Controversial General Political Discussion

[Worst]

What Van is conveniently invisibilizing tho, is that it is NOT the first time that we have been talking about Zemmi's daughter. Actually, Zemmi used her example multiple time in this thread as a way to assert just how good she was raising her kids. Especially when she proudly explained how she was agreeing with conservatist about woke in school and how she was proud to took away her kid from those school.

I tried to explain to her many time how electing Trump would be damaging for them and her daughter especially.

In this example Zemmi was defending Trump - who she voted for - and Musk after the election of november. I therefore followed her example and expressed how disspointed I was and her being proud of electing two fascists in power who will destroy her daughters's right and thus "congratulated her" on her being able to face her daughter in front of this situation, something I would not be able to do if I helped electing a FASCIST.

While this was a low blow (which I apolologized for because I still have empathy, even for my political ennemies) this was a perfectly legitimate remark. NO ONE with a daughter should be able to face their child without shame after voting for Trump. His racist and sexist vision will destroy women's right. And any antifascist should be angry at the moment at those who enable this guy.

And yes. Everyone who defend Trump or Musk loses my respect.

That's not a ' remark ' imho that's straight up insulting, imagine if you go to someone, tell them how good you think you're raising your kids etc etc, then you tell them that you voted for X and they tell you you should not only be ashamed of your vote but ALSO to be ashamed of facing your kids you're so proudly rising RIGHT AFTER the guy you voted for won the elections ( with solid margins ) against the current ruling government which means your opinions got massively validated since majority of the voting population voted like you did....

Also i live in italy and i know some people that when they talk about politics they basically do it in this pose :

Spoiler

( yes they're actually Fascist btw, like the real thing )

And even them don't think Trump is even remotely close to be an actual fascist, sure they like his DEI stuff shut down, the ' common sense revolution ' and the ' drill baby drill ' agends but they think so far it's light work....

 

[Logiko]

You still double down, disgusting and scummy is too good a description for you.

Coming from you, I consider this a compliment.

That's not a ' remark ' imho that's straight up insulting, imagine if you go to someone, tell them how good you think you're raising your kids etc etc, then you tell them that you voted for X and they tell you you should not only be ashamed of your vote but ALSO to be ashamed of facing your kids you're so proudly rising RIGHT AFTER the guy you voted for won the elections ( with solid margins ) against the current ruling government which means your opinions got massively validated since majority of the voting population voted like you did....

Also i live in italy and i know some people that when they talk about politics they basically do it in this pose :

Do you intend for me to tolerant with those who vote for fascists ?

Yes, people who vote for them should be ashamed. And I'm being very nice and respectfull here.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Coming from you, I consider this a compliment.

Do you intend for me to tolerant with those who vote for fascists ?

Yes, people who vote for them should be ashamed. And I'm being very nice and respectfull here.

It shouldn't be a compliment. But knowing you, you sleep with sin and evil.

 

[Logiko]

It shouldn't be a compliment. But knowing you, you sleep with sin and evil.

I don't have moral lessons to get from a Trump and Musk defender :)

 

[Ravagerblade]

I don't have moral lessons to get from a Trump and Musk defender :)

You have alot that is indefensible. Your ego is one, Finalsmegma doesn't have anything on you. God's Judgement has already given you a portion. Continue on and suffer more, or repent.

 

[Logiko]

You have alot that is indefensible. Your ego is one, Finalsmegma doesn't have anything on you. God's Judgement has already given you a portion. Continue on and suffer more, or repent.

Good night

 

[Ravagerblade]

Good night

You should leave.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

You see, contrary to I'm not trying to appear as all knowing, I'm not and you are right, there is a lot of things that I didn't read and others that I will never read.

This is why rather than trying to myself sort the informations I choose to trust people based on very specific political and critical tools.

For example, I try to avoid taking as god's words social conclusions from someone who is not a sociologist or listen to fascist rethoric to try to pick the good from the awfully bad knowing full well my own biases. But hey, you do you.

I'm done talking with you. You are not ready to really listen.

Seems like, you are the one with the fascist rhetoric though.
Only listening to source you deem worth listening out of your ass while not reading other sources from people who are indeed sociologist (but you've never read them or your side don't like them so they are not) and uses sociologist method to make their theories just like your God Bourdieu.

It's not me who isn't ready to listen, since I have listened to the people you talk about. I just don't think they are gods and that I should follow them as a religious group.

There is no fascist rhetoric in Todd's work or Clouscard's work.

There is more fascist, xenophobic and sexist rhetoric in Marx work that you didn't read but would praise just because some bullshiter on your side said so on a 10 minutes video on the video you were recommended to watch thanks to the algorithm that keeps feeding your one sided view as the ultimate truth.

So yeah, you're definitely not worth listening.

 

[Logiko]

Seems like, you are the one with the fascist rhetoric though.
Only listening to source you deem worth listening out of your ass while not reading other sources from people who are indeed sociologist (but you've never read them or your side don't like them so they are not) and uses sociologist method to make their theories just like your God Bourdieu.

It's not me who isn't ready to listen, since I have listened to the people you talk about. I just don't think they are gods and that I should follow them as a religious group.

There is no fascist rhetoric in Todd's work or Clouscard's work.

There is more fascist, xenophobic and sexist rhetoric in Marx work that you didn't read but would praise just because some bullshiter on your side said so on a 10 minutes video on the video you were recommeneded to watch thanks to the algorithm that keeps feeding your one sided view as the ultimate truth.

So yeah, you're definitely not worth listening.

Again, (I really need to stop looking at those F. notifications), you are confusing listening and understanding.

As an example, you can read any story you want without ever coming close to understand them or WORST completely missunderstand them because of your own biases and reading grid. It's the same with any sources. It's good to listen, it's better to understand and it's even better to know.

This is why I don't try to act like I've seen all like you or van do. I know for a fact that I don't have a lot of culture, far from it even. But the things I know, I'm sure of them. Not because I constructed my "Own Opinion™" by searching the good in every sources like you did only trusting you own instinct and overpowered critical thinking...

But by listening to researchers and activists who are politically involved in the harsh reality of the world and therefore those who know and are confronted to the material reality of the world VS those who don't, in order to understand the material context of thinkers and therefore "trust" some while making sure to be critical of others.

This is a materialist approach.

What you do is the opposite. It's the idealistic idea that there is some truth in every rethorics, even in the most fascist ones. This is the mindset of liberals and people who are on the verge of falling into far rightism. This is the mindset of those who don't care about reality and only care about their own opinion on reality. This is the seed of the post-truth discourse and fascist rethorics.

That's why, I don't trust my reading skill in the case of science, but my sources. As I know, that I can't have all the tools to understand everything by myself. And in our case, all my sources are demonstrating how Clousard or even Todd have "reactionnary" positions. And Todd is not a sociologist, but an Historian.

As for you, the simple fact that you don't understand the concept of people risking their lives simply because they are existing, show me everything I need to know about your valuable opinion on sociology. Add the fact that you are valuing all your sources equally and it demonstrate how little you really understand politics.

Same as Van. You have a lot of confiture (in French dans le texte)...

But no flavor.

--------

On this note, + 1 ignore.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

fascist ones

What are the fascist sources you're refering to? Again you don't know the people I'm talking about nor read them.

And you don't know my political views either.

But just because I criticize your approach, you label me as a fascist sympathizer. Which is a fascist method by the way.

 

[Logiko]

What are the fascist sources you're refering to? Again you don't know the people I'm talking about nor read them.

And you don't know my political views either.

But just because I criticize your approach, you label me as a fascist sympathizer. Which is a fascist method by the way.

Nobody is labelling you as a fascist sympathizer.

I'm telling you that your method is flawed, that it WILL push you toward reactionnary sides. Not that it's already the case. I can understand the difference between someone like you and Ravager, I'm not stupid.

When we say "reactionnary" when talking about leftists ideas, we usually talk about those who are confusionnists and are borrowing far right principle in order to make a point. Usually, those people will eventually end up on the right or even the far right.

I don't have to know your political view to understand it. That's what the majority of people don't get here. I can pinpoint it with precision with the way your interact with me and don't listen to what I say (proof is, you are twisting what I'm saying to you).

You don't understand that it's not you who is criticizing my approach, it's me who is criticizing yours. Read back what I said in the previous post. I'm not saying that you are a fascist enabler or sympathizer. I'm telling your that you risk to end up like one.

Try to understand why the concept of listening to everyone and trusting only yourself to make a judgement is very dangerous when we talk about politics, then you should understand why - depiste you having a bigger culture - I'm the one who is closer to understanding the material reality of the world.

 

[Rej]

Tesla is so fucked and the funny thing is I saw this comming.

2026 = the rise of the chinese electric car industry.
Just mark my words. It's time to invest into stonks.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Are we still talking about Johnny Somali? It's seems you want to shift this lolcow topic to more darker one. Suits you,but you need to find someone other for it.

I had no idea it's still about Johnny Somali, I couldn't open that twitter post anyway. That guy is extremely dumb but let's not act like there aren't worse people in the world. Hating on some internet idiot who doesn't have real power is just the lowest hanging fruit for frustrated people to direct all their anger towards.


How does one react like this ->

The same guy who harps on and on about respecting women and allowing them to speak, but the instant a female disagrees him, belittles them and tries to dictate how they should feel? Even going as far as to tell a female that he doesn't respect her and used her daughter as a weapon to shame her? You thought you could fix that?? Lol

to a post like this?->

And American have one of the highest % of climatosceptical, it doesn't mean that they are right.

You are in denial.

But props to you to be able to face your daughter while defending Trump and Musk. I wouldn't be able to do that personnaly.

Are we all reading the same posts here or??

The amount of assumptions

You're making many of those.

 

[Logiko]

I had no idea it's still about Johnny Somali, I couldn't open that twitter post anyway. That guy is extremely dumb but let's not act like there aren't worse people in the world. Hating on some internet idiot who doesn't have real power is just the lowest hanging fruit for frustrated people to direct all their anger towards.


How does one react like this ->

to a post like this?->


Are we all reading the same posts here or??


You're making many of those.

Just like many reactionnaries and liberals, Van is expecting me to be a saint. It's their vision of real leftists. So when they saw us being disrespectful to fascist enablers, they don't understand and think we are a bunch of frauds.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Just like many reactionnaries and liberals, Van is expecting me to be a saint. It's their vision of real leftists. So when they saw us being disrespectful to fascist enablers, they don't understand and think we are a bunch of frauds.

Van doesn't expect anything from you. He's pissed at you because Zemmi is his friend of many years and you said something to her she didn't like. That's what this is all about. Not about the contents of your statement.

 

[Logiko]

Van doesn't expect anything from you. He's pissed at you because Zemmi is his friend of many years and you said something to her she didn't like. That's what this is all about. Not about the contents of your statement.

Oh I see. This is more logical. Didn't know that.

 

[AL sama]

lmao zem is my friend not van's in fact he didn't even know her few years ago

misinformation and misleading is legit here lol

 

[Uncle Van]

lmao zem is my friend not van's in fact he didn't even know her few years ago

misinformation and misleading is legit here lol

I don't even talk to Zemmi. But leave it to C4N and Solis to lie and gaslight again lol

 

[AL sama]

I don't even talk to Zemmi. But leave it to C4N and Solis to lie and gaslight again lol

man I laughed too hard

 

[Logiko]

I don't even talk to Zemmi. But leave it to C4N and Solis to lie and gaslight again lol

I don't care about your relationship with posters here. All I see is that you expect leftists to conform to your vision of pure activism, an idealistic vision. As a result, you fail to understand when I'm making low blows, even when they are perfectly legitimate and far from excessive.

This hyperfocus is common among people who criticize activism. By fixating on aspects of leftist actions that you believe don't align with your idealized vision, you convince yourself that those actions are extreme and therefore wrong.

But this vision doesn't come from you, it comes from a reactionnary place.

As reactionaries use the term 'self-righteous' to describe us. By pushing the idea that leftists are inherently self-righteous or morally superior, and by dictating what is not self-righteous behavior (for example, being disrespectful to them), they create the false narrative that leftists must never deviate from this supposed moral high ground, a limitation they themselves have imposed on us.

So when a leftist is legitimately disrespectful to a fascist enabler, they say: 'Look at them! They claim to be on the right side of history, they claim to be the good guys, but look how they aren't really self-righteous, they are in fact the real fascists!'

And people like you fall for that rhetoric and even readopt it.

This is exactly why, instead of moderating toxic and reactionary individuals, I'm the one being called toxic, by the mods, for calling out oppressive behavior.

It's in your interest, and here, it's systemic.