Questions & Mysteries M3 - Shattered ... ? ?
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Why would that be an excuse? A warlord joining someone elses crew is not a normal occurrence. Him being a warlord is a title of strength but it says nothing about his strength in relation to Sanji's. Why would that be a point against Sanji when he isn't the captain of the crew? Also didn't Jinbe bring Big mom a poneglyph? His usefulness to Big mom seem to go past just strength.
Why not? If Sanji takes the same amount of damage from the same attack that would mean their endurance is somewhat comparable.
That is debatable. The BM fighting Jinbe was significantly weaker than the one Luffy and Sanji went against. Also wasn't it a lighting punch/swing that they blocked
Yet chopper was able to accomplish that but show how Sanji won't be able to?
How is his endurance better?
Sure for now we have yet to see the extent of Sanji's Haki but I'll give that to Jinbe
I definitely disagree with this. His strength is comparable with Sanji's
Why not? If Sanji takes the same amount of damage from the same attack that would mean their endurance is somewhat comparable.
That is debatable. The BM fighting Jinbe was significantly weaker than the one Luffy and Sanji went against. Also wasn't it a lighting punch/swing that they blocked
Yet chopper was able to accomplish that but show how Sanji won't be able to?
How is his endurance better?
Sure for now we have yet to see the extent of Sanji's Haki but I'll give that to Jinbe
I definitely disagree with this. His strength is comparable with Sanji's
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He is a formal warlord though. What do you mean it says nothing about their strength relation. Nobody will react like that to Sanji joining a crew hence it serves as portrayal in favor of Jinbei. Sanji wouldn't even be considered to being a warlord. I don't see how that affects my point in any negative. Jinbei isn't going around hunting for poneglyphs. His main attribute has always been his strength.
I'm still confused about this part. Are you talking about the final clash between Luffy and Jinbei when Sanji was in the middle? If so, you would be claiming that Sanji also has similar endurance to Luffy as well since he also took similar damage.
It was a lightning throw just as how she threw the fire previously. She was also aiming for Reiju. Luffy and Sanji had to intervene with attacks of their own.
That is not comparable to Jinbei standing his ground in direct force from BM..granted she was weakened, it still counts as a superior feat since she was using her sword and a named attack.
Chopper is not Sanji. That argument does not work. He has a specific ability for taking big hits as such it is a superior defense than Sanji's. That's like claiming Brook was able to cut a homie so Sanji should be able to do same too.
Surviving attacks from Akainu is already enough to put him above Sanji who got stunned by 5 colored strings enough for DD to turn away and move towards the SHP and implied to get defeated by overheat
Him being able to contest in strength for a while with BM granted she was weakened is a superior feat in strength
I'm still confused about this part. Are you talking about the final clash between Luffy and Jinbei when Sanji was in the middle? If so, you would be claiming that Sanji also has similar endurance to Luffy as well since he also took similar damage.
It was a lightning throw just as how she threw the fire previously. She was also aiming for Reiju. Luffy and Sanji had to intervene with attacks of their own.
That is not comparable to Jinbei standing his ground in direct force from BM..granted she was weakened, it still counts as a superior feat since she was using her sword and a named attack.
Chopper is not Sanji. That argument does not work. He has a specific ability for taking big hits as such it is a superior defense than Sanji's. That's like claiming Brook was able to cut a homie so Sanji should be able to do same too.
Surviving attacks from Akainu is already enough to put him above Sanji who got stunned by 5 colored strings enough for DD to turn away and move towards the SHP and implied to get defeated by overheat
Him being able to contest in strength for a while with BM granted she was weakened is a superior feat in strength
Yes but that's more down to his character being a running gag in terms of strength display. Sanji always impresses the people he goes up again when he performs he is mean't to be a surprise package. He might not have the same notoriety as Jinbe but that is not due to a lack of strength but rather due to being unknown.
At the time yes I would have thought so but then Luffy has been put through grueling experiences which broke my expectations of his power. The same can't be said for Jinbe imo.
I really wonder cause given how easily she swatted away Luffy in udon has me thinking the is a huge difference in the power output.
That is false. Choppers guard point has never been implied to be a superior defense it simply reduces the damage he recieves but he can still feel pain. Gedastu completely made it null so I seriously doubt that argument works. No it would be more like claiming Sanji can't speed blitz BM like Brook did. Unlike guard point we are told why broke can cut homies and exception has been made specifically for Brook. It's not the same thing
Being stunned isn't that bad given Luffy was momentarily knocked out by apoo's attack but fair enough I can give Jinbe the edge there
Isn't it more a haki feat than a strength feat?
At the time yes I would have thought so but then Luffy has been put through grueling experiences which broke my expectations of his power. The same can't be said for Jinbe imo.
I really wonder cause given how easily she swatted away Luffy in udon has me thinking the is a huge difference in the power output.
That is false. Choppers guard point has never been implied to be a superior defense it simply reduces the damage he recieves but he can still feel pain. Gedastu completely made it null so I seriously doubt that argument works. No it would be more like claiming Sanji can't speed blitz BM like Brook did. Unlike guard point we are told why broke can cut homies and exception has been made specifically for Brook. It's not the same thing
Being stunned isn't that bad given Luffy was momentarily knocked out by apoo's attack but fair enough I can give Jinbe the edge there
Isn't it more a haki feat than a strength feat?
Guys, Jinbe might be more powerful than Zoro and Sanji now but I think they will catch up to his level after this arc... It would be:
Luffy
-noticeable gap-
Zoro
Sanji
Jinbe
-noticeable gap-
Yamato
Franky
Brook
Robin
-noticeable gap-
Chopper
Nami
Usopp
Just think of when Oden joined the Roger Pirates... I'm sure Rayleigh and Gaban caught up with his level eventually...
Luffy
-noticeable gap-
Zoro
Sanji
Jinbe
-noticeable gap-
Yamato
Franky
Brook
Robin
-noticeable gap-
Chopper
Nami
Usopp
Just think of when Oden joined the Roger Pirates... I'm sure Rayleigh and Gaban caught up with his level eventually...
The Portrayal point is about how highly he is held by other characters in the OP world and how Oda shows him of. Those are directly related to strength because that is the main characteristic of Jinbei's character.
Hence I would doubt you would claim that Sanji is held to higher regard than Jinbei by OP world and by Oda.
For even better comparison, Asura can be said to having superior portrayal to Sanji because Kaido called him strong and he actually survived fighting Kaido 20 years ago. And Jinbei's portrayal is at least superior to that of Asura's.
There is hardly any difference in endurance between Luffy in FI and Luffy in DR or early WCI so you would be claiming Sanji has that level of endurance.
Luffy wasnt trying to block her attack from a strength standpoint. He was trying to apply his haki training to see if he could. He couldn't apply it and so he was easily swatted away since he offered Zero resistance.
Chopper's guard point is his own special ability. No other Zoan character has such an ability. So the point is entirely valid.
If Sanji was hit with the same attack BM used on chopper , he would obviously take damage because he has no defense.
Yes Sanji can't speed blitzed BM like Brook did because Brook is faster and doesn't need sky walk to move in the sky.
Only means Apoo's attack packs more AP than DD's attack on Sanji. Law was able to effectively block same attack with just haki.
It is both because he was able to hold his ground for some moments before being overpowered
Hence I would doubt you would claim that Sanji is held to higher regard than Jinbei by OP world and by Oda.
For even better comparison, Asura can be said to having superior portrayal to Sanji because Kaido called him strong and he actually survived fighting Kaido 20 years ago. And Jinbei's portrayal is at least superior to that of Asura's.
There is hardly any difference in endurance between Luffy in FI and Luffy in DR or early WCI so you would be claiming Sanji has that level of endurance.
Luffy wasnt trying to block her attack from a strength standpoint. He was trying to apply his haki training to see if he could. He couldn't apply it and so he was easily swatted away since he offered Zero resistance.
Chopper's guard point is his own special ability. No other Zoan character has such an ability. So the point is entirely valid.
If Sanji was hit with the same attack BM used on chopper , he would obviously take damage because he has no defense.
Yes Sanji can't speed blitzed BM like Brook did because Brook is faster and doesn't need sky walk to move in the sky.
Only means Apoo's attack packs more AP than DD's attack on Sanji. Law was able to effectively block same attack with just haki.
It is both because he was able to hold his ground for some moments before being overpowered
But I don't claim that I specifically said Jinbe is held in higher regard(Has more notoriety) than Sanji and even Zoro for that matter but again that is not indicative of him being stronger than either of them as the circumstances aren't the same. Why? Jack has far superior portrayal than Jinbe and Ashura was shown to be capable of injuring him. I don't know how Jinbe has better portrayal than that.
There are clear noticeable differences in Luffy's endurance in FI,DR or WCI. Luffy has never stagnated after facing a difficult opponent WCI>DR>FI. I would be claiming that Sanji's endurance was similar to Luffy's before I knew G4 was a thing. Jinbe hasn't shown anything different since FI. All the moves he has used thus far(other than hardening) are the same moves he used on FI. Moves that Sanji was shown to be able to match. Unless Jinbe showcased something different there is no reason to assume that there is anything different about him from FI unlike Luffy who has gone through constant grueling battles.
That isn't true he failed to put a the haki barrier but that does not mean he didn't offer an resistance.
So? No other Zoan can use arm point either that doesn't make their arm strength less effective than Chopper's. It's special ability that improves his defense that doesn't not mean he is invulnerable. Like I said guard point was completely useless against Gedastu and Monster point Chopper durability is much better than his guard point. Brook can't move in the air unless he goes into his ghost form so I'm not sure where you got this from.
Sanji never tried to block the attack and failed to do so, he got hit by the attack and was also restrained by DD so he could not even defend against overheat. They aren't the same instant. If Sanji got stunned by DD's attack yet was not stunned by Vergo's attack even if it broke his fibula nor was has he been stunned by any other attack he has received thus far wouldn't that mean the AP of 5 colored strings is quiet high provided it connects cleanly?
Alright though I still hold the belief that their is a massive difference in the strength BM had vs the strength she had when she clashed with G4.
There are clear noticeable differences in Luffy's endurance in FI,DR or WCI. Luffy has never stagnated after facing a difficult opponent WCI>DR>FI. I would be claiming that Sanji's endurance was similar to Luffy's before I knew G4 was a thing. Jinbe hasn't shown anything different since FI. All the moves he has used thus far(other than hardening) are the same moves he used on FI. Moves that Sanji was shown to be able to match. Unless Jinbe showcased something different there is no reason to assume that there is anything different about him from FI unlike Luffy who has gone through constant grueling battles.
That isn't true he failed to put a the haki barrier but that does not mean he didn't offer an resistance.
So? No other Zoan can use arm point either that doesn't make their arm strength less effective than Chopper's. It's special ability that improves his defense that doesn't not mean he is invulnerable. Like I said guard point was completely useless against Gedastu and Monster point Chopper durability is much better than his guard point. Brook can't move in the air unless he goes into his ghost form so I'm not sure where you got this from.
Sanji never tried to block the attack and failed to do so, he got hit by the attack and was also restrained by DD so he could not even defend against overheat. They aren't the same instant. If Sanji got stunned by DD's attack yet was not stunned by Vergo's attack even if it broke his fibula nor was has he been stunned by any other attack he has received thus far wouldn't that mean the AP of 5 colored strings is quiet high provided it connects cleanly?
Alright though I still hold the belief that their is a massive difference in the strength BM had vs the strength she had when she clashed with G4.
His notoriety comes from his strength so it doesn't change the main point. It is portrayal hence a plus for him. Jack does not have superior portrayal to Jinbei.
There really aren't. Luffy wasn't pushed all out in FI nor in PH. It is only in DR that he went all out hence there is no difference which can be ascertained in endurance for Luffy between FI and DR. If you have an instance, you can provide it.
Jinbei has hardly had any match since FI so I don't know what else you want him to show.
It is though. Barrier haki isn't about using strength as hyogoro was even able to protect himself. Luffy's projection failed so there was nothing providing resistance.
That's not the point though. The guard point gives him a superior defense to Sanji. Gedatsu had the jet dial though which gave him penetrating power but even that, the guard point reduced the damage. Compare to Sanji who got knocked by the impact dial. Also you didn't address the comparison, would Sanji if placed in the same situation as Chopper v BM take no damage from the slap?
Brook moved in the air when he blitzed BM
The attack's AP isn't that high. The fact that Law effectively blocked it with just haki is enough proof. Also it is below athlete thread which Luffy with haki couldn't effectively block.
We are talking about endurance though. Jinbei took Akainu's manga punches and was still moving whiles Sanji was stunned by five colored strings and about to be defeated with Overheat.
Yes I agree that there is a difference in strength. However, the comparison being made is the full health BM throwing Zeus being blocked by an attack of both Luffy and Sanji ... with Jinbei effectively blocking with just haki and holding ground for a while vs weakened BM using a named attack
There really aren't. Luffy wasn't pushed all out in FI nor in PH. It is only in DR that he went all out hence there is no difference which can be ascertained in endurance for Luffy between FI and DR. If you have an instance, you can provide it.
Jinbei has hardly had any match since FI so I don't know what else you want him to show.
It is though. Barrier haki isn't about using strength as hyogoro was even able to protect himself. Luffy's projection failed so there was nothing providing resistance.
That's not the point though. The guard point gives him a superior defense to Sanji. Gedatsu had the jet dial though which gave him penetrating power but even that, the guard point reduced the damage. Compare to Sanji who got knocked by the impact dial. Also you didn't address the comparison, would Sanji if placed in the same situation as Chopper v BM take no damage from the slap?
Brook moved in the air when he blitzed BM
The attack's AP isn't that high. The fact that Law effectively blocked it with just haki is enough proof. Also it is below athlete thread which Luffy with haki couldn't effectively block.
We are talking about endurance though. Jinbei took Akainu's manga punches and was still moving whiles Sanji was stunned by five colored strings and about to be defeated with Overheat.
Yes I agree that there is a difference in strength. However, the comparison being made is the full health BM throwing Zeus being blocked by an attack of both Luffy and Sanji ... with Jinbei effectively blocking with just haki and holding ground for a while vs weakened BM using a named attack
If yamato ends up joining low key wouldn't mind her being one grouped with sanji and zoro instead of jinbe
Tbh while i do think jinbe was stronger than zoro and sanji at the start of the timeskip they imo might have a lot more potential. Same with yamato maybe
Plus if jinbe is grouped with the older trio instead the more i can wank them for being comparable to jinbe
I wouldn't mind franky and jinbe being close in strength
Tbh while i do think jinbe was stronger than zoro and sanji at the start of the timeskip they imo might have a lot more potential. Same with yamato maybe
Plus if jinbe is grouped with the older trio instead the more i can wank them for being comparable to jinbe
I wouldn't mind franky and jinbe being close in strength
Could you provide any manga panel that backs this claim? coz I can't remember any panel that suggested this. One could claim that Oden was stronger than both Rayleigh and Gaban but Oden being on par with Ray but stronger than Gaban?
Also yamato defo being stronger than Sanji post-wano is such a ridiculous claim. Right now the Tobi Roppo have been tasked to capture Yamato. Again "The Tobi Roppo"~!, not the calamities, so how is a character that Kaidou deems to be capable of being handled by the Tobi Roppo defo stronger than Post-Wano Sanji? A character that isn't even confirmed to be Calamity level as of yet?
The most ironic thing about this is that the same Tobi Roppo that have been tasked to capture Yamato have failed to capture current Sanji on at least two occasions.
Also yamato defo being stronger than Sanji post-wano is such a ridiculous claim. Right now the Tobi Roppo have been tasked to capture Yamato. Again "The Tobi Roppo"~!, not the calamities, so how is a character that Kaidou deems to be capable of being handled by the Tobi Roppo defo stronger than Post-Wano Sanji? A character that isn't even confirmed to be Calamity level as of yet?
The most ironic thing about this is that the same Tobi Roppo that have been tasked to capture Yamato have failed to capture current Sanji on at least two occasions.