Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

No they aren't in Gaza since 2005 that's a fact not an opinion

They are. By soldier presence in both Gaza, and the West Bank and are controlling the entry point of Gazan. Which is exactly what a occupying force does.

Again. Factual. This is not me saying it, but the U.N and other international commitee and country.

There is nothing that you will say that will change that.

By 22 September 2005, Israel withdraw from the entire Gaza Strip to the 1967 Green Line and the eviction of the four settlements in Samaria, was completed.

This was unilateral withdrawal from entire Gaza by Israel.

This is Israeli PM speech in UN after the withdrawal from Gaza

"The end of Israeli control over and responsibility for the Gaza Strip allows the Palestinians, if they so wish, to develop their economy and build a peace-seeking society, which is developed, free, law-abiding, and transparent and which adheres to democratic principles"

Palestinians Authority even conducted elections.

- This doesn't change the state of occupation and oppression of Palestinian and gazan by Israel. Which is - again - a factual data.
- This doesn't change the controls points, and the appartheid politics against Palestinians
- This doesn't change the rapes, the murders, and the tortures of random palestinians.
- This doesn't change the forced enprisonment of Palestinians and their rape or torture.

Are you trying to tell me that those things do not exist in front of my eye right now ?

You literally admitted to being an ignorant on this topic so why are you talking ? you clearly know nothing by your idiotic post

You are in no place to talk about knowledge or understanding on the subject. You have none.

Don't try me. I'm not fully gone yet. I can have one last ride in front of genocide justifiers.

 

[Reborn]

They are. By soldier presence in both Gaza, and the West Bank and are controlling the entry point of Gazan. Which is exactly what a occupying force does.

Again. Factual. This is not me saying it, but the U.N and other international commitee and country.

There is nothing that you will say that will change that.


- This doesn't change the state of occupation and oppression of Palestinian and gazan by Israel. Which is - again - a factual data.
- This doesn't change the controls points, and the appartheid politics against Palestinians
- This doesn't change the rapes, the murders, and the tortures of random palestinians.
- This doesn't change the forced enprisonment of Palestinians and their rape or torture.

Are you trying to tell me that those things do not exist in front of my eye right now ?



You are in no place to talk about knowledge or understanding on the subject. You have none.

Don't try me. I'm not fully gone yet. I can have one last ride in front of genocide justifiers.

Did you even understand the post?

Israel did withdraw completely including settlements from Gaza so that Palestinians can have free society.


It was Hamas once again that used Gaza to fire rockets and kill civilians which led Israel to impose blockade

Hamas is against peace process. They hindered peace process in 90s. They used Gaza to attack Israel in 2007 even when Israel withdraw from Gaza. The kept on escalating the conflicts since then.

And, then committed October 7th attack on civilians.


Hamas is the instigator. Hamas is the terrorist group. Calling them a resistance movement is injustice to actual resistant movement which happened in the past

 

[Soyz]

They are. By soldier presence in both Gaza, and the West Bank and are controlling the entry point of Gazan. Which is exactly what a occupying force does.

Again. Factual. This is not me saying it, but the U.N and other international commitee and country.

There is nothing that you will say that will change that.


- This doesn't change the state of occupation and oppression of Palestinian and gazan by Israel. Which is - again - a factual data.
- This doesn't change the controls points, and the appartheid politics against Palestinians
- This doesn't change the rapes, the murders, and the tortures of random palestinians.
- This doesn't change the forced enprisonment of Palestinians and their rape or torture.

Are you trying to tell me that those things do not exist in front of my eye right now ?



You are in no place to talk about knowledge or understanding on the subject. You have none.

Don't try me. I'm not fully gone yet. I can have one last ride in front of genocide justifiers.

Lmao ur so wrong 🤣, there was no soldier presence in Gaza after 2005 and if you talk about entry points it's called fucking borders, when your population consists of people who willing to go bomb themselves in busses or weddings you build a wall/ fence around to keep them away.

You couldn't even point to Gaza on a map before oct7 and you talk to me about having no knowledge

 

[Rej]

Lol, me calling out and insulting Solis: gets immediately deleted after a few seconds.

Soyz insults: letting them slide for hours or days.

Fuck the mods fr. Lol

 

[Logiko]

Did you even understand the post?

Israel did withdraw completely including settlements from Gaza so that Palestinians can have free society.

It seems our friend Reborn doesn't know how to read.

I was sure to give him clear and factual data. But it's seems he does not understand what International laws or internationals statement means.

I think our friend here does not understand that this is not a matter of debate and does not understand what oppression for multiple decades means or feels like.

It's weird.. I was sure our friend Reborn here had a functionning brain and the minimum education required to understand basic geopolitical terms like "colonizations" or "Appartheid" "resistance" or even "Systemic oppressions".

Maybe our friend here needs a little reminded of the situation:

Lmao ur so retarded 🤣

Maybe.

But contrary to you, I'm not trying to justify colonization or a genocide.

there was no soldier presence in Gaza after 2005 u fucking moron

I guess Palestinians in Gaza murdered or raped themselves, in fact maybe Palestinian abducted themselves ontheir own to end up in Israel's prisons.

In fact.. I guess there are no soldiers in Gaza at the moment oneshoting children with snipers.. Is that what you are saying ?

 

[Zenos7]

You are just a troll, who clearly don't know the difference between resistance and terrorism. resistance is against an occupying force ( Israel left Gaza in 2005 so no occupation there ) directed to MILITERY ASSESTS or personal, terrorism like you apes are justifying is the use or violence against a civilians population for a political/religious reason, which is textbook definition what ur idols hamas are doing from day 1

these two arent mutually exclusive. hamas is still a restistance movement, just one that commits terrorist acts.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:13 PM

Do you consider the french resistance during the Nazi occupation were terrorists ?

did they target civilians?

 

[Logiko]

did they target civilians?

In some example yes.

Resistance is not a game where we play moral soldiers. It's messy, it's good and it's bad. Sometimes it does legitimate things and sometimes people lose their humanity.

And do you want to know what the worst thing is ?

Sometime we don't know if the actions that created a window for peace, were the good... or the evil ones.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Saying that Israel "withdrew " from Gaza is idiotic since they control all their borders.

It's an open sky prison and always has been.

 

[Roo]

In some example yes.

Resistance is not a game where we play moral soldiers. It's messy, it's good and it's bad. Sometimes it does legitimate things and sometimes people lose their humanity.

And do you want to know what the worst thing is ?

Sometime we don't know if the actions that created a window for peace, were the good... or the evil ones.

I think we can confidently say targeting civilians bad no matter what the results are

I mean, I think we all agree if the current gaza situation ended with a fruitful peace between both parties the murder of 40k palestinians would not be seen as "good" or even just

 

[Soyz]

these two arent mutually exclusive. hamas is still a restistance movement, just one that commits terrorist acts.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:13 PM

did they target civilians?

Wtf does that even mean ? how can you call yourself a resistance movement while raping kidnapping and killing civilians ? you know there is a reason they are 2 different words with 2 different meanings right ?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:00 PM

Saying that Israel "withdrew " from Gaza is idiotic since they control all their borders.

It's an open sky prison and always has been.

Egypt also control their border I don't see people say anything about that, and they literally have no other border so wtf are u on about

 

[Logiko]

I think we can confidently say targeting civilians bad no matter what the results are

I would agree. But what happens when a bad action creates the windows for peace ? How long must a people live in the worst of oppressions for the worst option to become the only one possible ?

And if you were to ask those people the most important question of all ..

Sometimes, a simple and cold observations is scarier than all moral judgments.

 

[Roo]

I would agree. But what happens when a bad action creates the windows for peace ? How long must a people live in the worst of oppressions for the worst option to become the only one possible ?

Killing civilians is a surefire way to get people against your cause because nobody wants to support that. Just look the ANC in South Africa. Nelson Mandela at first was ambivalent towards, but then realize how ineffective it was and tried his hardest to move away from it

So not only is morally wrong, it's ineffective as well

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Wtf does that even mean ? how can you call yourself a resistance movement while raping kidnapping and killing civilians ? you know there is a reason they are 2 different words with 2 different meanings right ?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:00 PM

Egypt also control their border I don't see people say anything about that, and they literally have no other border so wtf are u on about

I am on about the fact that Rafah's border is with Egypt but controlled by Israel as well.

The Rafah Border Crossing (Arabic: معبر رفح, romanized: Ma`bar Rafaḥ) or Rafah Crossing Point is the sole crossing point between Egypt and Palestine's Gaza Strip. It is located on the Egypt–Palestine border. Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval.

You shouldn't talk so superficially and with such certainty of things you do not know and do not understand.

Israel control what and who gets into Palestine, I.e. Palestine is under Israel control, has always been.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:11 PM

Killing civilians is a surefire way to get people against your cause because nobody wants to support that. Just look the ANC in South Africa. Nelson Mandela at first was ambivalent towards, but then realize how ineffective it was and tried his hardest to move away from it

So not only is morally wrong, it's ineffective as well

I share this view, but it's absurd to not expect radicalisation in a population oppressed for 60 years.
Hamas is also a useful idiot that helps demonising the Palestinian cause, that's why Israel itself helped its success:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

 

[Roo]

I share this view, but it's absurd to not expect radicalisation in a population oppressed for 60 years.
Hamas is also a useful idiot that helps demonising the Palestinian cause, that's why Israel itself helped its success:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

I am not saying its impossible nor improbable, it's just not good or effective.

The problem with Logiko is that his world view demands extreme leniency towards the oppressed, and while it's good to analyze the difference in power/material conditions I don't think it gives the oppressed a carte blanche to do whatever they want

 

[Soyz]

I am on about the fact that Rafah's border is with Egypt but controlled by Israel as well.

The Rafah Border Crossing (Arabic: معبر رفح, romanized: Ma`bar Rafaḥ) or Rafah Crossing Point is the sole crossing point between Egypt and Palestine's Gaza Strip. It is located on the Egypt–Palestine border. Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval.

You shouldn't talk so superficially and with such certainty of things you do not know and do not understand.

Israel control what and who gets into Palestine, I.e. Palestine is under Israel control, has always been.

On what you posted it clearly says it, it's Egypt border, they control it, the Israel approvel doesn't happen in practice as they have imported a lot of weapons from, so no you are wrong, since oct7 they do control it but beforehand it was Egypt border and they still didn't let gazans to pass through, I wonder why.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I am not saying its impossible nor improbable, it's just not good or effective.

The problem with Logiko is that his world view demands extreme leniency towards the oppressed, and while it's good to analyze the difference in power/material conditions I don't think it gives the oppressed a carte blanche to do whatever they want

Oh we can agree that it's ineffective and counter productive of course, terrorism like the attack on October or the genocide in Palestine are ontological the same thing, it's just that there is an incredible imbalance of power

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:16 PM

On what you posted it clearly says it, it's Egypt border, they control it, the Israel approvel doesn't happen in practice as they have imported a lot of weapons from, so no you are wrong, since oct7 they do control it but beforehand it was Egypt border and they still didn't let gazans to pass through, I wonder why.

Are you brain damaged?

 

[Reborn]

I am not saying its impossible nor improbable, it's just not good or effective.

The problem with Logiko is that his world view demands extreme leniency towards the oppressed, and while it's good to analyze the difference in power/material conditions I don't think it gives the oppressed a carte blanche to do whatever they want

True

As I said earlier, Palestinians have right to statehood. They have rights to freedom and liberty.

Israel cannot continue to hold all lands under it at the cost of Palestinian rights. Israel cannot continue to hold all chips in its hand.

But what Hamas has been doing is just counter productive. Whenever there was peace talks, it was Hamas who tried to derail it.

Hamas actions affect Palestinians cause more than it affects Israel. The terrorists attacks legitimatize Israel action to defend itself.

Hamas terrorist attacks is bringing down Palestinians.

Because let's be real

A nation that has top notch military and intelligence, is backed by world big economies and military power like US, European giants, India in terms of aid during the ongoing war - will not back down against a terror group or some toothless international organizations.

 

[Soyz]

Oh we can agree that it's ineffective and counter productive of course, terrorism like the attack on October or the genocide in Palestine are ontological the same thing, it's just that there is an incredible imbalance of power

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:16 PM

Are you brain damaged?

Are you ? what's so hard to understand? Israel didn't control things that came through in the past only since oct7 , Egypt control the border and always have, "In December 2009, Egypt started the building of a border barrier along the Gaza border, consisting of a steel wall that would be 10–11 km (6–7 miles) long and extend 18 m (60 feet) below the surface."

"Only passage of persons takes place through the Rafah Border Crossing; as such, the Egypt–Gaza border is only open to the passage of people, not of goods. All cargo traffic must go through Israel, usually through the Israeli-controlled Kerem Shalom border crossing on the Gaza–Israel barrier."

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

True

As I said earlier, Palestinians have right to statehood. They have rights to freedom and liberty.

Israel cannot continue to hold all lands under it at the cost of Palestinian rights. Israel cannon hold all chips in its hand.

But what Hamas has been doing is just counter productive. Whenever there was peace talks, it was Hamas who tried to derail it.

Hamas actions affect Palestinians cause more than it affects Israel. The terrorists attacks legitimatize Israel action to defend itself.

Hamas terrorist attacks is being in down Palestinians.

Because let's be real

A nation that has top notch military and intelligence, is backed by world big economies and military power like US, European giants, India in terms of aid during the ongoing war - will won't back down against a terror groups or some toothless internationally organizations.

Yes but it was Israel itself that financed and pushed the rise of Hamas, it's incredible that they created their own scape goat for any possible atrocity.

 

[Logiko]

Killing civilians is a surefire way to get people against your cause because nobody wants to support that. Just look the ANC in South Africa. Nelson Mandela at first was ambivalent towards, but then realize how ineffective it was and tried his hardest to move away from it

Tell me...

Do you feel like the world started to hate the ideas of the resistance against Israel since 2023 ?

Before 2023, did you often see people in news talk about colonization, apartheid, oppressions ?

Did you see worldwide demonstrations for Palestine and against the Israelian occupation before ?

Did you ever see this on Fox News ?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1876405329094959117