Good question. I'd say when the foetus start to get the necessary receptor to feel pain. But in absolute I would say at birth. But this is my vision and other have their own. There is no definitive answer to that.
Indeed. Some people repent but this happens because the right material conditions are met, not because the person as an epiphany out of nowhere.
This is what I would called a forced change.
It basically the same as pointing a gun at someone to make them take sh*t about their gods.
Some people will often change their whole viewpoint because of the threat of imminent death. It's just survival, now, will this be genuine ? unlikely. Will it be ethical ? Not at all.
It's a highly negative process and thus, this would be a double negative also. Change must happen out of empathy, not out of fear. Plus, they still die, which means that a potential force for good was eradicated, which is a double negative also.
In fact, it's EVEN WORSE to think that the treat of death could make people change because this would mean that we are executing people who changed and became beneficial for society. This is plainly atrocious.
The entire concept of death penalty and overall of punishment is nonsensical.
That would be the very end of the process.
What you said is like saying that you will make a wedding cake by adding a cherry on a topping. I hope that you understand how ridiculous it sounds lol.
No. To change society, we would need to topple ALL systems of oppressions and this is HEAVY WORK. It's very easy in theory, but it's a LOT of work.
Not in a better system where punishment is not necessary, no.
Start to read what i'm telling you. If you keep focusing on your own words, we will not make any progress.
I mean, you could say that saying that the earth is a sphere is a highly dogmatic quote, it wouldn't sound more ridicilous that what you just said here.
Reality is clear on the subject. Free will, as we usually talk about it (in the sence that we make conscious choice because of our own will, is an illusion.
You can either ride with it, or start to understand why I'm saying that. There is a lot of ressources to get to that point.
Life, yes. (but even then I was not really convinced. In reality I repeated what biologist said. And biologist and kinda weird with the life thing).
If I was saying what I really believe, I'd say life never begins. And Ithink scientific are a bit shy on the question.
I bet I just lost you there.
Ok. Here is a short sentence:
Learn about materialism, capitals and the reason why we (leftist and marxists) say that our choices are conditionned by the material condition of our existence.
Know that I'm talking in absolute term here (remember what I said above):
What I'm telling you here is what happens in reality. I know it's hard to understand when you are born with the patriarcal spoon in the mouth, but sadly, we are the product of the material conditions of our existence.
Those are the cold facts. If I were to talk to you to sooth your affect, I would tell you that yes, rapist can make the right choices. But in reality, this is not what happens.
Choice is an illusion, for good actions as well as for the bad ones.
To understand the actions of a rapist, you need to understand what creates a rapist to begin with. If you ignore that, you will simply put an infinity of people in jail without ever understanding the problem. You will stay ignorant and will deliver an unethical justice.
You can do that if you want, that's not what I seek.
A good system understands the ENTIRE spectrum of the material conditions that create a choice, or at least, the most important ones. (there are millions of parameters within a choice.)
I never said that killing can't be necessary. it can be a necessity in some cases. I took the case of Hitler as an example.
In fact you are doing a fallacy here since I literally took the example of Trump earlier to explain that I would welcome the guy if he proved a form of change.
And far rightist are ALSO the victims of the conditions of the the material conditions of existence. In fact, in their case, it's tragic because their ideology is so strong they they are forced by the system to justify their own oppression when we on the left know that it is a problem.
That's not how reality works mate. There is a reason why 50 people, all who are not specially mentally ill people, that raped Gisèle Pelicot.
What you are doing here, is trying to separate people into those who are really evil and those who are humans.
In reality, we are ALL capable of doing those acts. As I said, there are no evil people, just evil acts. ALL humans under specific material conditions are capable of the WORST and capable of the BEST.
You need to think outside of the Evil / Human box and start looking at reality how it really is. Because spoiler, there is a reason why there are war crimes being done in Palestine right now by very normal people who are simply brainwashed by a fascist ideology.
The extention of the concept of free will is debated, not the existence of what we usually call free will.
Some people are starting to expend free will outside of consciousness.
But the reality of freewill is that, what we usually talk about (the action of making conscious choice because of our will) is an illusion. And trust me, I dedicated the last 5 years to understand this topic. So when I tell you that it's an illusion, I'm not joking.
No I'm being factual.
You are simply not understanding that we are not talking about the same thing.
Fair.
It not "supposedly about death sentence". I shared a source about the carceral problem, not death sentences, it just happens that there is a debunking of the notion that death sentence are not a deterrant.
And yes, it does support my claim. Sorry bra.
Well yes.
Pretty much yeah (even if it's a much more complicated than that). It seems like you are starting to understand the point.
Next step is to understand why it's reality and why mocking this argumentation is actually not the genius move you think it is.
Indeed. Some people repent but this happens because the right material conditions are met, not because the person as an epiphany out of nowhere.
This is what I would called a forced change.
It basically the same as pointing a gun at someone to make them take sh*t about their gods.
Some people will often change their whole viewpoint because of the threat of imminent death. It's just survival, now, will this be genuine ? unlikely. Will it be ethical ? Not at all.
It's a highly negative process and thus, this would be a double negative also. Change must happen out of empathy, not out of fear. Plus, they still die, which means that a potential force for good was eradicated, which is a double negative also.
In fact, it's EVEN WORSE to think that the treat of death could make people change because this would mean that we are executing people who changed and became beneficial for society. This is plainly atrocious.
The entire concept of death penalty and overall of punishment is nonsensical.
That would be the very end of the process.
What you said is like saying that you will make a wedding cake by adding a cherry on a topping. I hope that you understand how ridiculous it sounds lol.
No. To change society, we would need to topple ALL systems of oppressions and this is HEAVY WORK. It's very easy in theory, but it's a LOT of work.
Not in a better system where punishment is not necessary, no.
Start to read what i'm telling you. If you keep focusing on your own words, we will not make any progress.
I mean, you could say that saying that the earth is a sphere is a highly dogmatic quote, it wouldn't sound more ridicilous that what you just said here.
Reality is clear on the subject. Free will, as we usually talk about it (in the sence that we make conscious choice because of our own will, is an illusion.
You can either ride with it, or start to understand why I'm saying that. There is a lot of ressources to get to that point.
Life, yes. (but even then I was not really convinced. In reality I repeated what biologist said. And biologist and kinda weird with the life thing).
If I was saying what I really believe, I'd say life never begins. And Ithink scientific are a bit shy on the question.
I bet I just lost you there.
Ok. Here is a short sentence:
Learn about materialism, capitals and the reason why we (leftist and marxists) say that our choices are conditionned by the material condition of our existence.
Know that I'm talking in absolute term here (remember what I said above):
What I'm telling you here is what happens in reality. I know it's hard to understand when you are born with the patriarcal spoon in the mouth, but sadly, we are the product of the material conditions of our existence.
Those are the cold facts. If I were to talk to you to sooth your affect, I would tell you that yes, rapist can make the right choices. But in reality, this is not what happens.
Choice is an illusion, for good actions as well as for the bad ones.
To understand the actions of a rapist, you need to understand what creates a rapist to begin with. If you ignore that, you will simply put an infinity of people in jail without ever understanding the problem. You will stay ignorant and will deliver an unethical justice.
You can do that if you want, that's not what I seek.
A good system understands the ENTIRE spectrum of the material conditions that create a choice, or at least, the most important ones. (there are millions of parameters within a choice.)
I never said that killing can't be necessary. it can be a necessity in some cases. I took the case of Hitler as an example.
In fact you are doing a fallacy here since I literally took the example of Trump earlier to explain that I would welcome the guy if he proved a form of change.
And far rightist are ALSO the victims of the conditions of the the material conditions of existence. In fact, in their case, it's tragic because their ideology is so strong they they are forced by the system to justify their own oppression when we on the left know that it is a problem.
That's not how reality works mate. There is a reason why 50 people, all who are not specially mentally ill people, that raped Gisèle Pelicot.
What you are doing here, is trying to separate people into those who are really evil and those who are humans.
In reality, we are ALL capable of doing those acts. As I said, there are no evil people, just evil acts. ALL humans under specific material conditions are capable of the WORST and capable of the BEST.
You need to think outside of the Evil / Human box and start looking at reality how it really is. Because spoiler, there is a reason why there are war crimes being done in Palestine right now by very normal people who are simply brainwashed by a fascist ideology.
The extention of the concept of free will is debated, not the existence of what we usually call free will.
Some people are starting to expend free will outside of consciousness.
But the reality of freewill is that, what we usually talk about (the action of making conscious choice because of our will) is an illusion. And trust me, I dedicated the last 5 years to understand this topic. So when I tell you that it's an illusion, I'm not joking.
No I'm being factual.
You are simply not understanding that we are not talking about the same thing.
Fair.
It not "supposedly about death sentence". I shared a source about the carceral problem, not death sentences, it just happens that there is a debunking of the notion that death sentence are not a deterrant.
And yes, it does support my claim. Sorry bra.
Well yes.
Pretty much yeah (even if it's a much more complicated than that). It seems like you are starting to understand the point.
Next step is to understand why it's reality and why mocking this argumentation is actually not the genius move you think it is.
You are sick ngl
I am done with your delusions and giving you free attention. Not worth it.
oh boy
