Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
The thing with Wei is, even though they they’re also after Han territory (at least until recently), hurting Qin should be much more important to them.
They can take Han territory on their own. If the Qin lost all their assets in Han, they would be completely fucked.
So fucked, they could take Choyou, Sanyou, and then some.
They can take Han territory on their own. If the Qin lost all their assets in Han, they would be completely fucked.
So fucked, they could take Choyou, Sanyou, and then some.
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No reason for Wei and Zhao to be sweating and running around to help Han just yet.
With Ouhon and Mouten blocking their path you need an army in the 100's of thousands to get past them and still would have to fight another battle which isn't gonna gain you an inch of territory in return.
Qin has suffered back to back defeats, has a number disadvantage and their soldiers are not well trained so it's best to wait and see if Han can crush them or not.
If Wakua Kan gets defeated then they can move and stop the Qin before they can take Han.
With Ouhon and Mouten blocking their path you need an army in the 100's of thousands to get past them and still would have to fight another battle which isn't gonna gain you an inch of territory in return.
Qin has suffered back to back defeats, has a number disadvantage and their soldiers are not well trained so it's best to wait and see if Han can crush them or not.
If Wakua Kan gets defeated then they can move and stop the Qin before they can take Han.
There are several, you need only go back a page or two.
This is frankly ridiculous.
The Gaku Ka and Gyoku Hou are only 50K. The former is stretched over vast territory, and the latter is holed up in a city they won't be leaving any time soon.
Even if Qin is defeated, which they are not confident will happen, that will come at great cost to Han.
Han will be compromised, and ripe for the taking by another state. The equilibirum it represents as a buffer state that keeps all parties honest would be destroyed.
While it might make sense for Wei to hold off, Zhao have no interest in Han territory. They do have a vested interest in destroying Qin's military capabilities for unification. They thought they achieved that through their sacrifices at Hango, yet Qin pulled out another 300K soldiers from seemingly nowhere.
Chu should already be involved as well. In fact, these 3 rival states to Qin should be on the same page on this occasion on a truce basis, not allyship.
A weakened Han is not good for any of the states that want it to maintain its place as the buffer state.
Prior to these 2 defeats the Qin were on a decade long undefeated streak in which they inflicted devastating losses on Zhao, Wei and Chu. None of them should breathe easy. They should all be already sending Han aid or at least attacking their shares borders to make some noise and divert resources.
This is frankly ridiculous.
The Gaku Ka and Gyoku Hou are only 50K. The former is stretched over vast territory, and the latter is holed up in a city they won't be leaving any time soon.
Even if Qin is defeated, which they are not confident will happen, that will come at great cost to Han.
Han will be compromised, and ripe for the taking by another state. The equilibirum it represents as a buffer state that keeps all parties honest would be destroyed.
While it might make sense for Wei to hold off, Zhao have no interest in Han territory. They do have a vested interest in destroying Qin's military capabilities for unification. They thought they achieved that through their sacrifices at Hango, yet Qin pulled out another 300K soldiers from seemingly nowhere.
Chu should already be involved as well. In fact, these 3 rival states to Qin should be on the same page on this occasion on a truce basis, not allyship.
A weakened Han is not good for any of the states that want it to maintain its place as the buffer state.
Prior to these 2 defeats the Qin were on a decade long undefeated streak in which they inflicted devastating losses on Zhao, Wei and Chu. None of them should breathe easy. They should all be already sending Han aid or at least attacking their shares borders to make some noise and divert resources.
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Whatever happens next, I have no interest whatsoever in seeing Shin in an extended duel against any of these dudes.
This was 5 YEARS AGO. Injured, starving and generally nerfed from 15 days of fighting.
Unless they have a STR 96 or higher, I ain't interested in seeing Shin duel.
If the duel goes on, let it be because Shin is trying to get his opponent to surrender.
I have my issues with the Three Pillars part of the arc, but I'm enjoying the Nanyou bit.
It's the most I've liked an arc in some time.
This was 5 YEARS AGO. Injured, starving and generally nerfed from 15 days of fighting.
Unless they have a STR 96 or higher, I ain't interested in seeing Shin duel.
If the duel goes on, let it be because Shin is trying to get his opponent to surrender.
I have my issues with the Three Pillars part of the arc, but I'm enjoying the Nanyou bit.
It's the most I've liked an arc in some time.
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This was 5 YEARS AGO. Injured, starving and generally nerfed from 15 days of fighting.
Unless they have a STR 96 and higher, I ain't interested in seeing Shin duel.
If the duel goes on, let it be because Shin is trying to get the his opponent to surrender.
Unless they have a STR 96 and higher, I ain't interested in seeing Shin duel.
If the duel goes on, let it be because Shin is trying to get the his opponent to surrender.
I don't think Hou Ken should've had a part in Shukai, but it happened.
Those feats happened.
And they weren't that crazy cause we saw Shin fighting Gai Mou for an extended period of time. Granted, Gai Mou was rusty and not going all out, but all the same.
Neither Yoko Yoko nor Haku'Ou Koku look like they should be able to hang with him.
Those feats happened.
And they weren't that crazy cause we saw Shin fighting Gai Mou for an extended period of time. Granted, Gai Mou was rusty and not going all out, but all the same.
Neither Yoko Yoko nor Haku'Ou Koku look like they should be able to hang with him.
Their job is to stop the aid so ofcourse they would try and intercept or attack from behind the enemy army moving to aid Han. For you to get past them in time and have enough man power left to make a difference in the upcoming battle you will need an army of over 100k at the very least.
Zhao has already lost armies in the 100's of thousands in the past couple of years so makes sense that they would try to sit this one out and try to rebuild strength and enjoy their victory while Wei waits and sees which place they should attack depending on the situation and how the battle unfolds.
If Han were to suffer huge casualties and another state wished to take advantage you could move your army and stop them then.
Also if Wei were to reach and support Han wouldn't that just make Qin retreat and maintain their strength?
It's better for you to let them battle it out and then steal territory from an even weaker Qin.
Zhao has already lost armies in the 100's of thousands in the past couple of years so makes sense that they would try to sit this one out and try to rebuild strength and enjoy their victory while Wei waits and sees which place they should attack depending on the situation and how the battle unfolds.
If Han were to suffer huge casualties and another state wished to take advantage you could move your army and stop them then.
Also if Wei were to reach and support Han wouldn't that just make Qin retreat and maintain their strength?
It's better for you to let them battle it out and then steal territory from an even weaker Qin.
Mou Ten's forces have to take to the field to stop Zhao reinforcements from making it to Yellow River. Ba Nan Ji and Shun Sui Ju don't need a 100K army to get past the Gaku Ka.
Likewise, there is no need for a 100K army at Rakushi. Go Hou Mei is unconcerned about retaking Rakushi, be it now or later, likely because he's good at siege warfare. If he does bypass it without taking it, the Gyoku Hou might chase after them, which would work just as well in his favour.
Ri Boku has explicitely stated - many times - the Qin are the greatest threat to Zhao. He has also spoken multiple times on the importance of destroying their ambitions for unification.
If they went and ensured the Qin lost another 100K army in Han, they would be finished.
He's ALREADY planning on engaging, it makes no sense to wait when having overwhelming numbers will only help preserves lives in the long run.
They don't have standing plans for attacking the Qin in Han if they were confident in a Han victory, never mind a crushing victory in which Han preserves most its strength.
It would be a win-win regardless.
If they go and manage to catch the Qin while they're engaged, it's a massacre.
If the Qin retreat, they'll suffer another failure, another hit to morale, loss of investment in the campaign so far, and they'll have Han in their debt.
There is no downside to going as soon as possible for anyone other than maybe Wei who are after some more Han territory - which they could negotiate as a condition of their support considering Han a) is in a fight for its life, and b) is used to giving up territory to fight another day.
Likewise, there is no need for a 100K army at Rakushi. Go Hou Mei is unconcerned about retaking Rakushi, be it now or later, likely because he's good at siege warfare. If he does bypass it without taking it, the Gyoku Hou might chase after them, which would work just as well in his favour.
Ri Boku has explicitely stated - many times - the Qin are the greatest threat to Zhao. He has also spoken multiple times on the importance of destroying their ambitions for unification.
If they went and ensured the Qin lost another 100K army in Han, they would be finished.
He's ALREADY planning on engaging, it makes no sense to wait when having overwhelming numbers will only help preserves lives in the long run.
They don't have standing plans for attacking the Qin in Han if they were confident in a Han victory, never mind a crushing victory in which Han preserves most its strength.
It would be a win-win regardless.
If they go and manage to catch the Qin while they're engaged, it's a massacre.
If the Qin retreat, they'll suffer another failure, another hit to morale, loss of investment in the campaign so far, and they'll have Han in their debt.
There is no downside to going as soon as possible for anyone other than maybe Wei who are after some more Han territory - which they could negotiate as a condition of their support considering Han a) is in a fight for its life, and b) is used to giving up territory to fight another day.
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My prediction will be that this war will result in an overwhelming victory for Qin. Han and the other states are making a big deal of Han's strength when their #1 general Rakuakan has never participated in a major war and the last time Han did anything was during the coalition war.
Unless Hara introduces flashbacks of a war Han took part in off-screen in the past, their soldiers have been essentially doing nothing for the last 11 years so I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal of their strength.
Plus, if the goal is to minimize casualties not only to take on Zhao after but also deal with Wei and Zhao interfering in this war, then Tou needs to finish this quickly.
Looking forward to it though, the last 300+ chapters have been nothing but Qin vs Zhao so this is really refreshing.
Unless Hara introduces flashbacks of a war Han took part in off-screen in the past, their soldiers have been essentially doing nothing for the last 11 years so I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal of their strength.
Plus, if the goal is to minimize casualties not only to take on Zhao after but also deal with Wei and Zhao interfering in this war, then Tou needs to finish this quickly.
Looking forward to it though, the last 300+ chapters have been nothing but Qin vs Zhao so this is really refreshing.
What I’m having a hard time predicting is whether Qin will achieve its goal of minimising the bloodshed on both sides.
The Han surrendering is the only way to achieve victory in this context, and Tou must have some kind of plan to secure their surrender, but what?
The battle is already beginning so we are likely getting a flashback to reveal this plan. At least I hope.
Simply eliminating all the enemy generals seems too risky. Their retainers will want vengeance, not an end to hostilities.
In my mind the way this plays out involves Tou relying on Shin to utterly overwhelm Haku’Ou Koku early, possibly even with specific instructions to kill him and him alone through a show overwhelming might.
If the HSU, which they underestimate due to the lack of experienced soldiers, can secure an overwhelming victory early, Tou may be able to checkmate Raku’A Kan and reason with him to surrender before a massacre follows.
Princess Nei may also play a role in this. Perhaps we get a flashback to her revealing Tou’s message, and perhaps that message was for her to deliver to Raku’A Kan, to tell him of Tou’s intentions once he secures a checkmate on the field.
I dunno.
The Han surrendering is the only way to achieve victory in this context, and Tou must have some kind of plan to secure their surrender, but what?
The battle is already beginning so we are likely getting a flashback to reveal this plan. At least I hope.
Simply eliminating all the enemy generals seems too risky. Their retainers will want vengeance, not an end to hostilities.
In my mind the way this plays out involves Tou relying on Shin to utterly overwhelm Haku’Ou Koku early, possibly even with specific instructions to kill him and him alone through a show overwhelming might.
If the HSU, which they underestimate due to the lack of experienced soldiers, can secure an overwhelming victory early, Tou may be able to checkmate Raku’A Kan and reason with him to surrender before a massacre follows.
Princess Nei may also play a role in this. Perhaps we get a flashback to her revealing Tou’s message, and perhaps that message was for her to deliver to Raku’A Kan, to tell him of Tou’s intentions once he secures a checkmate on the field.
I dunno.
I agree with you regarding Hakuo Koku. We know his army is the second strongest in all of Han, and by the admission of Rakuakan and the state officials, he is quite capable in open battles. If Shin was to just decimate the entire army and kill him in one-go, it would destroy the morale of the Han army.
I think that's what's going to happen.
I think that's what's going to happen.
Raku'A Kan could end up a general of Qin, but I'd find it more interesting if he defected to any of the neighbouring states. Qi or Wei would by my preference.
As for Haku'Ou Koku - I don't know why people think this guy is recruitment material for the HSU. For one, he's the Second General of Han, so probably a Great General. Secondly, he's offense-first general that was pissed about abandoning Nanyou in the first place. Lastly, the Han are in a fight for their very survival - does Haku'Ou really look like the type the bend to knee?
Most likely Monday.
If we're lucky, later today or tomorrow.
As for Haku'Ou Koku - I don't know why people think this guy is recruitment material for the HSU. For one, he's the Second General of Han, so probably a Great General. Secondly, he's offense-first general that was pissed about abandoning Nanyou in the first place. Lastly, the Han are in a fight for their very survival - does Haku'Ou really look like the type the bend to knee?
Most likely Monday.
If we're lucky, later today or tomorrow.