Controversial General Political Discussion

[Brush D. Teeth]

That's why you need to understand why you are intervening in the first place. The idea that you need to strike at any point is fundamentally flawed. It's reality that doesn't work like that. In reality, what you may see as a threat, might simply be someone who is scared and wants your help.


That's the speech of people that are okay with the status co and do not care that people like me are killed every month by the police. So sorry, but no. it's not the way it should be. We must change the system.



Well.. maybe the solution is less policing, more listening :)

The systemic violence in the police either in the US or in Europe are a scientific fact and data.

It's not a myth.

You don't understand, someone responding to a possible violent situation can't know if a person will use violence or not, and they are not supposed to take chances with their lives. You also don't know if a person will be violent or not because psychology is not an exact science, even a psychiatrist can't know for sure especially if they don't know the person. The surest way to prevent such tragedies is by taking precautions and to make sure that a person with mental problems won't find himself in this kind of situation. I know it really isn't easy but it's the best way.

Random post with no relevance to the discussion
Go back to eating pizza and being in the Mafia

You probably think officers have 10 seconds future sight ACoO.

 

[Logiko]

This was supposed to be a bad thing?

????

I don't understand this reaction

Me too

You don't understand

I think I do mate. Looking at the fact that I'm looking for actual research on the subject.

someone responding to a possible violent situation can't know if a person will use violence or not

That's why you need to understand the context before the violent behavior first and send the appropriate personnal.

And not Rambo.

But the idea that people with mental disorder will use violence is actually a common ableist stereotype. Just a few week ago I was told to take my medication just because I raised my voice a little louder and the person was scared (and knew that I was taking meds).. image what happens when someone is having a skyzophrenic panic. Ask Monkey D Theories (nicely) what would happen if the Police charged in during a crisis of his relative.

Bringing the police to a mental health crisis is MORTAL (for the person who has mental health, the Police is usually protected behind guns)

You also don't know if a person will be violent or not because psychology is not an exact science, even a psychiatrist can't know for sure especially if they don't know the person.

Well.. instead of expecting the worse, maybe expect something better and instead of treating people with mental disabilities as threats... maybe try to look at them as human beings... just a thought.

The surest way to prevent such tragedies is by taking precautions

Yeah. By understanding the context FIRST before inteverning and sending the appropriate personnal.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

????


Me too



I think I do mate. Looking at the fact that I'm looking for actual research on the subject.



That's why you need to understand the context before the violent behavior first and send the appropriate personnal.

And not Rambo.

But the idea that people with mental disorder will use violence is actually a common ableist stereotype. Just a few week ago I was told to take my medication just because I raised my voice a little louder and the person was scared (and knew that I was taking meds).. image what happens when someone is having a skyzophrenic panic. Ask Monkey D Theories (nicely) what would happen if the Police charged in during a crisis of his relative.

Bringing the police to a mental health crisis is MORTAL (for the person who has mental health, the Police is usually protected behind guns)



Well.. instead of expecting the worse, maybe expect something better and instead of treating people with mental disabilities as threats... maybe try to look at them as human beings... just a thought.



Yeah. By understanding the context FIRST before inteverning and sending the appropriate personnal.

The whole point is that you are not supposed to sit around and expect to see what happens as a respondent to a possibly violent situation. Police officers are not paid to hope nothing bad will happen to them. If tomorrow I run towards an armed guard because I want to hug them they will shoot at me. If they call you for some disorder that's happening you also don't have time to inform yourself of who a guy may or may not be, check out their medical history and have a call with their psychiatrist.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

????

Don't you agree that the "state" is the bearer of the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence?

Why would that be a bad thing per se?

 

[Logiko]

And People still don't understand when I tell them that Hollywood goons are not a bunch of leftists but neoliberals.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1835716623128264787

Don't you agree that the "state" is the bearer of the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence?

Why would that be a bad thing per se?

No. I don't agree. The state's violence is rarely legitimate.

The whole point is that you are not supposed to sit around and expect to see what happens

The point is that you are supposed to gather enough information BEFORE intervening in order to do a good job.

And those information should be enough to understand if this is due to mental health or simple case of violent behavior. Because usually, the one calling is someone who KNOWS the person.

Police officers are not paid to hope nothing bad will happen to them.

Don't go for the heat if you can't take the heat. You don't see firefighters not expecting to have an accident at some point. Well, it's the same thing here. The police is just resting on the systemic ableism and systemic racism to justify their usage of violence.

If tomorrow I run towards an armed guard because I want to hug them they will shoot at me

And you don't see how crazy this situation is ? Well.. no wonder you don't see the problem..

If they call you for some disorder that's happening you also don't have time to inform yourself of who a guy may or may not be, check out their medical history and have a call with their psychiatrist.

My point exactly. hence why training is not sufficient and hence why instead of the Police intervening, direct qualified personnal must be able to take those calls.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

And People still don't understand when I tell them that Hollywood goons are not a bunch of leftists but neoliberals.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1835716623128264787

No. I don't agree. The state's violence is rarely legitimate.



The point is that you are supposed to gather enough information BEFORE intervening in order to do a good job.

And those information should be enough to understand if this is due to mental health or simple case of violent behavior. Because usually, the one calling is someone who KNOWS the person.


Don't go for the heat if you can't take the heat. You don't see firefighters not expecting to have an accident at some point. Well, it's the same thing here. The police is just resting on the systemic ableism and systemic racism to justify their usage of violence.



And you don't see how crazy this situation is ? Well.. no wonder you don't see the problem..



My point exactly. hence why training is not sufficient and hence why instead of the Police intervening, direct qualified personnal must be able to take those calls.

Idk what to say, you guys seem to live in a world of rainbows and stuff. Imagine being called for violent disorders and spending two hours researching the person's history before intervening. And then letting him charge at you because he probably wants a hug. I don't have anything more to say.

Don't you agree that the "state" is the bearer of the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence?

Why would that be a bad thing per se?

They think the police should freeze people using psychic powers or look into the future to see if they are going to harm anyone.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

And People still don't understand when I tell them that Hollywood goons are not a bunch of leftists but neoliberals.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1835716623128264787

No. I don't agree. The state's violence is rarely legitimate.



The point is that you are supposed to gather enough information BEFORE intervening in order to do a good job.

And those information should be enough to understand if this is due to mental health or simple case of violent behavior. Because usually, the one calling is someone who KNOWS the person.


Don't go for the heat if you can't take the heat. You don't see firefighters not expecting to have an accident at some point. Well, it's the same thing here. The police is just resting on the systemic ableism and systemic racism to justify their usage of violence.



And you don't see how crazy this situation is ? Well.. no wonder you don't see the problem..



My point exactly. hence why training is not sufficient and hence why instead of the Police intervening, direct qualified personnal must be able to take those calls.

The point is: violence is an intrinsic feature of the state. Of all states. This is the most famous definition of state is social sciences

 

[Logiko]

Idk what to say, you guys seem to live in a world of rainbows and stuff

No. Just in a glass full kinda world. The reason why the police kill people with mental disability is because of the stigma of Ableism and the idea that those people are a threat (even if in some cases, they can be). We are simply telling you that Policemen are not educated to face correctly the problem and it will only end with violence. This need to be taken care of by professionnals.

Imagine being called for violent disorders and spending two hours researching the person's history before intervening.

You don't need a lot of information to understand that the problem is a mental illness and the personn is usually not violent mate.

The point is: violence is an intrinsic feature of the state

This is not wrong. But most of that is due to capitalism. But yeah. This doesn't mean that the violence of the state is legitimate or that the state has a monopole of the legitimate violence.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

No. Just in a glass full kinda world. The reason why the police kill people with mental disability is because of the stigma of Ableism and the idea that those people are a threat (even if in some cases, they can be). We are simply telling you that Policemen are not educated to face correctly the problem and it will only end with violence. This need to be taken care of by professionnals.


You don't need a lot of information to understand that the problem is a mental illness and the personn is usually not violent mate.



This is not wrong. But most of that is due to capitalism. But yeah. This doesn't mean that the violence of the state is legitimate or that the state has a monopole of the legitimate violence.

Officers neutralize people who exhibit certain behaviours regardless of their mental condition.

 

[Daniel]

It doesn't always work, can miss or be dodged and most often only has one shot.

It wasn't the first time that tasers capable of firing multiple "rounds" were being developed for use by police.

Non-lethal use of force/defense by officers for those who are in dangerous, but non-lethal scenarios.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

It wasn't the first time that tasers capable of firing multiple "rounds" were being developed for use by police.

Non-lethal use of force/defense by officers for those who are in dangerous, but non-lethal scenarios.

I know about multiple-shots tasers, but I don't think they're very common yet. Nor as effective as a gun.

 

[Daniel]

There's seriously people who think you can remove the police and send in psychologists when an emergency arises lol.

Social workers would be the more suitable word here, but they all get manhandled if the perpetrator is having a meltdown, and/or on stimulants causing them to completely berserk.

Was about to mention one more thing but unfortunately some things are better left unsaid.

 

[Logiko]

That's what you think. But you won't understand the problem even after I give you data, so this discussion is useless

------------------------------
------------------------------

Anyway guyz (especially men). I want to talk about something I mentionned briefly at the very beginning of this thread (or the Nakama thread I don't remember) but I never went back to:

Your twitter feed.

You see, representation is important. You will often hear me say that, as representation is important for people in minorities or difficulties. But something I don't mention a lot is that representation are made FIRST for people OUTSIDE of those communities.

For example : If we ask media to do more representation of black people, it's because we want people that are not in contact with racialized people to still have a way to stay in touch with this representation. This is done in order to avoid stigmatisation.

So this brings me to twitter: Did you guys ever stopped and made the ratio of different representations in your twitter feed ?

For example: How many of you guys can tell me that they have a simple equal number of women and equal number of men in their subscriptions ? My guess .. looking at what was said in this thread.. will be not many. And yet this is VERY important.

Why ?

Because depending on the gender, what a person will live will greatly differ. And thus the experiences of life will differ too. Same for the creations, the discourses, the argumentations, the behaviors etc. And this applies to the color of skins, to the ethnie, to the sexual preferences.

Let's take me for example. Until a few month ago, my feed was 95% white. I almost had no racialized people in my sub.. so, when a trend started to rise about the violence against black women in France on twitter.. I was simply not aware and completely uneducated on the subject. So I missed the trend until it reached the white circle of feminists that I follow. But this is a problem since white women do not experience the same oppression as racialized women. In other word, I had no way of understanding what a black woman live day by day on the social network.

So, what did I do ? I started to search for good content coming for black and racialized minorities. And since then, I literally have been educated on a LOT of topics such as the oppressions against Tzigans, Kanaki natives, Muslims (even if I understood a lot about that already, and simply what live black women.


So... tell me. When did you last checked your subscriptions ?

If you have a majority of cis and white straight men... I recommend to search for the content of women, of LGBTQI+, black and racialized people, people with disabilities or conditions either mental or physical etc..

Truly, it can only give you a better vision of the world

Think about it :)

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Social workers would be the more suitable word here, but they all get manhandled if the perpetrator is having a meltdown, and/or on stimulants causing them to completely berserk.

Was about to mention one more thing but unfortunately some things are better left unsaid.

What's even weirder is that people who want to remove the police are the same who want uncontrolled immigration from places with a higher crime rate. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Logiko]

It doesn't make sense.

Because you don't think in a materialistic way.

Immigration is not the problem. The problem are the reason why people are migrating and the reasons why when they arrive, they are parked like animals in small neighborehoods. The violence grow because of the treatment of the state and pauvrety, not because immigratns are violent. They are just people like you and me.

What we ask is for a restructuration of the system that could prevent this pauverty and those discrimination that create violences. But for that, you need to deconstruct/destroy a lot of systemic issues like racism or liberalism.

The defund of the Police can't be done alone, it's part of a restructuration. The reason why you don't understand that is because you think in a liberal way : "this politic will prevent that and this politic will help that" when in reality, all politics are part of a system and if we don't attack the system, nothing will change.

Materialism applied to politics = Seeing the structure behind the political and social behaviors. For ex : It's the understanding that to stop sexism, you can't just tell all the men to "overcome" their sexist bias, you need to do that AND take down the system that create sexist representations and behavior and you need to push people to destroy the patriarchy.

To give you an other example with Worstgen : A liberal way to approach toxicity is me telling people to stop being sexist one by one. A materialistic approach is me trying to change the structure of the forum to push people to be less toxic.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Because you don't think in a materialistic way.

Immigration is not the problem. The problem are the reason why people are migrating and the reasons why when they arrive, they are parked like animals in small neighborehoods. The violence grow because of the treatment of the state and pauvrety, not because immigratns are violent. They are just people like you and me.

What we ask is for a restructuration of the system that could prevent this pauverty and those discrimination that create violences. But for that, you need to deconstruct/destroy a lot of systemic issues like racism or liberalism.

The defund of the Police can't be done alone, it's part of a restructuration. The reason why you don't understand that is because you think in a liberal way : "this politic will prevent that and this politic will help that" when in reality, all politics are part of a system and if we don't attack the system, nothing will change.

Materialism applied to politics = Seeing the structure behind the political and social behaviors. For ex : It's the understanding that to stop sexism, you can't just tell all the men to "overcome" their sexist bias, you need to do that AND take down the system that create sexist representations and behavior and you need to push people to destroy the patriarchy.

To give you an other example with Worstgen : A liberal way to approach toxicity is me telling people to stop being sexist one by one. A materialistic approach is me trying to change the structure of the forum to push people to be less toxic.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I swear C4N needs to get another hobby, This is detrimental to his mental health. even if he thinks otherwise. He's gone so far down the rabbit hole. He is like if Truman looked away from all the hints given to him just to stay blissfully unaware. He doesn't want to exit the Matrix etc. kek

 

[Logiko]

I swear C4N needs to get another hobby, This is detrimental to his mental health. even if he thinks otherwise. He's gone so far down the rabbit hole. He is like if Truman looked away from all the hints given to him just to stay blissfully unaware. He doesn't want to exit the Matrix etc. kek

It's funny, I could swear you were talking about you in that sentence. Remind me how many researches and valuble sources you shared in this thread you dear magnificient genius ?



Little hint :

 

[Ravagerblade]

It's funny, I could swear you were talking about you in that sentence. Remind me how many researches and valuble sources you shared in this thread you dear magnificient genius ?



Little hint :

I never considered anything you've done as Valuable. So again such shit made by you is Subjective.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

I never considered anything you've done as Valuable. So again such shit made by you is Subjective.

I'm tired arguing with Logiko for tonight, it's up to you now.