poverty-headcount-ratio-in-egypt/#:~:text=As of 2022, the poverty,about 32 percent in 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1237070/poverty-rate-national-line-in-egypt-regions/

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/egypts-foreign-debt-rises-35-billion-last-quarter-2023-2024-05-09/#:~:text=Total foreign debt rose to,and support an overvalued currency.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/how-big-are-egypts-economic-challenges-2024-03-06/#:~:text=Some causes date back decades,have deterred investment and competition.

Jordan meanwhile has taken in so many Palestinians that about 20% of its population is Palestinian. Jordan also has over 1 million other refugees to deal with. This is a nation of only 11 million people by the way.

Spoiler

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2024-01-05/explainer-the-complicated-plight-of-palestinian-refugees#:~:text=With nearly 2.4 million registered,to the agency's 2023 estimates.

How about Syria then? They already have a 1/2 million Palestinian refugees despite a raging civil war that has internally displaced roughly 1/3 of its pre-war population.

https://www.unrefugees.org/news/syria-refugee-crisis-explained/

Between war and sanctions, over 90% of Syria's population is in poverty.

https://apnews.com/article/syria-humanitarian-aid-funding-crossborder-russia-

5d28da9aa4d55b8c0f24563f69d8b5a0
https://www.unicef.org/syria/every-day-counts

How about Lebanon? Again, economic crisis and the nation already has 1.5 million Syrian refugees and a near 1/2 million Palestinian refugees. This is a nation of only 5+ million people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_liquidity_crisis

https://reporting.unhcr.org/operational/operations/lebanon#:~:text=The Government of Lebanon estimates,by the end of 2022.

So all of the nearby Arab nations either have millions of refugees already, a raging economic crisis or both.

Yet your big brain idea, for all these nations which are all already under significant internal political pressure as is, is for them to directly assist Israel in pursuing its Lebensraum goals and making Palestine free of Palestinians?

Any other bright ideas? I suppose the Xhosa, Zulu, Basotho and Tswana should have just been removed so the Boers could have all of South Africa peacefully? I suppose the Shona should have just been booted out of Rhodesia to Ian Smith's delight, right?

If the Israelis want to taint their nation's soul with the stain of genocide then that is on them, no Arab nations are obliged to collapse their societies to Israel's benefit.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Wrong. Smallpox and Measles (the two illness that created the most death) were well known, just badly treated. But their contagious nature were known.

We know that Smallpox was used as biological warfare so it's really NOT a stretch to say that it was done the same way to submit native population during the early stage of the colonization when we know what was done at the time. And anyway. And it's still part of the genocide.

So yes, Europeean did the world very dirty on the four sides of the globe.

People had no knowledge of germs, antibodies and stuff, so they didn't even understand the difference between themselves and the natives or why they'd die in greater numbers. We only have extremely small evidence of situations where it was used as biological warfare in war and besides, contagions would happen even when there was no war going on and the natives would still die. You have absolutely 0 evidence for your points concerning biological warfare on a massive scale and no-one supports your point of view. You are just plainly lying to shit on Europeans.

Their imperialist system was. That's what we are telling you here. And it still is today.
You are focusing on people, we are telling you taht the system was the problem.

Where there's people, there's systems. Most civilizations in the world were doing war and establishing their own systems. The gentle savage trope is a lie.

That was the very low estimate. The high estimation is around 6 MILLIONS. So you can expect to say that a LOT of civilians died. I'm really not understand what you are F. trying to do by relativising those crime against humanity. Weither it civilians or military, it doesn't change the fact that it was a massacre because of Europeeans.

6 millions again huh? You can't even use Google because the maximum estimation is around 9 millions, but in ancient timesnitnwas normal chronists to inflate the numbers. Modern estimates say 1.7 in 200 years. You also completely ignored my arguments about Muslims waging wars and taking over these lands because your woke brain legit can't picture a situation where oppression and imperialism aren't done by whites.

You are the one having a nonsensical cry right now. Everyone but you understand the imperialist impact of europeean politics over the world across history.

You are trying to negate it just for the sake of relativism by comparing a world colonization with random actions of conquests and inhumanity of other civilizations.. That's nonsense

I do understand the impact and I am being realistic about it. I am also pointing out that other populations not doing that on a planetary scale doesn't mean that they didn't because they were good people and Euros were evil, they just didn't because they didn't have the technology. There's also various examples of similar behaviour outside of Europe when one side was much stronger than the surrounding neighbours.

No it was not "quite the contrary". it was the purpose of those crusades.



Keep denying history and sociology mate.

0 arguments from your side, while I reported the historical truths. You just hate white people so you don't want to admit that they aren't more evil than other populations. For example 0 comments on your side about the expansion of Islam and you refused to address the topic.

I'm not a liberal. I'm at the radical left of liberals you [Search your label HERE]

People like you are basically liberals, most of the political themes you care about are the same things liberals obsess over and apart from passing comments your interest in true left-wing politics is very superficial.

By the way I have an exam soon and I can't waste too much time on writing long replies about this nonsense, so I will have to stop responding here for now.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Should the rest of the world have actively assisted in ethnically cleansing all the groups the Nazis didn't want in the lands they controlled?

No.
.

The refusal to accept refugees led to those people being murdered by the nazis

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

Mate, no nation can accept infinity refugees. Who is supposed to take another 2 million refugees from Gaza alone?

Egypt is the only Arab nation that actually borders Gaza. It is currently economically and societally fragile with around 1/3 its population being in poverty nationally and nearly 1/2 in poverty in the rural areas. Egypt couldn't cope, not in the middle of an economic crises and a poverty stricken society.

Immigration is a net benefit to the economy

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

Yet your big brain idea, for all these nations which are all already under significant internal political pressure as is, is for them to directly assist Israel in pursuing its Lebensraum goals and making Palestine free of Palestinians?

if they actually cared about the people in Gaza, they’d save them.

These people are trapped in a war zone with no way out

 

[Mathias]

Expansion of Islam ? Yeah the arap did it, I swear it wasn't us

Spoiler

did we really though ?

 

[Logiko]

People had no knowledge of germs, antibodies and stuff, so they didn't even understand the difference between themselves and the natives or why they'd die in greater numbers.

They were not aware of the reasons, but they knew the existence of the phenomenon of contagion, and why you should prevent people from getting unwell.

So they used that in warfare.

We only have extremely small evidence of situations where it was used as biological warfare in war and besides, contagions would happen even when there was no war going on and the natives would still die.

When you let epidemic rage without doing anything, THIS is an intentional biological warfare. There was ways to prevent people from getting infected by then, but they let those diseases spreads. And sometimes even intentionally spread them.

You have absolutely 0 evidence for your points concerning biological warfare on a massive scale

https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(14)64174-4/pdf

Biological warfare was something known and used way before the colonization of the Americas. So while yes, we have very little records of it, their is a HIGH probabability that BW was used to decimate and submit local populations.

You are just plainly lying to shit on Europeans.

I'm Europeean Einstein. I'm trying to show you the history of Europeean. You are simply trying to deny it out of baseless relativism and misscomprehension of history and the political movements of the world.

Where there's people, there's systems. Most civilizations in the world were doing war and establishing their own systems. The gentle savage trope is a lie.

Yes, And the European one was (and still is) an imperialist one. Which is the reasons why some countries still have problems recovering from it.

6 millions again huh? You can't even use Google because the maximum estimation is around 9 millions, but in ancient timesnitnwas normal chronists to inflate the numbers. Modern estimates say 1.7 in 200 years.

Which is exactly what I told you. Learn to read.

You also completely ignored my arguments about Muslims waging wars and taking over these lands because your woke brain legit can't picture a situation where oppression and imperialism aren't done by whites.

No. I spoke about people doing conquest. But you didn't read as usual and missed the point.

doesn't mean that they didn't because they were good people and Euros were evil

No one is telling you that Europeans were Evil and other good people. Can you just learn to read please ? You are inventing fantasical arguments to fight against. Just read what i'm telling you instead of trying to make me say something I never said.

What we are denouncing is not Europeans as a nation or culture, but the system and dumb people that pushed those Europeans to do bad things.

I reported the historical truths.

No. You are fantasizing history.

You do not understand the difference between imperialism and oppression on a world scale and simple act of conquests.

You just hate white people so you don't want to admit that they aren't more evil than other populations

I'm white Einstein.. And again, stop with you fantasical arguments. Learn to read.

People like you are basically liberals

This proves that you don't understand scat about politics.

Liberals are rightist. I'm a leftist. Literally the political opposite.

most of the political themes you care about are the same things liberals obsess over and apart from passing comments your interest in true left-wing politics is very superficial.

The day liberals will care about the end of capitalism.... call me.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

The Europeans had a technological edge

Not really, they only had better diseases they acquired from s*xual intercourse with farm animals. Deal with it. European civilisation is based on bestiality

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

Any other bright ideas? I suppose the Xhosa, Zulu, Basotho and Tswana should have just been removed so the Boers could have all of South Africa peacefully?

Two words: Bantu expansion. But I don't want to open this can of worms.

 

[Indigo]

What is going on here?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

What is going on here?

We're discussing who's the worst genocider race between indo-Europeans, Han Chinese, Bantu and Austronesians.

 

[Mathias]

What is going on here?

Israel vs Iran didn't happen yet

 

[Logiko]

What is going on here?

Someone who is grumpy that we remind them of European imperialism.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

What is going on here?

To put it simply, this is the world without Europeans according to Logiko and Bisoromi.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Forgot to mention Semites

We're discussing who's the worst genocider race between indo-Europeans, Han Chinese, Bantu and Austronesians.

 

[Indigo]

We're discussing who's the worst genocider race between indo-Europeans, Han Chinese, Bantu and Austronesians.

Someone who is grumpy that we remind them of European imperialism.

To put it simply, this is the world without Europeans according to Logiko and Bisoromi.

meh, don't care about that

 

[Mathias]

Forgot to mention Semites

You obviously mean simit

 

[Logiko]

That's your fantasy mate. Human will act badly if the system is bad. No matter their origins.

It just happen that the system created by Europeans was far more oppressive, hegemonic and imperialist that the other ones.

 

[Owl Ki]

The refusal to accept refugees led to those people being murdered by the nazis

Aye, I guess all those Jewish refugees that went to nearby nations like Poland, Czechoslovakia or France were safe then.....

Oh wait.

It is almost like a belligerent, expansionist, genocidal ethnostate that is out for conquest isn't going to be appeased after slaughtering one group that they don't like.

If Jewish refugees were all saved then it would have been all the Slavs needing saved from the Nazi meat grinder.

If the Palestinians are all saved then the Lebanese will be the next lot needing saving from the Israeli meat grinder.

It won't stop until Israel is brought to heel and assisting in its acts of ethnic cleansing would be an act of immense stupidity for the nations surrounding it.

Immigration is a net benefit to the economy

This isn't immigration, this is a mass refugee exodus we are talking about, you disingenuous clown.

Hey, if a mass refugee intake is so good then let's see Israel take in all these Arab refugees then.

if they actually cared about the people in Gaza, they’d save them.

These people are trapped in a war zone with no way out

"If they actually cared about them, they'd assist in their ethnic cleansing."

Nah mate, if they had the will then what they should do is diplomatically isolate Israel, sanction it, kick out all of Israel's diplomats and ambassadors, deny all Israeli flagged shipping, deny use of their airspace to Israeli flights and declare the IDF a terrorist organisation as a start. They would lead the way in isolating Israel from the rest of the world and treating it like the rogue, genocidal, pariah state it deserves to be treated as, not assist in the ethnic cleansing of their cultural brethren you morally bankrupt ghoul.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

If the Palestinians are all saved then the Lebanese will be the next lot needing saving from the Israeli meat grinder.

Israel is merely the USA's placeholder in the middle east

if they actually cared about the people in Gaza, they’d save them.

These people are trapped in a war zone with no way out

Yes

Immigration is a net benefit to the economy

Coerced immigration is brain drain

 

[Monkey D Theories]

A
Nah mate, if they had the will then what they should do is diplomatically isolate Israel, sanction it, kick out all of Israel's diplomats and ambassadors, deny all Israeli flagged shipping, deny use of their airspace to Israeli flights and declare the IDF a terrorist organisation as a start. They would lead the way in isolating Israel from the rest of the world and treating it like the rogue, genocidal, pariah state it deserves to be treated as, not assist in the ethnic cleansing of their cultural brethren you morally bankrupt ghoul.

that’s not mutually exclusive with accepting refugees

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

And I do believe the Arab states had tried that and nothing came of it

 

[Uncle Van]

There's a different between immigration and uncontrolled mass immigration. Immigration is indeed a net positive as it adds more to the welfare and social security system, and keeps the labor force strong as birthrate decline. Mass Immigration however bleeds out the wellfare system, gives politicians an excuse to push back the age of retirement and reduce government benefits, artificially pump housing prices, and gives corporations more opportunities to keep wages and benefits low.

When politicians are constantly speaking for mass Immigration, and corporations lobbying in favor it, that alone is a giant red flag.