Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
My assumption that it's not lylo comes from a basic assumption that host wouldn't include any more than 4 scum, pretty trivial.

Though if Alex scum sides you can argue it's psuedo lylo.

Should point out the claims I'm defending him from grubbily mining are...yours, Orca's, York's? Do you scum read any of these people?
I don't particularly care about York's claim, it should be said. She already claimed some resistance to vote manipulation. And based on her positioning around Luka, probably good to assume she's town.

Moreover, it's better to mass claim before we actually hit LyLo. Even being one phase away from LyLo is a good time to do it. Holding it off is just posturing from you.
 
If you don't believe me on Ratchet/Charles - Charlie doesn't even remotely resemble his town game and has 0 direction, isn't questioning claims or solving, and did not seem convinced whatsoever in the process of voting for any players he has lynched.

All the while, he's been soft pushing Ratchet all game, which he'd probably be too scared to do if Ratchet was town.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
So here's the other side of the coin dear reader: I'm pretty sure Ratchet/Charles are both scum and part of their game plan is to help map out claims from remaining players in order to look for an out or to plan around actions around what has been claimed.

If you're not an immediately lynch candidate you should ask why bother claiming if you have more stuff you can use. If you don't have shit then go for it
Easy - because it's important to get the full scape of the land or as much as is relevant. A lot of these slots have barely played, so any info to read them from is good info.

Again, I'm saying this mostly out of posterity, because I know you will have no trouble convincing these people to lynch the Cop. But your arguments do not stand up to scrutiny, not at all, and I think the fact you've come in with a very clear agenda should be pretty transparent to anyone actually invested in playing. Which is probably just me.
 
I don't particularly care about York's claim, it should be said. She already claimed some resistance to vote manipulation. And based on her positioning around Luka, probably good to assume she's town.

Moreover, it's better to mass claim before we actually hit LyLo. Even being one phase away from LyLo is a good time to do it. Holding it off is just posturing from you.
No it's not posturing we currently have 0 investigative claims besides you and we might as well throw them out the window if we out them. And once again, based on what claims have flipped so far and what assumptions have been made about alignment - what do you expect here?
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
If you don't believe me on Ratchet/Charles - Charlie doesn't even remotely resemble his town game and has 0 direction, isn't questioning claims or solving, and did not seem convinced whatsoever in the process of voting for any players he has lynched.

All the while, he's been soft pushing Ratchet all game, which he'd probably be too scared to do if Ratchet was town.
Best part of this is I actually agreed on Charles being scummy earlier, so I don't actually defend him from any of this. Main reason I read him town is because I think he was a bit forthcoming with info on his claim yesterday when he otherwise didn't need to be, and also, that Ultra's play as scum makes more sense if he forces a dichotomy between Charles and I. Note that he actually makes no real attempt to tie Charles to me other than to say it supports his angle.
 
Easy - because it's important to get the full scape of the land or as much as is relevant. A lot of these slots have barely played, so any info to read them from is good info.

Again, I'm saying this mostly out of posterity, because I know you will have no trouble convincing these people to lynch the Cop. But your arguments do not stand up to scrutiny, not at all, and I think the fact you've come in with a very clear agenda should be pretty transparent to anyone actually invested in playing. Which is probably just me.
If play is the issue then why don't you just push claims out of players who are being scummy? Doesn't make much sense to acknowledge town is losing and go "yep let's eliminate all possibility of a windfall turnaround by having everyone claim"
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
No it's not posturing we currently have 0 investigative claims besides you and we might as well throw them out the window if we out them. And once again, based on what claims have flipped so far and what assumptions have been made about alignment - what do you expect here?
You're the one who sees a cop claim and dismisses it (because you're scum) off the back of 0 investigative roles otherwise... I mean you tell me. Use your words, instead of mealy mouthing around the point where you're actually saying nothing at all.

Info is info is info. No reason whatsoever to hold it back now when we know we need to get the lynch right.
 
You're the one who sees a cop claim and dismisses it (because you're scum) off the back of 0 investigative roles otherwise... I mean you tell me. Use your words, instead of mealy mouthing around the point where you're actually saying nothing at all.

Info is info is info. No reason whatsoever to hold it back now when we know we need to get the lynch right.
Who says I'm dismissing it? My proposal is currently to lynch Charles and revisit you tomorrow
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
If play is the issue then why don't you just push claims out of players who are being scummy? Doesn't make much sense to acknowledge town is losing and go "yep let's eliminate all possibility of a windfall turnaround by having everyone claim"
Ah, well see Ultra, almost everyone left playing has barely played. Polar, Orca, York, Apollo, Gad, Alexis. RA before you replaced him. That leaves Charlie, me and Saber. Saber hasn't done much, and Charlie dropped off yesterday. So it's mostly just me.

So there is very very little to read them from. Apollo shot scum somehow, so great, we can clear him. York discredited the Luka clear and pushed there. Great, we can clear here too. It's a more tenuous clear, but we have to make assumptions somewhere. That's how it's supposed to work. The rest? There is almost nothing from which to read them. Any one of them could be scum, and I'm mostly just guessing. That's why we get claims.

I want your claim because you have been actually scummy. And your slot before did absolutely nothing. Hence, why we mass claim.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
Who says I'm dismissing it? My proposal is currently to lynch Charles and revisit you tomorrow
I don't care about your proposal - why would I? You came in today, cherry picked one post from Emko, and tried to force a dichotomy between Charles and all, and STILL you've shown absolutely no consideration for a wider solve. I mean, I think you're a good player. As town, you don't make null slots worse. But that's what you've done here. It's very transparently an agenda on your part. There is just no indication that you've actually given any thought to your positions beyond a light probing.

I would expect something like this from an RA or a Charlie. Even a Saber. But not from you. I would expect you to come in and have a pretty good grasp of how the game has gotten to this state. I mean it's not a difficult read.

And when I see Ultra pushing shit, I don't tend to assume he's just actually shit. No, I assume he's scum. I'm not prepared to just let you dictate the terms of the lynch when there is 0 reason to read you town. 0.
 
Ah, well see Ultra, almost everyone left playing has barely played. Polar, Orca, York, Apollo, Gad, Alexis. RA before you replaced him. That leaves Charlie, me and Saber. Saber hasn't done much, and Charlie dropped off yesterday. So it's mostly just me.

So there is very very little to read them from. Apollo shot scum somehow, so great, we can clear him. York discredited the Luka clear and pushed there. Great, we can clear here too. It's a more tenuous clear, but we have to make assumptions somewhere. That's how it's supposed to work. The rest? There is almost nothing from which to read them. Any one of them could be scum, and I'm mostly just guessing. That's why we get claims.

I want your claim because you have been actually scummy. And your slot before did absolutely nothing. Hence, why we mass claim.
Why bother playing conservatively if by your admission town is behind, it's basically the only metric that we're not getting totally destroyed by. Our only scum flip has because some unclaimed guy shot Luka.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
It's literally a brute force explosion of info where you put all your chips in hoping to piece together the game. Please at least try to make it difficult Ultra.
 
A mass claim is the opposite of playing conservatively.
No it's lower risk and lower reward. You get the benefit of maybe an incidental clear or two (maybe), with some confusion because most everyone here is terrible at rolespec. But you kneecap all your comeback potential, because all the roles can be planned around. If we were down to 1 scum wouldn't even question having everyone claim
 
It's literally a brute force explosion of info where you put all your chips in hoping to piece together the game. Please at least try to make it difficult Ultra.
You haven't even evaluated the claims in front of your face, guarantee we're gonna ask everyone to claim and then be exactly at square 1, at best.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
No it's lower risk and lower reward. You get the benefit of maybe an incidental clear or two (maybe), with some confusion because most everyone here is terrible at rolespec. But you kneecap all your comeback potential, because all the roles can be planned around. If we were down to 1 scum wouldn't even question having everyone claim
It's objectively high risk lol, good god what dreck. It's better to do it now than tomorrow and be left in LyLo needing to piece the game together. An incidental clear or two would be PERFECT because we only really need, in addition to our self, 1 or two more townies to be cleared.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
You haven't even evaluated the claims in front of your face, guarantee we're gonna ask everyone to claim and then be exactly at square 1, at best.
Sure I have. It's part of why I'm moving Charles to lean town. Now this is somewhat offset by Fuji designing his game to be obnoxious, but I don't promise a full solve, just a kickstarter of discussion which is all we really need. Again I need to point out that over half the game has been sleeping all game long. So yes if this gets them engaged and gives us something to read them from, I'll take it, and I'd much much MUCH rather do it now than later.
 
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