Controversial General Political Discussion

[Reborn]

Israel - Palestine war will never end until one of the party gets wiped out (pessimistic view but it's more closer to reality)

Cease fire - it's more like a break. Another big trigger in future and war will break out.

Peace deal - usually doesn't last long. Non state actors often act as disruptive force to derail it.

Two state solution - is it really a solution? In terms of giving both parties their own state..yes. But will it end war between the two? Nope

Decades of hostility will simply take shape into two hostile neighbouring states like Indo -pakistan or N.Korea/S.Korea. And, clashes would keep on happening even if no war

 

[Zenos7]

As an arab myself, I agree.
Agree that this war is wrong and shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
However, they should never apply for Israeli citizenship, that’s Basically handing israel the keys to their land, a two state country is the best choice for all.

All of this shit might not have happened if the palestinian side didnt reject the initial UN partition plan.

 

[Logiko]

Israel - Palestine war will never end until one of the party gets wiped out (pessimistic view but it's more closer to reality)

Cease fire - it's more like a break. Another big trigger in future and war will break out.

Peace deal - usually doesn't last long. Non state actors often act as disruptive force to derail it.

Two state solution - is it really a solution? In terms of giving both parties their own state..yes. But will it end war between the two? Nope

Decades of hostility will simply take shape into two hostile neighbouring states like Indo -pakistan or N.Korea/S.Korea. And, clashes would keep on happening even if no war

The real solution is a ONE state solution.

A state heavily reglemented under international laws.

Something new, neither Palestine nor Israel. But for that, Hatred needs to go away first.

 

[Zenos7]

Nope, I will just be called a terrorist as well

Only by retards that generalize the entirety of muslims due to the actions of a few.

Post automatically merged: Jan 13, 2025

Well their capital's power is not based on a lie to justify colonialism, it's based on the people who work for them

?

Post automatically merged: Jan 13, 2025

But for that, Hatred needs to go away first.

So it wont happen in our lifetime

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I am not a supporter of Hamas but frankly speaking - what you said just now is wrong on so many levels

do you see any benefits to the war?

At some point you need to cut your losses. Hamas fails to do this because they glorify the deaths of their own people.

 

[Apollo]

I'm a bit surprised Palestine-Israel is still an active discussion here.

News seems to be moving around about a possible ceasefire in Gaza between Hamas and Israel after Trump and his team put pressure on the Israeli government.

IF that comes to pass, my conclusion about the current Democrat administration will be solidified. The US President always had the power to end the war by putting pressure on the Israeli government and actively chose not to do it. Somehow, Trump will look better for Palestinians than Biden.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

As an arab myself, I agree.
Agree that this war is wrong and shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
However, they should never apply for Israeli citizenship, that’s Basically handing israel the keys to their land, a two state country is the best choice for all.

I would say that accepting Israeli citizenship would be a step up from their current status as a practically stateless people.

obviously accepting a Jewish state under a population that is at best 50% Jewish isn’t fair. But it could be a necessary stepping stone towards creating a binational and secular state.

Like black Americans didn’t go from slaves to (more or less) equal members of American society overnight

Post automatically merged: Jan 13, 2025

it. Somehow, Trump will look better for Palestinians than Biden.

I doubt it

christian Zionists are a big part of Trump’s base

I think those guys tend to be more extreme than the liberal Zionist democrats

 

[Roo]

I'm a bit surprised Palestine-Israel is still an active discussion here.

News seems to be moving around about a possible ceasefire in Gaza between Hamas and Israel after Trump and his team put pressure on the Israeli government.

IF that comes to pass, my conclusion about the current Democrat administration will be solidified. The US President always had the power to end the war by putting pressure on the Israeli government and actively chose not to do it. Somehow, Trump will look better for Palestinians than Biden.

With Trumps track record whatever ceasefire comes up it will be extremely beneficial to Israel. I don’t doubt Israel would accept a ceasefire if for example it allows them to create a buffer zone in Gaza, essentially colonizing a part of it

Post automatically merged: Jan 13, 2025

All of this shit might not have happened if the palestinian side didnt reject the initial UN partition plan.

Honestly rejecting the original partition plan is understandable, and justifiable. I think the 67 deal was the big head scratcher. At that point you got fucked twice by Israel with no peace in sight, you might as well take whatever you can get and hope for more in the future

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

@AL sama @NAMELESS @Uncle Van @Brush D. Teeth would you take someone with a political science phd more seriously?

Less seriously.

 

[Ali v2]

All of this shit might not have happened if the palestinian side didnt reject the initial UN partition plan.

Not necessarily the initial plan but Again, I agree, but I can’t give Palestinians any guarantees that any UN council would be fair towards them when israeli lobbies run deep in almost every country, israelis speak money and it’s a very strong language in our day and time.

The real solution is a ONE state solution.

A state heavily reglemented under international laws.

Something new, neither Palestine nor Israel. But for that, Hatred needs to go away first.

Look at it this way, if you and I were fighting for the past +70 years and did all kind of awful stuff to each other including mass genocides and killing of children and disabling thousands … then someone more powerful comes and tells you to yield to me in order for the fighting to stop, would you wholeheartedly believe I won’t continue (secretly) doing all kind of awful stuff to you especially when you know that the stronger person who proposed you yield has stronger ties with the other side than to you?

I would say that accepting Israeli citizenship would be a step up from their current status as a practically stateless people.

obviously accepting a Jewish state under a population that is at best 50% Jewish isn’t fair. But it could be a necessary stepping stone towards creating a binational and secular state.

Like black Americans didn’t go from slaves to (more or less) equal members of American society overnight

Post automatically merged: Jan 13, 2025

I doubt it

christian Zionists are a big part of Trump’s base

I think those guys tend to be more extreme than the liberal Zionist democrats

Problem with Israeli administration is that they blatantly show they don’t care about anyone other than themselves, the entire (Chosen nation of god) runs through them and they find it very justified to murder and displace anyone based on that self-proclaimed belief. There are many jewish people in the world who just want to live peacefully without any fear/problems with other countries/religions but theae people will never reach power because the people currently in charge have done so much to stay in charge.

 

[Roo]

The real solution is a ONE state solution.

A state heavily reglemented under international laws.

Something new, neither Palestine nor Israel. But for that, Hatred needs to go away first.

Neither Palestinians nor Israelis want a one state solution where they all live in the same land.

It’s not feasible nor likely. Establish actual borders, give Palestinians a nation and then if relations get better the countries can discuss an eventual union

 

[Zenos7]

Not necessarily the initial plan but Again, I agree, but I can’t give Palestinians any guarantees that any UN council would be fair towards them when israeli lobbies run deep in almost every country, israelis speak money and it’s a very strong language in our day and time.

the initial plan divided the area in like 40/60. thats probably as fair as they will ever get.

 

[Apollo]

Survey was released in November 2023 (not sure)

I found it online so just sharing what I saw.

Done by Arab World for Research and Develop (Internal agency supported by UN, Arab Nations, World Bank)

Summary

• 75% support the October 7 massacre
• 85.9% reject coexistence with Israel
• 71.1% are committed to the restoration of “historical Palestine” as a final resolution
• 74.7% support the creation of a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” as the only acceptable resolution of the conflict.

Support for Hamas and other such organizations

• 76% believe that Hamas plays a somewhat to very positive role
• 84% believe that Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) plays a somewhat to very positive role
• 79.8% believe that Fatah’s terror wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, plays a somewhat to very positive role
• 88.6% believe that Hamas’ armed wing, the Al-Kassam Brigades, plays a somewhat to very positive role.

Towards West

• 98.2% of Palestinians see the U.S. role as negative
• 96.7% consider the UK role as negative
• 92.6% consider the EU role as negative.
• 85.5% believe that these countries support Israel because of “hatred of Arabs
• 79.5% believe that support is the result of “hatred of Muslims and Islam”

Towards some Arab countries

• 96% disapprove of the UAE
• 95.5% disapprove of Saudi Arabia
• 84.6% disapprove of Egypt
• 75.6% disapprove of Jordan.

Approval ratings​

I found no information about the study you mention.

The infographic you mentioned was actually taken from a real survey done by AWRAD. It was based on:
"Palestinians were asked to assess the role of a list of relevant parties during the war. Findings reveal that their assessments broadly fall into four categories: "

I dont think they were gonna have a positive view of Israel in the war considering by that point:

"At the time of the poll, more than 10,000 Palestinians in Gaza and 185 in the West Bank had been killed, with 27,000 injured in Gaza and 2,500 in the West Bank. Additionally, 2,700 people were reported missing in Gaza, while 2,500 had been arrested in the West Bank. During the survey, a significant number of residents in northern Gaza had been forcibly displaced or were in the process of moving south. The UN estimates that in the period the survey was conducted more than 1.5 million people, out of a total population of 2.3 million, were displaced. The Israeli ground invasion, initiated on October 28, persisted throughout the implementation of the survey."

Here is the actual survey from AWRAD in November. Second one in the list. The study doesn't really mention the statistics you mention.

There is also a more recent opinion poll done by them that is first in the list.

https://www.awrad.org//en/category/2144/PUBLICATIONS

From the newest opinion poll:

 

[Ali v2]

the initial plan divided the area in like 40/60. thats probably as fair as they will ever get.

Bear in mind, at that time, there used to be a unified arabian front with recognized military might like the egyptian, syrian and iraqi armies, the initial plan couldn’t have worked with such pro-Palestinian powers backing up the case against Israel

 

[Apollo]

I doubt it

christian Zionists are a big part of Trump’s base

I think those guys tend to be more extreme than the liberal Zionist democrats

The supporters ? Sure. Doesn't change that the era of Biden killed more Palestinians and destroyed Gaza more than Trump could dream of.

With Trumps track record whatever ceasefire comes up it will be extremely beneficial to Israel. I don’t doubt Israel would accept a ceasefire if for example it allows them to create a buffer zone in Gaza, essentially colonizing a part of it

I think more in line of "Israel can restart the war whenever it see fits". The current deal being discussed is ceasefire + prisoner exchange. Colonization comes later if they plan to go through with it.

 

[Logiko]

Look at it this way, if you and I were fighting for the past +70 years and did all kind of awful stuff to each other including mass genocides and killing of children and disabling thousands … then someone more powerful comes and tells you to yield to me in order for the fighting to stop, would you wholeheartedly believe I won’t continue (secretly) doing all kind of awful stuff to you especially when you know that the stronger person who proposed you yield has stronger ties with the other side than to you?

It’s not feasible nor likely. Establish actual borders, give Palestinians a nation and then if relations get better the countries can discuss an eventual union

Never underestimate the humanity we are capable of in time of crisis.

It will not be easy, but a one state solution is possible. It's the only way to REALLY resolve the conflict.

 

[AL sama]

Only by retards that generalize the entirety of muslims due to the actions of a few.

average people aren't very reasonable with such things tbh

 

[Ali v2]

Never underestimate the humanity we are capable of in time of crisis.

It will not be easy, but a one state solution is possible. It's the only way to REALLY resolve the conflict.

Both sides don’t want it, when you have a single side not wanting something, it’s reasonable to think that something is not particularly in that side’s best interest, but when both sides agree that a one state solution is off the table, you got to think there is some serious bad blood and deep cultural/fundamental differences between the two

 

[Roo]

I think more in line of "Israel can restart the war whenever it see fits". The current deal being discussed is ceasefire + prisoner exchange. Colonization comes later if they plan to go through with it.

You’re putting too much pragmatism on an already extremely favorable towards Israel cabinet.

this is trumps Israeli minister btw

Trump has an ideological bent towards Israel. I don’t think anything aside from a total Israeli victory would pass under him

 

[Zenos7]

Bear in mind, at that time, there used to be a unified arabian front with recognized military might like the egyptian, syrian and iraqi armies, the initial plan couldn’t have worked with such pro-Palestinian powers backing up the case against Israel

sad for palestinians now.